gripnS12 0 Posted April 20, 2011 Report Share Posted April 20, 2011 I have had my saiga 12 converted for quite some time now. I decided its time for some real work to be done. I have a few questions, before it happens: I currently have the Tromix DIY trigger guard...but am looking to go in a different direction. Are there any other weld on options besides this same tromix style? Thinking about the RAM trigger welded on..and removing the grip mount in favor of the grip nut/screw. Perhaps the AK builder trigger guard, but welding instead of the rivets? Any options or opinions on this method? Going with the Left hand charging handle as well. Im having trouble deciding what to use, as im keeping the factory handle intact. Should I just order a factory op rod, and cut it down to use? Any options or opinions on this? Another thing, is removing the factory scope mount. If I understand correctly...there is a pin, or rivet that has to be intact and welded.. correct? (the rear most pin?) Lastly (I think ) If I order the Saiga 12 HK sight set....its all there and ready to go correct? Just a matter of drilling a couple holes in the dust cover and spot welding...correct? Did you guys do anything with your factory dovetail? Thinking about having it welded up as well.. Thanks for all your help S12 community! Love this site! And yes, after its all said and done......there will be pics and a range report. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sapper1371usmc 107 Posted April 21, 2011 Report Share Posted April 21, 2011 Why are you so dead set on welding the trigger guard? If it was me I would use an AK builder trigger guard, riveted in place. Rivets are imo the best way to go as that is the way it is meant to be done, there isnt a chance of screwing up the surrounding metal with heat, and rivets are easily replaceble if a repair/change is ever needed. I too would go the grip nut/screw combo and possibly add a reinforcement plate. I would use a chopped down piston for the left side charging handle. Yes, when you remove the scope rail, the last rivet closest to the stock, is the one you are worried about. It also secures the rear trunion. Ive seen guys that if they were careful they could reuse the rivet that was already there, or just replace it and start new. Again I wouldnt weld. See thread about cracked reciever several threads down. Welding heats up the surrounding metal causing the area to become brittle. The rear trunion can take a beating and having a rivet with a little give here in there would be better and have less chance of permanent damage. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sapper1371usmc 107 Posted April 21, 2011 Report Share Posted April 21, 2011 Oh and on the HK sights, make sure that when installing the front sight, that you move it far enough back (closer to the reciever) that you clear the threads in the gas block so that the concentrated heat doesnt warp the block or damage the threads. I would also keep the gas plug screwed in tight just in case. For the rear sight, Ive seen guys tig from beneath by drilling and spot-welding, or by welding the outside to the top cover. While your at it, I would try to eliminate all side to side, front to back play as possible, to help maintain zero. You can add a band of metal around the lower portion of the top cover to take up slack for the front to back movement. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sapper1371usmc 107 Posted April 21, 2011 Report Share Posted April 21, 2011 And one last thing, I wouldnt bother welding up the old trigger guard pins either. Just use the hole plugs from lowes or wherever you can find 3/16" nylon hole plugs, They look just like rivets and no chance of screwing up the reciever. Again, just my opinion. Your gun, do what you want and have fun. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shades_of_grey 1,092 Posted April 21, 2011 Report Share Posted April 21, 2011 Why are you so dead set on welding the trigger guard? If it was me I would use an AK builder trigger guard, riveted in place. Rivets are imo the best way to go as that is the way it is meant to be done, there isnt a chance of screwing up the surrounding metal with heat, and rivets are easily replaceble if a repair/change is ever needed. I too would go the grip nut/screw combo and possibly add a reinforcement plate... +1. This is good advice. Welding on a part like that is all downside, with no advantages. The Russians rivet the trigger guard etc. to the receiver, (and always have), for a reason... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gripnS12 0 Posted April 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 23, 2011 (edited) Thanks for the input fellas. I am "dead set" on welding, mostly because I have easier access to a master TIG welder than someone to smash some rivets. Im kind of surprised to see these responses, being some of the major builders do this daily. All that being said...I have a guy that has more experience in TIG than I have been on this earth. I have full confidence in him, and if he thought it was a bad idea...he would have said GTFO I did get all of my parts... The rear HK sight mount is pretty rough on the bottom/edges...as they came "modified" to fit the 12. So I may have him run a bead down both sides instead of spot welding...to hide the mess. If he advises against this, I may just have to live with it. Not a huge deal. I did get an op rod, and he will mill it down...and run it as the LH CH. Question for the gurus: The tromix rear plate, does it weld to the outside edge on the rear? I was kinda under the impression it fits on the inside of the rear? The rear of the reciever looks to be angled, and I noticed my old bolt in ACE block is "shimmed" for the offset. Do I basically mill the back of the receiver to be "flat"? When I dry fit, the ACE stock appears straight (plate on outside)....but I want to be 100% sure. Again, thanks for the help guys. Great site! Edit: Forgot to mention, ill definitely get some pics up after for those interested. I have a few thousand rounds thru the old conversion...the new setup will be run thru the paces real well this summer. Edited April 23, 2011 by gripnS12 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lbsrdi 1,078 Posted May 20, 2011 Report Share Posted May 20, 2011 Care to post your pics? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
evlblkwpnz 3,418 Posted May 20, 2011 Report Share Posted May 20, 2011 When you said "Real work" I thought you meant you were installing an AK100 stock.... carry on. Rivet the trigger guard on there. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
datrowl 111 Posted May 20, 2011 Report Share Posted May 20, 2011 If I personally was gonna weld one on, it would be the Saigatech trigger guard, Might eyeball one and see what you think. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gripnS12 0 Posted May 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 20, 2011 (edited) When you said "Real work" I thought you meant you were installing an AK100 stock.... carry on. Rivet the trigger guard on there. ohh burnn Anyway. For those interested. Heres some crappy pics! It isnt done yet, but I couldnt resist spraying and assembly to try it out for a while. So far, its a whole new animal and im loving it. (auto plug not pictured) Edit:Forgot to mention...I was hesitant about the new kvar handguard and retainer..but they are quality pieces. Very tight fitting. Now to get a short rail stuck on the retainer "leg"... Edited May 20, 2011 by gripnS12 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
evlblkwpnz 3,418 Posted May 20, 2011 Report Share Posted May 20, 2011 Nice job on the trigger guard. I have always preferred the look of a standard AK trigger guard on these. Did you rivet? For a more reliable setup (if you didn't rivet), you may want to fasten the rear of the trigger guard with a screw (10-32?) in addition to the weld. If the welded rear breaks loose.... you are shut down. From my experience.... I had one welded-on factory trigger guard break just above the weld and had one of the old version Tromix DIY units bend while the weapon was fired with a standard grip on it (the new DIY are thicker and probably will not bend under these circumstances). I also, had an overhardened Bulgarian unit from KVar break while work was being done to it. I didn't get to see it happen, so I'm not exactly sure how much force it took. I have never seen a properly hardened and attached traditional AK guard bend or break under firing. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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