grimm100 13 Posted April 29, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 29, 2011 Jim, just had to trim down the front of the feed lips a smidge. Maybe 20 passes with flat, med-fine file. No mods at all to the rifle. Interdiction tab still intact. Wow. Amazing amount of variety in the manufacture of these rifles. Just curious, what year was your rifle made? (Usually indicated by the first two digits of the serial number after the H). 09 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
grimm100 13 Posted April 29, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 29, 2011 Well, no wonder I haven`t had any problems of any kind at all with my Saiga .223 ... I am using only Surefire magazines . Perfect reliability , and that is the way I want to keep it. somehow I really don`t get the argument of multyple different types of mags on a certain firearm ... My PSL only works with PSL magazines , my VZ58 only works with VZ58 magazines , my AR15 only work with AR15 magazines , so why will the Saiga be different ? This firearm comes designed to use Surefire type magazines and works perfect with them , so I use them . And it is true : many AK sites are full of stories of problems with bullet guides ... Why will I trow away reliability and piece of mind ? to save $15 or so on a magazine ? I just don`t see the angle. I don`t buy magazines every week . I have 7 Surefire mags , six are 30rds and one is 20 rrds . I get to the range and shoot 200 rds , all of them without a single hitch , then I pack up and go home . Seven mags are good enough for me and will last me a long, long time. If one ever gets bad I will just replace it. Sorry, guys , but that is how I see it. Josey, I agree on many of your points. Myself included have never had a hiccup with the surefire either. However, the thread was about "battle" type durability. The surefire mags from what I have read and by simply examining them are not "battle" type magazines. They fail to have reinforcement at any of the locking areas or spine. To me this a major flaw in the system. If its dropped, under a full load-out it is questionable whether or not is will survive. For me its been this struggle between letting go of the reliability of the surefire to introduce a more durable mag. It cant be that the BG causes so many problems or the so many people would not be running one. Take a look at the 223 PIC THREAD, most are not running surefires. As I said at the beginning of the post, ALL options are fine for a sunny day at the range. Question is, what if its not so sunny???? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jimdigriz 580 Posted April 29, 2011 Report Share Posted April 29, 2011 (edited) Well, no wonder I haven`t had any problems of any kind at all with my Saiga .223 ... I am using only Surefire magazines . Perfect reliability , and that is the way I want to keep it. somehow I really don`t get the argument of multyple different types of mags on a certain firearm ... My PSL only works with PSL magazines , my VZ58 only works with VZ58 magazines , my AR15 only work with AR15 magazines , so why will the Saiga be different ? This firearm comes designed to use Surefire type magazines and works perfect with them , so I use them . And it is true : many AK sites are full of stories of problems with bullet guides ... Why will I trow away reliability and piece of mind ? to save $15 or so on a magazine ? I just don`t see the angle. I don`t buy magazines every week . I have 7 Surefire mags , six are 30rds and one is 20 rrds . I get to the range and shoot 200 rds , all of them without a single hitch , then I pack up and go home . Seven mags are good enough for me and will last me a long, long time. If one ever gets bad I will just replace it. Sorry, guys , but that is how I see it. Every 223 mag for the Saiga needs a bullet guide, including the Surefires. Theirs are just built in to the mag. So this talk about bullet guides and reliability is a bit silly. The problems that people have with the various types of mags has to do with the (unfortunately) wide variances in manufacturing of these rifles. (I'll bet that even the Surefires are loose or too tight in some people's rifles). Once a person finds a milspec mag that works well in their rifle, they should probably focus on that mag type. I never had the slightest feed problems with Orlites or Circle 10s (even though the latter went in slightly crooked). I ended up getting rid of nearly all of my different types once I found I could get the Weigers to lock up perfectly tight, with no wobble or movement whatsoever. The Weigers cost about the same as the plasticky/flimsy/overpriced Surefires, but they are many times more rugged. And their reliability for me is %100. Edited April 30, 2011 by Jim Digriz Quote Link to post Share on other sites
grimm100 13 Posted April 30, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 30, 2011 Every 223 mag for the Saiga needs a bullet guide, including the Surefires. Theirs are just built in to the mag. So this talk about bullet guides and reliability is a bit silly. The problems that people have with the various types of mags has to do with the (unfortunately) wide variances in manufacturing of these rifles. (I'll bet that even the Surefires are loose or too tight in some people's rifles). Jim, good point. I hear that the 100 round beta drums by SGM for the 223 or too tight in many rifles. I am still going to do the guide. Worst comes to worst, I can always go back to no BG and Surefires, but I suspect this wont be the case. Just out of curiosity what other compliance parts are you using? I am sticking with the factory guard until I can press on a proper lower hand guard retainer. So in my case, I am swapping out the floor plates. Regards Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jimdigriz 580 Posted April 30, 2011 Report Share Posted April 30, 2011 Just out of curiosity what other compliance parts are you using? I am sticking with the factory guard until I can press on a proper lower hand guard retainer. So in my case, I am swapping out the floor plates. If you are using U.S. pistol grip, buttstock, and FCG, then by my count you don't need U.S. floor plates. I've got a K-Var stock set with a Dinzag retainer on mine. Currently using a Tapco G2 FCG, but will switch to RSA trigger when I can afford it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
grimm100 13 Posted April 30, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 30, 2011 Just out of curiosity what other compliance parts are you using? I am sticking with the factory guard until I can press on a proper lower hand guard retainer. So in my case, I am swapping out the floor plates. If you are using U.S. pistol grip, buttstock, and FCG, then by my count you don't need U.S. floor plates. I've got a K-Var stock set with a Dinzag retainer on mine. Currently using a Tapco G2 FCG, but will switch to RSA trigger when I can afford it. Really? I am using US pistol grip, k-var butt stock, and G2. The calculator I used say I need one more. Going to the sticky to root this out. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
grimm100 13 Posted April 30, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 30, 2011 Do I count the rear trunnion? If no then I am compliant. If yes then I am not complaint. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jimdigriz 580 Posted April 30, 2011 Report Share Posted April 30, 2011 Really? I am using US pistol grip, k-var butt stock, and G2. The calculator I used say I need one more. Going to the sticky to root this out. Did you use this one: http://jobson.us/922r/ Or the one for the "AK-47" (not Saiga). Comes out like I expected - 10 foreign parts exactly. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
grimm100 13 Posted April 30, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 30, 2011 Really? I am using US pistol grip, k-var butt stock, and G2. The calculator I used say I need one more. Going to the sticky to root this out. Did you use this one: http://jobson.us/922r/ Or the one for the "AK-47" (not Saiga). Comes out like I expected - 10 foreign parts exactly. I did use that one, but was selecting the rear trunnion as well. Woops! Guess I have a bag of extra floor plates. Thanks agian. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GregM1 241 Posted April 30, 2011 Report Share Posted April 30, 2011 (edited) strike that last comment. Edited April 30, 2011 by GregM1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jimdigriz 580 Posted April 30, 2011 Report Share Posted April 30, 2011 did you list a muzzle attachment for a point on your count? a flash hider adds 1 part to the count making 16. otherwise a converted saiga without an attachment only has 15. so you only need 5. I didn't bother, but all of my muzzle attachments are U.S. made anyhow. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mike-4 0 Posted May 6, 2011 Report Share Posted May 6, 2011 The best magazine for the saiga .223 is the USGI Military M16/AR15 magazine. Plain and simple. I'm new to the SAIGA in .223. At the risk of sounding stupid, is the post above valid? Can AR mags be used with a .223 Saiga or was the poster being sarcastic? Regards Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jimdigriz 580 Posted May 6, 2011 Report Share Posted May 6, 2011 (edited) The best magazine for the saiga .223 is the USGI Military M16/AR15 magazine. Plain and simple. I'm new to the SAIGA in .223. At the risk of sounding stupid, is the post above valid? Can AR mags be used with a .223 Saiga or was the poster being sarcastic? Regards There are 2 mag adapters available that allow use of AR mags in the Saiga. Not necessarily a terrible option, I guess, if you are awash in AR mags. I would say that the best mags available for the S223 are the Circle 10s and the Weigers. Both are very reliable and rugged. Edited May 6, 2011 by Jim Digriz Quote Link to post Share on other sites
grimm100 13 Posted July 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 24, 2011 OK, so its been a few months, some rifle mods and a new baby girl in the family but I finally got to the range this weekend. Prior, I installed the Dinzag flat 223 guide in about 15 minutes using a drill press to drill and tap (by hand of course). I modified 5 Bulgy Circle 10's and also took 3 unmodified steel surplus Galils. I ran 60 rounds consisting of M193, Remington 55 grain and Tula steel through each of the five Cirlce 10's. How did they function you wonder...PERFECTION! Not a hiccup of any sort. I wobbled front and back, side to side and between round and while firing. Ultimate reliability.The Galils however sucked. I could not get any to function. All rounds stove-piped on top of breach face as I expected since they did look like they were sitting kind of high in the mag well. Those will go, no time to fuss as the Cirlce 10's are doing there job. So there it is! I was nervous about doing the bullet guide and switching from Surefires to another mag type. Truth is, I am very happy I did. I see no point to run surefires anymore (for me at least). Bullet guide was easy and now I have 5 reliable, rugged military type mags that meet my "battle worthy" stipulations. Question is, what do I do with all my Surefire 30's????? -Grimm 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DrThunder88 912 Posted July 24, 2011 Report Share Posted July 24, 2011 Thanks for the update and congrats on the new addition! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
555JM 10 Posted July 25, 2011 Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 Where can I buy the Circle 10 magazines? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
grimm100 13 Posted July 27, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 27, 2011 Where can I buy the Circle 10 magazines? I got mine form K-var. Check out the differences between the smoke and the black. I could be wrong but it seems the smoke version doesn't have metal reinforcement to the extent the black version does. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DrThunder88 912 Posted July 27, 2011 Report Share Posted July 27, 2011 I've picked up a few of the black, steel-reinforced magazines from MidwayUSA. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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