shades_of_grey 1,092 Posted May 1, 2011 Report Share Posted May 1, 2011 (edited) Here's a nice little "feature" of the KSG that'd be a deal-breaker for me by itself: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPFw5Py1oY4&feature=related They better address this before they start trying to sell these for ~$880 MSRP. Edited May 1, 2011 by post-apocalyptic Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AtlSaiga 25 Posted May 1, 2011 Report Share Posted May 1, 2011 wow, I like the nutnfancy vids. totally hooked, those guys are hilarious. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The_Caged_Bird 474 Posted May 1, 2011 Report Share Posted May 1, 2011 Here's a nice little "feature" of the KSG that'd be a deal-breaker for me by itself: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPFw5Py1oY4&feature=related They better address this before they start trying to sell these for ~$880 MSRP. That's a deal breaker here. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shades_of_grey 1,092 Posted May 1, 2011 Report Share Posted May 1, 2011 (edited) Tbh, I was a little shocked when I first saw that clip.. how could Kel-Tec not have already noticed, but more importantly fixed this design problem before unveiling this as a "finished product" at the SHOT Show?! If it is "working as intended".. well that's an even bigger problem. Edited May 1, 2011 by post-apocalyptic Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jimdigriz 580 Posted May 1, 2011 Report Share Posted May 1, 2011 Tbh, I was a little shocked when I first saw that clip.. how could Kel-Tec not have already noticed, but more importantly fixed this design problem before unveiling this as a "finished product" at the SHOT Show?! In their defense, I don't believe they intended to unveil it as a finished product, but as a demo. I hear that they've made several changes as a result of the Shot Show. Probably this is already fixed. It was kind of an amazing oversight though. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rhettdean3@charter.net 5 Posted May 2, 2011 Report Share Posted May 2, 2011 And that is exactly why I would wait to purchase one, let alone use it for my HD gun. There will always be 'bugs' to work out of new products, especially ones that are complete redesigns. That is why manufacturers have recalls. It is near impossible to catch every flaw in R&D, so they release it to the public and adopt a 'wait and see' attitude. This is fact no matter what kind of product you are talking about- guns, prescription medication, cars, TVs, etc. That is why I would wait a year for them to work out the 'kinks' before buying one. Open up any new gun publication and you will find a recall on Remington rifles that use .17 HMR. There is also a recall on .45 ACP ammo produced by Federal. This type of thing is more commonplace than you would think nowadays. Trust me, I work for GM. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
fauxknight 30 Posted May 2, 2011 Report Share Posted May 2, 2011 I hear that they've made several changes as a result of the Shot Show. Probably this is already fixed. They did, they even put out a video showing this specific issue corrected. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
22_Shooter 1,560 Posted May 2, 2011 Report Share Posted May 2, 2011 (edited) Here's a nice little "feature" of the KSG that'd be a deal-breaker for me by itself: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPFw5Py1oY4&feature=related They better address this before they start trying to sell these for ~$880 MSRP. Someone posted a video of a Kel-Tec rep who was showcasing the newest version of the KSG. They have addressed and fixed this problem. At the very least, they're listening to what people are saying and pointing out and making the necessary to changes to what will end up in the buyers' hands. I think the thread with the video was in GD. I'll go and try to find it. EDIT: Herp derp. I replied to your post before reading the others, and now see that what I said was already pointed out. I'll still try to find the thread, though. EDIT #2: Here's the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W638QRLqUyc&feature=player_embedded Edited May 2, 2011 by -Shooter- Quote Link to post Share on other sites
daughertym 15 Posted May 5, 2011 Report Share Posted May 5, 2011 (edited) I love this gun! I will keep my Saiga, but this will be a great house gun and back-up if it turns out to be as good as the 870 or Mossberg. I fell in love with it because it reminds me of the HALO dual-tube shotgun. Edited May 5, 2011 by BigD45 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shades_of_grey 1,092 Posted May 5, 2011 Report Share Posted May 5, 2011 The Halo shotgun has two barrels, not two tubes. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GREYLUPO 358 Posted May 5, 2011 Report Share Posted May 5, 2011 I love this gun! I will keep my Saiga, but this will be a great house gun and back-up if it turns out to be as good as the 870 or Mossberg. I fell in love with it because it reminds me of the HALO dual-tube shotgun. It only has 50 years of duty use to catch up too! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shades_of_grey 1,092 Posted May 5, 2011 Report Share Posted May 5, 2011 (edited) I just watched the rest of the nutnfancy vid, (through part 4), and I was really struck by how much Chad from Kel-Tec seemed to admire the Saiga-12 they had with em. The particular gun they used is a fairly heavy one, (extended quad-rail etc), and they were using it near the end of the day with a MD-20 only, (no stick mags), so they kept commenting on the weight. Chad remarked "If you could get this down to 8 lbs...", and the guy who actually owned the S-12 immediately said, "You can". I think Chad may buy himself a S-12. Imo, the KSG looks ok but not that impressive.. those manual tube "switch overs" seemed to take everybody by suprise and throw em off their rhythm. Hell, nutnfancy got a better course time with his Winchester 1300, (which didn't suprise me ). Edited May 5, 2011 by post-apocalyptic Quote Link to post Share on other sites
erwos 12 Posted May 5, 2011 Report Share Posted May 5, 2011 The proposed solution to the KSG tube switching issue is to load in a 3" round at the end of each tube (which supposedly it can do and keep 7+7). That way, you'll have a VERY noticeable indicator that you need to flip that switch. I suspect the ergonomics will still be awkward (having the switch underneath the gun and away from your hands is not exactly optimal), but it'll definitely reduce the number of dry fires. Of course, Kel-Tec has to understand what a huge selling point an alternating feed system would be, so I rather expect we'll see it... someday. Anyways, back to the video: the course seemed to be designed for pumps, so the S12 didn't really get a chance to show off its rapid-fire capability. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sian 14 Posted May 5, 2011 Report Share Posted May 5, 2011 The proposed solution to the KSG tube switching issue is to load in a 3" round at the end of each tube (which supposedly it can do and keep 7+7). That way, you'll have a VERY noticeable indicator that you need to flip that switch. I suspect the ergonomics will still be awkward (having the switch underneath the gun and away from your hands is not exactly optimal), but it'll definitely reduce the number of dry fires. Been keeping up on Kel-Tec's KSG forums, It's proposed that user-modding for auto-switch shouldn't be too difficult. It would just require replacing the switch body and the followers in each tube. Alternating feed might be possible by simply changing the switch body. We just won't know till they're on the street and people start machining on it a bit. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
poolingmyignorance 2,191 Posted May 6, 2011 Report Share Posted May 6, 2011 The KSG looks cool yes it's more compact, but it's going to be slower than the s12, period. It's an apples and organges comparison. Once all the issues are worked out as others have said, it definately has potential to be prominate pump action HD weapon. That said with the option of folding stocks, high capactiy mags (maybe some double stacked 20's in the future, will be a great improvment over the cumberson drum) giving it ability to quickly reload, whats left to compare, price? At $800 MSRP, it doesn't stand a chance unless the ban actualy happens., in that case too bad for the folks who didn't get their s12s' already. ? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GREYLUPO 358 Posted May 6, 2011 Report Share Posted May 6, 2011 Its cool but when it comes to guns I stick with whats been proven and works and not what looks cool for mall ninja types. If you want a pump gun, stick with Remington or Mossberg. Police and Military around the world use them for a reason. Do you really think any kind of professional will choose a first run Kel Tech shotgun over a Remington or Mossberg FOCK NO!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shades_of_grey 1,092 Posted May 6, 2011 Report Share Posted May 6, 2011 (edited) Look, you need a bullpup double-tube pump shotgun if you're gonna stand a chance against the neo-Nazis ambushing you with full-auto Tec 9s over by the Orange Julius. You'd know that if you were a serious private security operative who'd personally saved the anal virginity of the Mayor's son from the deviant predators of the mall bathroom! Edited May 6, 2011 by post-apocalyptic Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Marc 147 Posted May 6, 2011 Report Share Posted May 6, 2011 LOLZ @ Gecko45 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chaseface 41 Posted May 6, 2011 Report Share Posted May 6, 2011 I bought a Saiga12 from PFI dude about a month ago Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chaseface 41 Posted May 6, 2011 Report Share Posted May 6, 2011 Look, you need a bullpup double-tube pump shotgun if you're gonna stand a chance against the neo-Nazis ambushing you with full-auto Tec 9s over by the Orange Julius. You'd know that if you were a serious private security operative who'd personally saved the anal virginity of the Mayor's son from the deviant predators of the mall bathroom! Dont you hate when your removing the ductape from the trauma plate you have stuck to your back and you rip out your back hairs? But hey, thats the price you have to pay to protect yourself from multiple .308 shots to the back Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shades_of_grey 1,092 Posted May 6, 2011 Report Share Posted May 6, 2011 (edited) Look, you need a bullpup double-tube pump shotgun if you're gonna stand a chance against the neo-Nazis ambushing you with full-auto Tec 9s over by the Orange Julius. You'd know that if you were a serious private security operative who'd personally saved the anal virginity of the Mayor's son from the deviant predators of the mall bathroom! Dont you hate when your removing the ductape from the trauma plate you have stuck to your back and you rip out your back hairs? But hey, thats the price you have to pay to protect yourself from multiple .308 shots to the back My brother-in-high-speed-black-ops-retail-security, soon I won't have to worry about those Yakuza snipers in the food court. Hesse is building me a custom extreme tactical exoskeleton so I can carry my GAU-8 Avenger on patrol. Just gotta keep an eye out for the Chechens. They carry RPG-7s and aren't afraid to use em. I'll need a custom forcefield system like the one on my Ninja AK-47. Edited May 6, 2011 by post-apocalyptic Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Heath_h49008 442 Posted May 7, 2011 Report Share Posted May 7, 2011 I so miss Gecko45... meta-humor is too rare. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
yooper14.5 84 Posted May 7, 2011 Report Share Posted May 7, 2011 Look, you need a bullpup double-tube pump shotgun if you're gonna stand a chance against the neo-Nazis ambushing you with full-auto Tec 9s over by the Orange Julius. You'd know that if you were a serious private security operative who'd personally saved the anal virginity of the Mayor's son from the deviant predators of the mall bathroom! Dont you hate when your removing the ductape from the trauma plate you have stuck to your back and you rip out your back hairs? But hey, thats the price you have to pay to protect yourself from multiple .308 shots to the back My brother-in-high-speed-black-ops-retail-security, soon I won't have to worry about those Yakuza snipers in the food court. Hesse is building me a custom extreme tactical exoskeleton so I can carry my GAU-8 Avenger on patrol. Just gotta keep an eye out for the Chechens. They carry RPG-7s and aren't afraid to use em. I'll need a custom forcefield system like the one on my Ninja AK-47. that GAU-8 is a work of art. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted May 7, 2011 Report Share Posted May 7, 2011 (edited) The only thing that I see that makes this shotgun different than any other American-made shotgun is the higher capacity. You can put extension tubes on other shotguns, but they still do not hold as much as the Kel-tec. But, when it comes to capacity, the Saiga still wins. What about reloading both of those tubes? Nowhere near as fast as swapping magazines/ drums in a Saiga. I have to agree with some of you that it is an innovative design, and it is things like this that motivate other new designs to compete. That is something that I believe is needed from American shotgun manufacturers. Why should we have to limit ourselves to a foreign made shotgun that is restricted by ridiculous regulations? American shotgun manufacturers have pretty much been sitting on their duffs for the past century. IMHO, there hasn't been any significant technological achievements in shotgun design since the Saiga. Other than that .410 AR (which is foreign made), there isn't any other shotgun that has a detachable magazine. Kudos to Kel-tec for thinking outside of the box. Yeah, but I wouln't give Kel-Tec credit for original thinking. This gun makes me think of that South African shotgun with the reverse pump. It seems like an improved version of that. I wonder if patents relating to that gun are the 'legal reasons' that prevent the tubes from auto selecting? I think I would love to have one kicking around the deck of our boat in Alaska. The best gun is the one you will have with you, and there isn't a lot in the way with that Kel-tec. I agree with all that stuff said above about practicing semi, and relying on pump. We have seen that they can be equally reliable, so let's get the best functioning gun and use it everywhere. Maybe Keltec will succeed in this market and then follow up with a semi. That would be great. I think the s12 is great and probably the best right now, but the safety is clumsy, rock'n'lock was out dated in the 1950's, and there is a bunch of empty space in the reciever that could be trimmed down into a slimmer more compact lighter gun. I'm all for more innovation. Edited May 7, 2011 by GunFun Quote Link to post Share on other sites
wally 2 Posted May 7, 2011 Report Share Posted May 7, 2011 Ive HAD a keltec pistol and it sucked hard,this shoty looks like a hashed mossberg bullpup from the 80s-90s,cost is to high,looks like shit and I bet the action is rough and like all keltecs WAAAAAAAY to much plastic just my 02 cents Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mosher111 1 Posted July 14, 2011 Report Share Posted July 14, 2011 (edited) Ill stick to my Saiga. The Keltec is something new and I really like the dual shell chambers allowing for use of two different types of nition and be able to switch between the two. Edited July 14, 2011 by The Dude Abides Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ewoketeer 35 Posted July 14, 2011 Report Share Posted July 14, 2011 (edited) Look, you need a bullpup double-tube pump shotgun if you're gonna stand a chance against the neo-Nazis ambushing you with full-auto Tec 9s over by the Orange Julius. You'd know that if you were a serious private security operative who'd personally saved the anal virginity of the Mayor's son from the deviant predators of the mall bathroom! Dont you hate when your removing the ductape from the trauma plate you have stuck to your back and you rip out your back hairs? But hey, thats the price you have to pay to protect yourself from multiple .308 shots to the back My brother-in-high-speed-black-ops-retail-security, soon I won't have to worry about those Yakuza snipers in the food court. Hesse is building me a custom extreme tactical exoskeleton so I can carry my GAU-8 Avenger on patrol. Just gotta keep an eye out for the Chechens. They carry RPG-7s and aren't afraid to use em. I'll need a custom forcefield system like the one on my Ninja AK-47. that GAU-8 is a work of art. It's definitely a work of art. I worked on them for 2 years '81-'83 with 81TFW. They're waaaay more reliable than the M61 20mm's, but if you're not killing tanks or vampires (ASM's) they're hard to carry under your jacket As far as rounds count goes, either have someone else cover while you're reloading or have a New York Reload (2nd gun) handy Edited July 14, 2011 by EWOKETEER Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GREYLUPO 358 Posted July 14, 2011 Report Share Posted July 14, 2011 Sorry, but I dont like the keltech. For pump shotguns Ill stick with what has been proven in police and military forces worldwide for decades, Remington and Mossberg. Screw that keltech shotgun, and screw that mallninja king nutnfancy. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ewoketeer 35 Posted July 14, 2011 Report Share Posted July 14, 2011 It would be interesting to see the KSG modified to accept a detachable box magazine, of the now-defunct Knoxx Industries type.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Scott Kenny 144 Posted July 14, 2011 Report Share Posted July 14, 2011 I'll keep my eyes on the KSG, and I'd definitely suggest they make an auto once they get the bugs worked out of the pump. The ability to have breachers or other exotics in one tube and shot in the other is really useful for full-on military/police work. Think I'd still rather run a Saiga for real, though. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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