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A contender for the S-12 could emerge - Akdal MKA 1919


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Nobody should expend any effort to try and convince anybody that anything is "sporting." That's a bullshit unconstitutional rule that some pussies cooked up to restrict gun rights by getting some of

Cali_Armz: Go with the Saiga .308, I highly recomend it! I have other .308's and my Saiga is my favorite. The AK platform outperforms other guns hands down. In my opinion.

Contender my ass, that gun ain't got shit on the S-12

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I'm sure the AR shotgun concept has been thrown around numerous manufacturers here in the States. Look at all the different caliber uppers (and lowers) there are. If it were feasible and reliable to market a shotty AR, I would imagine there would be several different brands available.

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Is it a gas impingement system? Or bolt operated?

 

Does anyone know?

Can you imagine the wad fouling and reliability issues with a Direct Impingement shotgun? One would think it's a piston system.

Edited by MT Predator
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I understood that it had been approved for import, but that was before the shotgun study hoopla. If they have heartburn with a regular imported Saiga, I don't see how they can let this in but I guess it doesn't have to make sense because the Guberment is involved.

It has been my understanding with those I have spoken to at the SHOT show that this was indeed aproved for import. I even rememeber having a link to give to prove that at one point(i'm not digging for it again).

 

The fact that at the same time this was approved the study came out makes a strong case for the S-12 NOT being banned. After all this is the gun that would require them to make the disctinction that a pistol grip is NOT a evil feature on a shotgun. And if that is the case we may very well see some of the greatest times ever as full flavor saigas that havn't been neautered come spilling into the US.

 

That said there is uncertainty in the fact that strife with the factory and importation is causing a huge hurdle for guns, and Sons of Guns is increasing knowledge of them and raising demand. I wholeheartedly believe that the days of sub $700 S-12s is gone. So much so that I am working on getting the 24" model I've been dreaming about making a duck gun out of for years now at the tune of $649.

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Nobody should expend any effort to try and convince anybody that anything is "sporting." That's a bullshit unconstitutional rule that some pussies cooked up to restrict gun rights by getting some of the namby-pamby gun owners to agree that 'nobody really needs a military firearm' as some kind of "reasonable compromise."

 

Now, we have more and more gun people trying to comply with that load of crap because it's the path of least resistance, and that amounts to tacit acceptance of it. Well fuck that shit, and that's where the next battleground is going to be if (or when) they decide that the S12 is "not sporting." The counter-argument should not be 'well it kinda is' but instead be 'what the fuck difference does it make bitch? Read the constitution.'

 

 

This is the best post I have read on this forum to date.

Edited by Bagelthief
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Looks like a 410 to me.....

Nope 12 GA all the way!

 

There is a lot more to Saiga 12s than just being a shotgun with a detachable magazine... and that's all this ugly thing looks to be.

 

Well, that and it looks to be a standard gas operated shotgun cross dressing as a AR15... ugh...

Hey there Mr. Saiga 12 purist, this is a pretty badass gun. Who wouldn't want the 2 most influential rifles in the world...IN 12GA!?!? It'd make a great addition to my exotic shotgun collection. A 12GA AK-47, and a 12GA "M-16." I get enough dropped jaws when I tell people about my Shotgun AK-47.

 

The Safir Arms T-14 is only available in .410 though, where as this is 12g. Do I think i would replace my s-12, hell no.

Who says it has to REPLACE the Saiga? Jesus, you can own more than one style of shotgun. So quick to snub out a competitor JUST cuz it's not your Saiga. Hell these are cool looking shotguns, who wouldn't want a dreaded "black gun" in 12GA?

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Looks like a 410 to me.....

Nope 12 GA all the way!

 

There is a lot more to Saiga 12s than just being a shotgun with a detachable magazine... and that's all this ugly thing looks to be.

 

Well, that and it looks to be a standard gas operated shotgun cross dressing as a AR15... ugh...

Hey there Mr. Saiga 12 purist, this is a pretty badass gun. Who wouldn't want the 2 most influential rifles in the world...IN 12GA!?!? It'd make a great addition to my exotic shotgun collection. A 12GA AK-47, and a 12GA "M-16." I get enough dropped jaws when I tell people about my Shotgun AK-47.

 

The Safir Arms T-14 is only available in .410 though, where as this is 12g. Do I think i would replace my s-12, hell no.

Who says it has to REPLACE the Saiga? Jesus, you can own more than one style of shotgun. So quick to snub out a competitor JUST cuz it's not your Saiga. Hell these are cool looking shotguns, who wouldn't want a dreaded "black gun" in 12GA?

 

I totally disagree, the Saiga 12 is in a class all it's own, and offers more personalizing. The thing looks like and AR.

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We're missing something here.

 

Saigas are imported into the U.S. in "sporting" configuration.

 

That shotgun in "AR" clothing is NOT. I doubt it would be imported unless it gets fitted with U.S. components to comply with 922r. If so, it would be like an Arsenal AK and will be priced like one.

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That Kel Tech gun looks interesting. Like a pump 12 in a bullpup kit....with dual tube mags. Too F'n pricey though! After all, it is still a pump.....

Agreed! I'm not spending more than $300 for a pump, sorry y'all. If the tag is over $500 it better be an autoloader or have fuckin' gold inlay! But I digress; I do not think that too many other autoloaders will come close to my Saiga.

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Safir produces the T-14 .410 upper for the Ar-15 and its not as regulated by the BATF since its an incomplete firearm in their eyes. If the engineering would work, import a 12 gauge upper for the Ar-10 series lowers that are plentiful here in the states.

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Hey there Mr. Saiga 12 purist, this is a pretty badass gun. Who wouldn't want the 2 most influential rifles in the world...IN 12GA!?!? It'd make a great addition to my exotic shotgun collection. A 12GA AK-47, and a 12GA "M-16." I get enough dropped jaws when I tell people about my Shotgun AK-47.

 

This thing is only dressed up like an M16... it's no more M16 than a 10/22 with an AR kit is. The S12 is an AK chambered it 12 gauge... there's no masquerading there. I'm hardly an S12 purist...its just that this thing just doesn't look very well designed.

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If the engineering would work, import a 12 gauge upper for the Ar-10 series lowers that are plentiful here in the states.

Yeah, I'd be up for that. I keep thinking about buying an LMT .308, and being able to put a 12 gauge upper on it would sell me. At least it would once I finish paying Visa for the 4 S-12s I bought this year.

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Hey there Mr. Saiga 12 purist, this is a pretty badass gun. Who wouldn't want the 2 most influential rifles in the world...IN 12GA!?!? It'd make a great addition to my exotic shotgun collection. A 12GA AK-47, and a 12GA "M-16." I get enough dropped jaws when I tell people about my Shotgun AK-47.

 

This thing is only dressed up like an M16... it's no more M16 than a 10/22 with an AR kit is. The S12 is an AK chambered it 12 gauge... there's no masquerading there. I'm hardly an S12 purist...its just that this thing just doesn't look very well designed.

Well put, good sir. I was under the impression that it had all the inner workings of an AR-15. How does it work internally if not like an AR?

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Hey there Mr. Saiga 12 purist, this is a pretty badass gun. Who wouldn't want the 2 most influential rifles in the world...IN 12GA!?!? It'd make a great addition to my exotic shotgun collection. A 12GA AK-47, and a 12GA "M-16." I get enough dropped jaws when I tell people about my Shotgun AK-47.

 

This thing is only dressed up like an M16... it's no more M16 than a 10/22 with an AR kit is. The S12 is an AK chambered it 12 gauge... there's no masquerading there. I'm hardly an S12 purist...its just that this thing just doesn't look very well designed.

Well put, good sir. I was under the impression that it had all the inner workings of an AR-15. How does it work internally if not like an AR?

 

Check out Doug's post at the top, he's actually handled one.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Talked to raa a bit more and the news on this thing is recoil is going to be up by 30 percent the gas system looks easy to clean and the barrel can be removed like an 870 and there will be a rifled barrel and it has lrbho the bad points are the lower reciver and stock are one piece. You also need two different mags for 2 3/4 and 3 inch

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post-23297-0-74854400-1304282696_thumb.jpg

Edited by kindapointless
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There is a lot more to Saiga 12s than just being a shotgun with a detachable magazine... and that's all this ugly thing looks to be.

 

Well, that and it looks to be a standard gas operated shotgun cross dressing as a AR15... ugh...

 

Dittto that. Of course I'm not an AR fan but I could guess those that are would like it.

Agreed. I didn't know that it was a standard gas powered dressed up as an AR. Now that I've looked at it closer, I can see that is the case, and I am unimpressed. Thanks for making sure I knew that before I tried importing one and wasting money!

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I'm sorry, but the first thing I thought when I saw the picture of the Akdal MKA1919 was "that is one REALLY ugly gun". I'm not buying a gun that ugly unless it can be fixed... and that parts breakdown doesn't give me confidence that it can be. It boggles my mind that foreign companies don't get that AR-15 or AK-47 furniture compatibility is a really big feature for "tactical" rifles these days. Yeah, the handguards probably aren't going to happen, but the stock and pistol grip are almost freebies.

 

The KSG might be somewhat expensive for a pump (albeit I think it'll retail ~$650), but at least it's bringing something new to the table (for the US market, anyways).

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There is a lot more to Saiga 12s than just being a shotgun with a detachable magazine... and that's all this ugly thing looks to be.

 

Well, that and it looks to be a standard gas operated shotgun cross dressing as a AR15... ugh...

 

Dittto that. Of course I'm not an AR fan but I could guess those that are would like it.

 

 

Still be worth having at least one though. I'd buy it just to have one. Hope they bring it on soon, the

more mag feed shotguns, the merrier. Hell, it should be fed law that every family has to own a mag fed 12 gauge as a requirement of American citizenship. Wouldn't that kick the anti-gunners in the ass.

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