chaos quad rail tech info

[cvhanh20 1,052]

You are welcome.

[fraserfab 0]

I am having this same problem. Fail to eject with top Titan rail on. Looking down the front the rail seems to be centered over the gas block so I don't think it is canted. I will not be drilling a hole in my rail. Just FYI it runs great with the top rail removed. I am using Winchester and Estate bulk.

 

Also the bottom rail is not parallel the barrel causing the hinged section being at a different angle that the front section. I have trimmed the rear hole to fit per instructions and there is not enough material there to fix the angle problem that way. I could take a die grinder to the rail, but would rather not. Is there any other way?

[cvhanh20 1,052]

I am having this same problem. Fail to eject with top Titan rail on. Looking down the front the rail seems to be centered over the gas block so I don't think it is canted. I will not be drilling a hole in my rail. Just FYI it runs great with the top rail removed. I am using Winchester and Estate bulk.

 

Also the bottom rail is not parallel the barrel causing the hinged section being at a different angle that the front section. I have trimmed the rear hole to fit per instructions and there is not enough material there to fix the angle problem that way. I could take a die grinder to the rail, but would rather not. Is there any other way?

Hi fraserfab and welcome to the forum. We have found over time through our customers, dealers, gunsmiths and our own experiences that FTE's after installing a Chaos rail are generally caused by one of two things. Either the weapon is very near FTE already and the rail is acting as a stiffing bar and amplifying the already near FTE or the shells are striking something upon exiting the chamber. In your case you need to get your rail setup on your weapon properly (rail parallel and rear rail locking down) that alone could be causing you FTE's. If your rail is not sitting parallel to the barrel that will have to be corrected. Material can be removed either from the gas block or the rail, FYI it is easier to alter the rail .To make sure you're rail is sitting parallel to the barrel use a straight edge resting on the center of bottom rail in line with the center of the barrel, then measure the distance between the straight edge and the barrel, it should not exceed over 1/16" in 8" If you have removed to much material from your back plate you can purchase a replacement back plate through our customer service. If you need more detailed help you can reach our tech support @ 812 250 4919 ext. 100 Monday through Friday 10 am - 4 pm CST

[fraserfab 0]

 

I am having this same problem. Fail to eject with top Titan rail on. Looking down the front the rail seems to be centered over the gas block so I don't think it is canted. I will not be drilling a hole in my rail. Just FYI it runs great with the top rail removed. I am using Winchester and Estate bulk.

 

Also the bottom rail is not parallel the barrel causing the hinged section being at a different angle that the front section. I have trimmed the rear hole to fit per instructions and there is not enough material there to fix the angle problem that way. I could take a die grinder to the rail, but would rather not. Is there any other way?

Hi fraserfab and welcome to the forum. We have found over time through our customers, dealers, gunsmiths and our own experiences that FTE's after installing a Chaos rail are generally caused by one of two things. Either the weapon is very near FTE already and the rail is acting as a stiffing bar and amplifying the already near FTE or the shells are striking something upon exiting the chamber. In your case you need to get your rail setup on your weapon properly (rail parallel and rear rail locking down) that alone could be causing you FTE's. If your rail is not sitting parallel to the barrel that will have to be corrected. Material can be removed either from the gas block or the rail, FYI it is easier to alter the rail .To make sure you're rail is sitting parallel to the barrel use a straight edge resting on the center of bottom rail in line with the center of the barrel, then measure the distance between the straight edge and the barrel, it should not exceed over 1/16" in 8" If you have removed to much material from your back plate you can purchase a replacement back plate through our customer service. If you need more detailed help you can reach our tech support @ 812 250 4919 ext. 100 Monday through Friday 10 am - 4 pm CST

 

Thanks Cameron, I will let you know how it goes.

[Penguin_Rapist_Lv.48 3]

Front bead sight intact. Normal?

I am getting FTEs with light loads but I've got it narrowed down to the new hammer should be re-profiled.

My gunsmith has put on a few Chaos rails & said he's never seen one that needed as much milling to align properly as mine (from CSS). Not complaining at all. Great, solid product.

Edited August 6, 2013 by Patrick Swayze

[lbsrdi 1,078]

Front bead sight intact. Normal?

I am getting FTEs with light loads but I've got it narrowed down to the new hammer should be re-profiled.

My gunsmith has put on a few Chaos rails & said he's never seen one that needed as much milling to align properly as mine (from CSS). Not complaining at all. Great, solid product.

I would say it is the gun not the rail. I would assume that all the rails are the same.

[Penguin_Rapist_Lv.48 3]

I would assume so as well, loose tolerances & what-not.. much looser than Chaos' products I'm sure.

but I haven't found a clear picture showing the typical clearance of the rail - gas block anywhere. I was told my front bead sight would be removed but it's in there. So I was wondering if my fit is decent or is it riding high?

[cvhanh20 1,052]

Our rail hasn't changed in sizing. We hold our rails with in .003 to .005

[MegamanX 65]

Any more news on the saiga 7.62 titan extended rail?

[Penguin_Rapist_Lv.48 3]

Our rail hasn't changed in sizing. We hold our rails with in .003 to .005

 

Again, I wasn't disputing rail specs. I haven't found a clear picture showing the typical clearance of the rail - gas block anywhere. I was told my front bead sight would need to be removed but it's in there. So I was wondering if my fit is decent or is it riding high?

 

Thank you, Mr. Hadley for producing top-notch quality products.

[MegamanX 65]

lucky. I had to remove my front bead but oh wells. the titan was a permanent addition anyways.

[Penguin_Rapist_Lv.48 3]

lucky. I had to remove my front bead but oh wells. the titan was a permanent addition anyways.

I wouldn't describe it as lucky as I never plan on using it again, and I'm never planning on taking the titan off other than maybe an annual cleaning.

 

Does yours have the same gap as mine pictued above or does your rail sit lower?

 

 

Im curious as to how my rail is attached with the front bead intact. Why & how? Local gunsmith said he's never seen a chaos extended quad or titan rail that didn't require the bead be removed.

[MegamanX 65]

Mines at the shop right now currently awaiting my parts from pauly to get sent back. I expect I have awhile still but ill take pics one I get them back. Shouldnt be too much longer I'd hope

[cvhanh20 1,052]

There is no need of removing the front sight as there is a relief cut to clear the front sight! If you have to remove your front sight bead cause it is hitting that's means your gas block is severely canted.

[cvhanh20 1,052]

 

Our rail hasn't changed in sizing. We hold our rails with in .003 to .005

Again, I wasn't disputing rail specs. I haven't found a clear picture showing the typical clearance of the rail - gas block anywhere. I was told my front bead sight would need to be removed but it's in there. So I was wondering if my fit is decent or is it riding high?

 

 

Thank you, Mr. Hadley for producing top-notch quality products.

 

These rails are design to go on without removing your front sight, so what your seeing in normal.

[fraserfab 0]

 

I am having this same problem. Fail to eject with top Titan rail on. Looking down the front the rail seems to be centered over the gas block so I don't think it is canted. I will not be drilling a hole in my rail. Just FYI it runs great with the top rail removed. I am using Winchester and Estate bulk.

 

Also the bottom rail is not parallel the barrel causing the hinged section being at a different angle that the front section. I have trimmed the rear hole to fit per instructions and there is not enough material there to fix the angle problem that way. I could take a die grinder to the rail, but would rather not. Is there any other way?

Hi fraserfab and welcome to the forum. We have found over time through our customers, dealers, gunsmiths and our own experiences that FTE's after installing a Chaos rail are generally caused by one of two things. Either the weapon is very near FTE already and the rail is acting as a stiffing bar and amplifying the already near FTE or the shells are striking something upon exiting the chamber. In your case you need to get your rail setup on your weapon properly (rail parallel and rear rail locking down) that alone could be causing you FTE's. If your rail is not sitting parallel to the barrel that will have to be corrected. Material can be removed either from the gas block or the rail, FYI it is easier to alter the rail .To make sure you're rail is sitting parallel to the barrel use a straight edge resting on the center of bottom rail in line with the center of the barrel, then measure the distance between the straight edge and the barrel, it should not exceed over 1/16" in 8" If you have removed to much material from your back plate you can purchase a replacement back plate through our customer service. If you need more detailed help you can reach our tech support @ 812 250 4919 ext. 100 Monday through Friday 10 am - 4 pm CST

 

 

 

 

 

 

Cameron,

 

Thank you for your advise, I decided to remove material from the gas block to level the bottom rail section to the barrel. It is very close to being perfectly true. After that I decided to sand down the rails where the bolt rides down to 600 grit and then blued them. After these small modifications the gun seems to be running great! I went out to the range this weekend and put 150 rounds Winchester bulk downrange, and I only had 2 failure to ejects. In my mind it is still not perfect, but I think the effects of installing the rail have been nullified.

 

Now that the system is working as it should, I will need to order some of your HK style sights for the rail. Along with the sights I will need a couple of the nylon tipped set screws for the dust cover. In testing I did not want to loctite anything until I knew the gun was functioning correctly. Unfortunately I lost both side screws. Do you have replacements available?

[MegamanX 65]

There is no need of removing the front sight as there is a relief cut to clear the front sight! If you have to remove your front sight bead cause it is hitting that's means your gas block is severely canted.

 

I'm going to have the shop look into this when they test it out after i get my internals back.

[cvhanh20 1,052]

 

 

I am having this same problem. Fail to eject with top Titan rail on. Looking down the front the rail seems to be centered over the gas block so I don't think it is canted. I will not be drilling a hole in my rail. Just FYI it runs great with the top rail removed. I am using Winchester and Estate bulk.

 

Also the bottom rail is not parallel the barrel causing the hinged section being at a different angle that the front section. I have trimmed the rear hole to fit per instructions and there is not enough material there to fix the angle problem that way. I could take a die grinder to the rail, but would rather not. Is there any other way?

Hi fraserfab and welcome to the forum. We have found over time through our customers, dealers, gunsmiths and our own experiences that FTE's after installing a Chaos rail are generally caused by one of two things. Either the weapon is very near FTE already and the rail is acting as a stiffing bar and amplifying the already near FTE or the shells are striking something upon exiting the chamber. In your case you need to get your rail setup on your weapon properly (rail parallel and rear rail locking down) that alone could be causing you FTE's. If your rail is not sitting parallel to the barrel that will have to be corrected. Material can be removed either from the gas block or the rail, FYI it is easier to alter the rail .To make sure you're rail is sitting parallel to the barrel use a straight edge resting on the center of bottom rail in line with the center of the barrel, then measure the distance between the straight edge and the barrel, it should not exceed over 1/16" in 8" If you have removed to much material from your back plate you can purchase a replacement back plate through our customer service. If you need more detailed help you can reach our tech support @ 812 250 4919 ext. 100 Monday through Friday 10 am - 4 pm CST

 

Cameron,

 

Thank you for your advise, I decided to remove material from the gas block to level the bottom rail section to the barrel. It is very close to being perfectly true. After that I decided to sand down the rails where the bolt rides down to 600 grit and then blued them. After these small modifications the gun seems to be running great! I went out to the range this weekend and put 150 rounds Winchester bulk downrange, and I only had 2 failure to ejects. In my mind it is still not perfect, but I think the effects of installing the rail have been nullified.

 

Now that the system is working as it should, I will need to order some of your HK style sights for the rail. Along with the sights I will need a couple of the nylon tipped set screws for the dust cover. In testing I did not want to loctite anything until I knew the gun was functioning correctly. Unfortunately I lost both side screws. Do you have replacements available?

 

Yes we do, call customer support and they can get those shipping to you.

[sccritterkiller 473]

After reading the instructions and doing the needed filing and opening up the ports I finally got a chance to test...Worked great! Only issue I had is the hinge cover popped off the button during drum dumps. I think I need to do a little more filing and I should be GTG. I didn't want to remove too much the first time. I do love this titian rail. Thanks to all who replied to get me back on track.

[BatFr33k 1]

Having the same problem, ran my 4 port saiga (with oversized port job) today after having installed my sight and and magpul mbus. Fte with every shot (using federal bulk, which ran 100% reliably prior to rail installation). My gas block is at a perfect 90 degrees and rear sight has been removed. I'll use what I've gathered from this thread which seems to be loosening my set screws (the four that hold the top rail in place) and blue loctiting them. Then dry cycling shells by hand to see if they are striking the top rail (which I assume would be causing my fte's?) I'm a new member who is simply curious if this is the gist of the thread, or if there have been any new discoveries or trouble shooting tips to help me get my converted and modified s12 back to its 100% reliability. Thank you to any and all who might give some insight to a newcomer.

Edited October 1, 2013 by BatFr33k

[sccritterkiller 473]

Having the same problem, ran my 4 port saiga (with oversized port job) today after having installed my sight and and magpul mbus. Fte with every shot (using federal bulk, which ran 100% reliably prior to rail installation). My gas block is at a perfect 90 degrees and rear sight has been removed. I'll use what I've gathered from this thread which seems to be loosening my set screws (the four that hold the top rail in place) and blue loctiting them. Then dry cycling shells by hand to see if they are striking the top rail (which I assume would be causing my fte's?) I'm a new member who is simply curious if this is the gist of the thread, or if there have been any new discoveries or trouble shooting tips to help me get my converted and modified s12 back to its 100% reliability. Thank you to any and all who might give some insight to a newcomer.

Use a straight edge to make sure the rail is level all the way across you may have to file per the instructions...that was my issue. The back of the rail was binding on the dust cover button. Good luck !

[BatFr33k 1]

 

Having the same problem, ran my 4 port saiga (with oversized port job) today after having installed my sight and and magpul mbus. Fte with every shot (using federal bulk, which ran 100% reliably prior to rail installation). My gas block is at a perfect 90 degrees and rear sight has been removed. I'll use what I've gathered from this thread which seems to be loosening my set screws (the four that hold the top rail in place) and blue loctiting them. Then dry cycling shells by hand to see if they are striking the top rail (which I assume would be causing my fte's?) I'm a new member who is simply curious if this is the gist of the thread, or if there have been any new discoveries or trouble shooting tips to help me get my converted and modified s12 back to its 100% reliability. Thank you to any and all who might give some insight to a newcomer.

Use a straight edge to make sure the rail is level all the way across you may have to file per the instructions...that was my issue. The back of the rail was binding on the dust cover button. Good luck !

Thanks @sccritterkiller, I'll do that, I've filed the the opening so that the dust cover button can clear. But how much do I take off? Anywhere I might find the actual instructions? I purchased my hinged quad from CSS, and it came with none :/ Edited October 2, 2013 by BatFr33k

[BatFr33k 1]

Just found a PDF of instructions on chaosinc.com under support, I removed some more material, will try to test fire in the morning. I also plan on removing my eotech for the test, If it cycles fine then I'll reinstall it and test again.

[sccritterkiller 473]

Due to the wide design tolerances of this gun the amount of material to remove will vary from gun to gun. I removed enough to get both sides of the rail level and then just a little more so the button was not in a bind. I suggest remove a little, test, remove a little more if needed and test. You don't want to remove so much that the top set screw won't work.

Edited October 2, 2013 by sccritterkiller

[BatFr33k 1]

Thanks bud, gonna test fire tomorrow. Does your saiga run fed low brass with th rail installed? And just out of curiosity do you have a sight on your rail?

[sccritterkiller 473]

Just HK sights but it runs wallyword bulk no problem. I have also done some minor polishing of the internals...nothing crazy. Just enough to remove paint from the rails and carrier guides. A little on the hammer as well. Just enough to smooth everything out. I did not remove a lot of material.

Edited October 3, 2013 by sccritterkiller

[BatFr33k 1]

I've done a full bolt/carrier and fcg glass bolt job, and I'm running magpul flip up sights, could the weight of a holographic sight be part of the issue. I'm about to test fire, so I reckon we'll see! Lol

[BatFr33k 1]

Finally! Ran her today and did 250 rounds no problem! So pleased, I can finally (after 3 years) called my s12 a completed build. Thanks to all who've helped!!

[sccritterkiller 473]

Good deal! Glad you got her runnin...work with the sight installed? Don't forget to add a little of the blue loctite to rail screws now that she is running. They will loosen up after a while.

[rome5982 0]

This thread was very helpful to me.  I had 100% FTE and the reason was due to the red dot optic I had above the ejection area.  The shells were rubbing the optic base just enough to hamper ejection.  I relocated the optic to the forward rail and the gun is starting to cycle with low power shells.  Will cycle 75% of the time now before either a FTE of a FTF.  I am using a V plug on setting 5.  I need to do the polishing and check the ports (I think one of the four is partially covered).