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Do you trust your S-12


Would you trust your S-12 as a HD gun?  

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  1. 1. Would you trust it with your life?



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you shouldn't trust low brass with your life out of any gun.... unless you are defending yourself against birds dont use birdshot

I won't use mine for HD because it's in the safe when it's not on the range, but I have put so many rounds down the pipe that I'm 100% sure it will work when I need it to. For a Katrina type shelter

I'm not sure I trust my S-12. It seems a little shady to me. I could swear that it's stealing money out of my wallet all the time. It sure is a sneaky bastard.

Shit no. My Saiga is by far my favorite because of the SBS "cool" factor and how it looks. I have a lot of cool guns including a SMG but the S-12 is just too loud and unreliable. Of course I don't have but a couple hundred rounds through it. Perhaps in the future I might change my mind. :)

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Just for some insight, Im a BMW tech. What this has taught me is that making things complicated makes them less reliable. For this reason, my Mossy 500 will always be the gun I will reach for to defend my life.

 

Also, a couple of things I wanna ask about that were brought up in this thread.

My initial FTE's were from using buck and birdshot on setting 1.

Mine did this, too. First 3 rounds in my new gun and all FTE'd on gas setting 1. I switched it to gas setting 2 and OFF SHE WENT...which makes no sense since I just let LESS gas through. I havent turned back to 1 since, but is this normal? Will it work when I switch it back? I only put probably 50 rounds through it (all birdshot, shooting clays)

 

Also,

Assuming that you are past the break-in (at least 500 rds.)

 

Does it really take 500 rounds to break in?

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Just for some insight, Im a BMW tech. What this has taught me is that making things complicated makes them less reliable. For this reason, my Mossy 500 will always be the gun I will reach for to defend my life.

 

Also, a couple of things I wanna ask about that were brought up in this thread.

My initial FTE's were from using buck and birdshot on setting 1.

Mine did this, too. First 3 rounds in my new gun and all FTE'd on gas setting 1. I switched it to gas setting 2 and OFF SHE WENT...which makes no sense since I just let LESS gas through. I havent turned back to 1 since, but is this normal? Will it work when I switch it back? I only put probably 50 rounds through it (all birdshot, shooting clays)

 

Also,

Assuming that you are past the break-in (at least 500 rds.)

 

Does it really take 500 rounds to break in?

 

I may be wrong as I only own the iz-433 saiga 12 (no gas adjustment), but since there is more gas being let through, more force is being acted upon the carrier group. The carrier group is moving back much faster than what it would on the lower gas setting. Even though the return spring returns the carrier at the same rate at any gas setting, the overall rate of carrier movement (from in and out of battery) on the higher gas setting will be faster. So, with the higher gas setting, the shell does not have enough time to eject. (the lower gas setting will allow more time for the shell to eject)

 

This is just my hypothesis though, someone will come along and correct me!

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Ahhh yes, you are right. I didn't know what kind of malfunction you were having.

 

Sorry Broox.

 

I don't know why the bolt would not be moving on the higher gas. I would seem that he bolt would definitely move.

 

But to stay on topic, I would not trust my iz-433 yet, I don't have enough rounds through it (about 100) with no malfunctions with bulk bird shot and buck shot.

Edited by SLR
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Not yet. My 1911 is still my 1st choice.

However, once the bolt is re-profiled and it runs with 0 failures for looong rounds counts, then it probably will be my 1st choice.

Right now I have it on the 2 setting even with higher velocity shells just for insurance.

Edited by devoid
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Depends which one you mean.

 

 

Saiga-12s.jpg

 

 

The converted one runs like a sewing machine, now that it's been polished. It prefers factory and SGM mags. MD drums run fine too, though they are cumbersome and tend to rattle a little, when loaded. Almost the only way I can induce FTFs or FTEs are to use super light Winchester bulk loads, rapid fire from the hip with a gas plug set to 1 or less. For any defensive load, she's GTG.

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Id probably stick to my 870s for that. I know it chicken shit but i wouldnt want to explain to a jury why i needed a saiga to protect myself. Im sure at least some of the jurors would consider me a kook for having one let alone shooting someone with it. Now if it were my only gun i wouldnt hesitate as id rather be in court then be dead but ive got a pile of other guns to take care of the real bussiness. the saiga to me is just a fun gun.

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Assuming that you are past the break-in (at least 500 rds.) and have fixed any factory mistakes, would you trust your S-12 as your primary HD gun. This is not about what gun you use as a HD gun only a question about would you trust it with your life. I understand the pros and cons of a long gun as a HD gun, so lets not make it about that, only about your confidence in the reliability of your S-12. If you were to grab it rite now and load a factory mag or MD20 would you be willing to bet your life that it would be able to defend your family?

 

How long is "long"?

My S12 compared to a Parker double barrel:

2012-06-10_10-20-21_219.jpg

 

But what about these: Benelli M4 and vintage Winchester 1200 Marine

2012-06-10_10-17-04_558.jpg

 

...or these: Cobray Streetsweeper and MP40

2012-06-10_10-14-26_90.jpg

 

Yes I would trust my S12 to defend my home (given the OP's conditions). With the side folder and shortened barrel I feel it is an ideal length for HD. With any semi automatic or fully automatic weapon, there always a chance of malfunction, period...could be ammo related too, not necessarily the firearm. I've learned over the years that certain automatics simply don't function well with certain type bullets...so if anything, make damn sure your S12 is loaded with the most reliable ammo when it's beside your bed!

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Out of the box? Hmmm... nah. Way too clunky. It cycled buckshot and slugs ok. So I guess it was reliable. But I could feel the bcg doing the sideways run into shit butterfly dance each way back and forth. Thought it was gonna shimmy itself apart. It felt like someone poured rocks in a wasr.

 

After cleaning things up. Shooting a few hundred rounds through it. The vplug, CSS Puck. I'd pick it over my 870.

 

Yeah. I just said that. And if you knew me. You'd truly appreciate the gravity of that statement.

 

Fact is. It works 100% now. The recoil is nothing compared to a traditional shotgun. And the rate in which I or even a much smaller person can empty it is unparalleled. With experience and training a pump can be just as effective as a semi. While probably being more reliable, and easier to reload in a panic. Shell by shell if you had too.

 

But I've seen people short stroke a pump under stress.

 

I keep the saiga clean and its less to think about. Just pull the trigger. In an extremely stressful situation its faster and less to do. And it holds a bunch of ammo while keeping the weight closer to you than a tube fed shotgun.

 

 

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I wouldn't own a gun I couldn't trust my life with. That being said, an S12 happens to be my primary HD weapon of choice over all the others.

 

Exactly right. If you can't trust the gun to go bang every time then it isn't worth owning.

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it fired the last time I shot it. so yes, I would.

do i plan on throwing it in the mud and leaving it under a pile of sand for 3 months and not clean it, and still expect it to work as previously?

NO. That would be retarded.

 

BUT you could.

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Now that I have upgraded the trigger and got Cobra to polish the FCG, bolt & carrier. The S12 is my favorite. Even the Bennelli snobs like to shoot the old ugly Russian when I break her out at the range. They can't believe how smooth the trigger is. 100% confident.

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I trust mine. Had it out yesterday, and the last problem it had, rounds snagging on the extractor slot, has been fixed. She ran like a sewing machine with every thing from Wal-Mart Federal bulk bird shot, to Remington slugs and buck shot. Even the Pro-Mag 12rd drum impressed me.

 

That being said, my primary HD weapon is my AR-15 with 75gr TAP. I know this weapon system far better and am far more comfortable in its use, although I wouldn't feel sorry for my self if my S12 was the only thing I had at the time some kind of trouble started.

 

 

I am glad I am not a neighbor of yours!booo.gif I'd have to put 1/2" steel plate siding on the side of my house next to you to feel safe. I would trust my S-12 but there are much better options for HD. One is a Taurus Judge with 00Buck, I also keep a Beretta Tomcat and a Rossi Ranch Hand handy.000.gif

Edited by Palidin
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I totally trust mine, and do use it as my HD weapon, as a companion to my CCW 3" SA micro Compact .45 1911. That said, it is a far cry from the factory sporter shotgun that I brought home from the gun store. I've used the knowledge from hours of reading this site to restore it to the traditional AK format as well as fix all the factory shortcomings that it had. It now runs everything and everything I throw at it, which I do as often as I can. It fires fine from the hip, and with the folding stock and fore grip it's easy to maneuver throughout my house. I mostly shoot the cheapy bulk Federal bird shot, some of which I make wax slugs out of (tons of fun), but keep a mag full of 00 Buck on the ready.

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I use an AR-15 for home defense as well (among others)... 5.56 rarely penetrates brick. I would have no problems with my neighbor using one ESPECIALLY with TAP ammo! Since we are stating opinions, I feel that a Judge is a horrible home defense weapon unless you can influence the situation so that your target is within twelve feet of you... I prefer a more versatile weapon/load-out...

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