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If the S-12 was declared declared a DD would you NFA it?


If declared declared a DD would you NFA it?   

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  1. 1. If your S-12 were declared a DD would you NFA it?

    • Yes, i would go through the NFA paperwork to have my S-12
    • Yes, i would go through the NFA paperwork to have my S-12... but only if the $200 tax stamp was waived.
    • Yes, and since its now a DD, might as well make it a SBS
    • No, I would sell it because my state doesn't allow DD's
    • No, I would sell it because I don't want to deal with the hassels of the NFA
    • Willing to support a class action lawsuit against the ATF or other legal means to attempt going to the Supreme Court and having the sporting clause overruled
    • "Mr ATF I sold my saiga, these are not the guns you are looking for" aka buired/safehoused


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This is not about if they will but what would you do if they did. I'm curious to see what others would do if presented with a time-frame to either apply for the NFA, sell, or other. I guess parts kits would become cheaper to get a hold of, including a new barrel as a side effect.

Edited by Ignition
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Let's remember how both of those incidents started.   Waco: Occurs when the BATF decides to raid an apocalyptic cult based on very questionab;e evidence, even after it had been told that the cult ha

whoever the one guy who voted "No, I would sell it because I don't want to deal with the hassels of the NFA " doesnt deserve a S12

Thats cool....Your the one who is going to get your front door smashed in and your whole safe plundered when the gov goes completely socialist and burns the bill of rights. Your also the one who is go

When they DD the streetsweeper the gave a grandfather clause where you could register your gun you already owned for free I would think they would do the same thing for the S-12 and S-20.I hope they do I have a 20ga and 4 12ga's to reigster. Since the law reads any non-sporting weapon over the .50 cal bore is the desinated a DD at least the .410 will be good to go and I could see alot of new acc.for them come out if the S-12 and S-20 are DD'ed. I just wonder what the guys who live in non-DD states are going to do either there is going to be a flood of them for sale or they are going to have to cut the reicevers and there will be a lot of part kits for sale not to mention all the mags and acc.guy have for there S-12 that no longer can own them. I love my S-12's and what ever I have to do to keep them I will do some guys are buying them as a "investment" I have them because I LOVE THE SAIGA-12!!!!!!!!!!!!! and if something ever happens to one I can use one for parts if I ever have to to help keep it in the fight. Sorry if I went a little of topic.

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As a past owner of NFA items, I will say it is really no big deal. Once its done, its done. I never heard another word about my machine gun until I sold it and that was just re-doing the paperwork to get the new purchaser a stamp, which they do send to you, not the buyer. They don't care what you have as long as you pay the tax. They are simply a bureaucracy, albeit an unneeded, unconstitutional one, that shuffles paper. They will however arrest you if you don't pay the tax and kill you if you resist. I'll register mine and when it is time to sell it, recoup my investment 4 or more fold. No big deal in that respect. Is it right? No. Do I like the idea? No. Will I lose sleep? No.

Edited by Redemption
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When they DD the streetsweeper the gave a grandfather clause where you could register your gun you already owned for free I would think they would do the same thing for the S-12 and S-20.I hope they do I have a 20ga and 4 12ga's to reigster. Since the law reads any non-sporting weapon over the .50 cal bore is the desinated a DD at least the .410 will be good to go and I could see alot of new acc.for them come out if the S-12 and S-20 are DD'ed. I just wonder what the guys who live in non-DD states are going to do either there is going to be a flood of them for sale or they are going to have to cut the reicevers and there will be a lot of part kits for sale not to mention all the mags and acc.guy have for there S-12 that no longer can own them. I love my S-12's and what ever I have to do to keep them I will do some guys are buying them as a "investment" I have them because I LOVE THE SAIGA-12!!!!!!!!!!!!! and if something ever happens to one I can use one for parts if I ever have to to help keep it in the fight. Sorry if I went a little of topic.

If we can get them "grandfathered in" as DDs then we wouldn't need an SBS stamp, correct?

 

 

Bring on the DD declaration!

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If we can get them "grandfathered in" as DDs then we wouldn't need an SBS stamp, correct?

 

 

Bring on the DD declaration!

 

 

Yes if they get grandfathered the guns you own as of the date they set for the band will not cost you the $200 taxstamp fee you will still have to do all the paperwork and wait 4 months or so but they will not charge the $200. I hope that is what they do as of right now I will have 5 to register and thinking about buying another 20ga before may 1st if they make us all pay I may be going with the jedi mind trick option cause as of now I am up to $1000 in stamps if it happens. how it worked last time was say that june 1st becomes there ban date as of june 1st all s-12's sold as of that day will have to be sold by a class 3 dealer and pay a $200 taxstamp. all otther guns already in private owners hands have till dec.31st of that year to SUBMIT the proper paperwork to the ATF you don't have to be approved just have it in there hands by then if not your gun can no longer register the gun and it can not be sold (legally) and has to be destoryed(parts kit) if not you are in position of a illegal firearm witch equals 10years and $250,000.Now don't hold me to any of this but that is what happened last time. And as a DD you can have any barrel length you want.

Edited by SCHULTZE
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Can someone post a list of non DD states. All I do know is I am keeping my Saiga 12, period! I have waited too long and spent too much money to let our government take it away from me.

 

If you don't believe in your government at least believe in your country!

 

 

guntrustlawyer.com on the top of there page click on the state you want to know about and it will tell what you are alowwed to own in that state.

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It is very highly unlikely that it will be classified as DD. For the USAS and street-sweeper; there were only a handful of people who owned them. This is significant for two main reasons.

 

1) The atf wont be out on a lot of cash, because they only gave away free tax stamps and did free paperwork for just a few guns. If the saiga was DD then that would be a shit ton of man hours they would have to work for free to do all the paper work and superfluous BS for the many thousands of saiga owners.

 

2) No sane Saiga owner would keep his barrel at 19 inches. They would be introducing a MASSIVE amount of SBS's into the gun scene where they didnt exist before.

 

 

My money it betting that it will just be an import ban.

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Can someone post a list of non DD states. All I do know is I am keeping my Saiga 12, period! I have waited too long and spent too much money to let our government take it away from me.

 

If you don't believe in your government at least believe in your country!

 

 

guntrustlawyer.com on the top of there page click on the state you want to know about and it will tell what you are alowwed to own in that state.

 

thanks for the link man. apparently, i can own a DD in california. heh, i can also own a machine gun. thats hilarious!!

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Yeah was going to make it multiple voting options enabled... and then forgot to check the box and voted, now i cant change it : /

 

I voted multiple times... :unsure:

 

Yep, just re-checked, I voted for SBS and lawsuit...

Edited by Caged
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Yes if they get grandfathered the guns you own as of the date they set for the band will not cost you the $200 taxstamp fee you will still have to do all the paperwork and wait 4 months or so but they will not charge the $200. I hope that is what they do as of right now I will have 5 to register and thinking about buying another 20ga before may 1st if they make us all pay I may be going with the jedi mind trick option cause as of now I am up to $1000 in stamps if it happens. how it worked last time was say that june 1st becomes there ban date as of june 1st all s-12's sold as of that day will have to be sold by a class 3 dealer and pay a $200 taxstamp. all otther guns already in private owners hands have till dec.31st of that year to SUBMIT the proper paperwork to the ATF you don't have to be approved just have it in there hands by then if not your gun can no longer register the gun and it can not be sold (legally) and has to be destoryed(parts kit) if not you are in position of a illegal firearm witch equals 10years and $250,000.Now don't hold me to any of this but that is what happened last time. And as a DD you can have any barrel length you want.

I sold a couple of mine and really didn't plan on buying more. This puts a wrench in some other long term goals I had, but it really isn't a big deal. I hope it works out the way it did with the SS if they declare them DDs. Thank you for the education on the matter as I was just getting onto weapons when the SS thing happened.

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From my understanding, and I could be wrong, once its a "DD" its no longer considered a shotgun so length limits no longer limit you, on the flip side if your states have laws against SBS then you still might not be able to cut it down. (not legal advice)

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Never having gone through the process before, would the tax stamp just be a one-time fee?

 

At some point I'll have to look into the process, though if someone would like to shed some knowledge on my ignorant ass that'd be great, too.

It's one-time $200 charge. If it's owned individually the ATF will transfer it tax free to your heirs.

 

The only way to end up with a recurring charge is from the fees of a corporation/LLC if you have it owned by a corporation you control. I'd suggest either a trust or individual unless you know what you are doing, and have consulted a lawyer.

 

Essentially the process of buying an NFA item is you fill out a form, the dealer fills out his part, you get the police chief to sign, get fingerprints, write a $200 check and mail it. Then wait a few months. You can avoid the PD sign-off and the fingerprints via trust (or corp/LLC). The NFA forum has a lot more details.

 

But if the NFA retroactively changes status they have always in the past grandfathered any guns you own. So a free tax stamp. But you HAVE to file the paperwork by the deadline.

 

A decent overview of the whole NFA is the ATF NFA handbook. http://www.atf.gov/p...s/nfa-handbook/

Edited by KevinInNM
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I know in IN you can own a destructive device but cannot own a SBS..........not sure how it would work here.

 

Once it's a DD it's no longer a shotgun therefore no matter the barrel length, it could NEVER be a short-barreled shotgun because it's not a shotgun anymore.

 

It would technically be a Short Barreled-Destructive Device, which falls under DD...

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