Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
P lang

chaos quad rail tech info

Recommended Posts

You can use the crush washers, or just loosen the screws a little and add a dab of blue loctite. It will be common if you over tighten any rail.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So i confirmed its not just chaos rails. its all quad rails. I went over to a buddys house. We between us have 4 ak varients and 4 different quad rails. I had a similar issue in the past and wanted to confirm if it was a common issue.

 

Over tightening the top rail on the bottom over the gas block will def cause you failure to feeds as it pushes down on the gas tube.

 

We tested this by going out and shooting all of them and switch quad rails on each one to see if it was a common issue.

 

The issue is simply over torquing the 4 screws. Dont do that lol. problem solved. If your hesitant then get some small washers like previously mentioned.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This just doesnt make sense to me. Looking at this quadrail, the top half isn't even touching the gas tube, or the gas block. (Which I hear is the problem with the UTG rails) It doesnt appear to touch ANYTHING except the bottom tri rail, but for some reason having it on causes the malfunctions, but when I take it off and just leave the tri rail, it fires without flaw. When you say to put on the crush washers, you mean just under the screws like in this pic? I'll give it a shot, but I cannot see how it could possibly make a difference.

 

By the way, even before putting these washers on, I wasn't overtightening. The screws have always been snug, but not tight. And don't really like the idea of leaving all the screws loose, barely holding their position to compensate, if thats the idea.

 

-Also, in the 2nd pic showing from the front, you can see the space between the gas block and the rail is different. I guess this shows that the threads under the gas block are not perfectly perpedicular to the gas block (twisted)

post-38686-0-66956500-1372219195_thumb.jpg

post-38686-0-59096900-1372219423_thumb.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Its making contact somewhere or something is getting blocked when you install it.

 

I know it doesn't relate but i had to remove my rear sight to install my chaos rail properly.

Edited by MegamanX

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I also wonder about the set screws on the dust cover...I had to torque the top one down pretty good to get the rear hk sight on. I should have some time this weekend for some testing. I will report back any results.

 

My original rear sight has been removed for the rail install. So that's not the issue.

Edited by sccritterkiller

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok! I got to the range and did some firing today. No good news. I tried firing with the crush washers on, and it didnt seem to make a difference. I tried again and put some fresh new crush washers on, and this time only tightened the screws down until I started feeling ANY resistance whatsoever. They were on very loose, hardly on at all. Still, I had FTEs about every 5 shots. After test firing a bit, the screws had unscrewed themselves even more since there was almost no torque holding them in the first place.

 

I had a Burris Fastfire III red dot on the back of the top rail. (which is about as tiny and lightweight as an optic gets) For the sake of science, I took it off and tried firing again. Suddenly my S12 was working with the top rail on. I shot 2, 5 round mags no problem, then even burned through a 20 round drum without any malfunctions! I put the red dot back on and started having FTEs again every 5-7 rounds. Theres always the possibility this could have been a crazy chance occurence, but it seemed pretty consistent to me, and I only had about 125 rounds to test with. I took the red dot off again, and continued to fire several rounds without FTEs, and tried pushing my thumb down on top of the rail where my optic was, while firing, to see if I could replicate the malfunction by putting pressure (weight) where the optic usually was, but this didnt seem to do anything as it continued to shoot without problems. Maybe having the red dot there does just enough to tweak the harmonics to cause problems. If having the top rail on makes me ride the line of dependability so close, that putting a tiny lightwight red dot puts me into constant FTEs, thats not okay with me.

 

So my conclusion from my experience thus far, is that the top piece of the extended rail will not cause problems as long as there isnt anything on it. Which kinda makes the rail pointless. I know many others have not had issues with chaos products, and I know its pretty difficult to make something that will work an ALL saigas when izhmash has such shitty quality and consistency control. Maybe mine just doesn't want to get along.

 

I think I am going to keep the tri rail on, and probably get a receiver side optic mount. Unless someone else has any suggestions?

post-38686-0-34082400-1372361987_thumb.jpg

Edited by Turbo.M777

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I also wonder about the set screws on the dust cover...I had to torque the top one down pretty good to get the rear hk sight on. I should have some time this weekend for some testing. I will report back any results.

 

My original rear sight has been removed for the rail install. So that's not the issue.

The top rear nylon tipped set screw should not be setting so high that you can't mount your rear sight. Check to see if you have your rear top rail plane level is set to your front top rail, if not your screw will stick through.

Ok! I got to the range and did some firing today. No good news. I tried firing with the crush washers on, and it didnt seem to make a difference. I tried again and put some fresh new crush washers on, and this time only tightened the screws down until I started feeling ANY resistance whatsoever. They were on very loose, hardly on at all. Still, I had FTEs about every 5 shots. After test firing a bit, the screws had unscrewed themselves even more since there was almost no torque holding them in the first place.

 

I had a Burris Fastfire III red dot on the back of the top rail. (which is about as tiny and lightweight as an optic gets) For the sake of science, I took it off and tried firing again. Suddenly my S12 was working with the top rail on. I shot 2, 5 round mags no problem, then even burned through a 20 round drum without any malfunctions! I put the red dot back on and started having FTEs again every 5-7 rounds. Theres always the possibility this could have been a crazy chance occurence, but it seemed pretty consistent to me, and I only had about 125 rounds to test with. I took the red dot off again, and continued to fire several rounds without FTEs, and tried pushing my thumb down on top of the rail where my optic was, while firing, to see if I could replicate the malfunction by putting pressure (weight) where the optic usually was, but this didnt seem to do anything as it continued to shoot without problems. Maybe having the red dot there does just enough to tweak the harmonics to cause problems. If having the top rail on makes me ride the line of dependability so close, that putting a tiny lightwight red dot puts me into constant FTEs, thats not okay with me.

 

So my conclusion from my experience thus far, is that the top piece of the extended rail will not cause problems as long as there isnt anything on it. Which kinda makes the rail pointless. I know many others have not had issues with chaos products, and I know its pretty difficult to make something that will work an ALL saigas when izhmash has such shitty quality and consistency control. Maybe mine just doesn't want to get along.

 

I think I am going to keep the tri rail on, and probably get a receiver side optic mount. Unless someone else has any suggestions?

PM inbound.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Based on these forums, its pretty apparent to me that just about EVERYONE who gets one, has a problem with UTG rails, because they put pressure on top of the gas system. CHAOS rails on the other hand do not even touch the top of the gas tube or gas block. You can also tell at a glance chaos rails are much higher quality. Customer service with Chaos has impressed me so far. Heard a lot of stories to the contrary with UTG.

Edited by Turbo.M777
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Also, with the extended rail depending on where you mount your optic. You can have it shell deflection off your sight base. Move er up a bit or mover er back.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I had some time to test this weekend. The washer suggestion made no difference in the cycling issue. After I tested that I was struggling to find the problem so I folded the dust cover cover portion of the rail up and secured it and test fired....ran five rounds from the hip no issues. Haven't had time to study it since then but it appears the extended portion that covers the dust cover is causing the issues? Any suggestions would be appreciated.

 

I got the set screw issues fixed, it's ran down and still doesn't touch the dust cover.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Also, with the extended rail depending on where you mount your optic. You can have it shell deflection off your sight base. Move er up a bit or mover er back.

 

I think thats what my issue is! The screw does stick out a bit. I cycled some ammo by hand with and without the sight on, and playing back in slo mo, you can see the rounds hitting the knob. I'll adjust, and run a bunch of cheap shit through my gun when I have another chance to see if for sure this is all thats causing grief. Here's vid of the slo mo if yall want to see it. (I talk til about 0:55 if you want to skip that) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAIKt_ZAW30

Edited by Turbo.M777

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I had some time to test this weekend. The washer suggestion made no difference in the cycling issue. After I tested that I was struggling to find the problem so I folded the dust cover cover portion of the rail up and secured it and test fired....ran five rounds from the hip no issues. Haven't had time to study it since then but it appears the extended portion that covers the dust cover is causing the issues? Any suggestions would be appreciated.

 

I got the set screw issues fixed, it's ran down and still doesn't touch the dust cover.

All the rear nylon screws need to touch, if you can not get there you may have removed to much metal from the back plate opening.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I haven't removed any metal from the back plate opening. I took it out of the box and put it on. Could that be the issue? Do I need to? It does take some effort to get it over the dust cover button.

Edited by sccritterkiller

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I see...I usually consider instructions another mans opinion on how to do something..LOL

Usually when all else fails I do read the instructions but for some reason I skipped that step this time. I checked the sight plain after installation and it was level..but I guess its binding everthing up getting it on. Thanks to all for getting me back on track! Its alway good to be reminded of the basics. I will post up results when I get this thing running again.

Edited by sccritterkiller

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just recently purchased a Chaos rail... had a bunch of questions Cameron quickly answered all of them... He was polite and helpful, just like he has been in this thread trying to help solve the problems the user is having.... I feel like the response you see is one created from defending his product... I would not hesitate to deal with him again..

 

But even with all that said even if you think he is the biggest jerk in the world.. who are you punishing by not using a quality product? I use Larue stuff and people constantly bitch and moan about them being assholes... never had a bad experience there either...

 

the reality is if you make something.. and you do a good job at it... there will always be people to take jabs and make digs... if you let an emotional response to those digs sway you from buying a quality product I would consider that foolish... you are picking a rail for a gun.. not signing up for internet dating... you dont have to like the guy one bit..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Let me clear the air! Business man or not, if provoked I'm going to go to bat, I don't allow people to take cheap shots at me or my company. We manufacture top quality products because we are aggressive in nature. If those of you think I should hold my arms to the side and let someone swing on me then by all means buy the other guys crap. I have the right to defend myself and my product jealously against would be attackers and I will. If some people view this behavior too abrasive perhaps you should go join the kitty cat club. This is a gun forum, and we are all a little rough around the edges. If this offends you I do apologize as I did not realize I was on the view.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I want to address people drilling a vent hole through the side of their rail. If your gas block is canted closer to the rail where it vents, to the point you are drilling a vent hole to relieve gas, you have a bigger problem. A gas block canted to that extreme needs repaired. You do not need to drill any holes in your rail! We have ran thousands of rounds down our company guns without fail. In many cases people are able to install and go, but remember you are customizing your weapon when adding a rail. Keeping this in mind, there are many factors that can come into play causing FTE as shown by this thread. As in Turbo.M777 case where his sight had a very large knob in the way of his injection port, good call on TAC 47 part.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

+1 most

people that own their businesses are very passionate about product or services in which they produce and sell we all have short fuse when people talk about our product negatively.

 

iam in artist in sign graphics business. so understand Cameron is artist with metal and products

are quality the problems lie in in manufacture gun not the rails "chaos" anyway.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Truth is it's the forum that loses out here and the dedicated members. Many top vendors avoid posting anymore because of this behavior that has been growing in popularity. We don't have to come here and interact with people, we choose too! It's our way to give back, and the last thing we need are a bunch of kiddies needing attention as we are trying to do our job. I did notice that most the people mouthing off in this thread have a very low post count! My question is this, you've got like 50 post and you know everything about anyone here, really! Kinda reminds me of Obama taking office.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I had this thread unlocked to address other people who maybe having issues with FTE's after installing a Chaos rail, please stay on task, no more drama, thank you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

Tromix - Lead Delivery Systems
Dinzag Arms
CHAOS, Inc
Mississippi Auto Arms, Inc
Cobra's Custom
Carolina Shooters Supply
R & R Targets
LONE STAR ARMS
SGM Tactical
Mach 1 Arsenal
K-VAR
C&S Metall-Werkes
American Specialty Ammo
Csspecs Magazines
Phoenix Technology
Evlutionz LLC


  • Chatbox

    Load More
    You don't have permission to chat.
×