JonnyDingDongs 158 Posted May 1, 2011 Report Share Posted May 1, 2011 (edited) Well, I'm selling my Thompson and using some tax money towards my very first AR-15. I had one hell of a time trying to decide on what manufacturer to go with, but I finally settled on a Rock River Arms 'Tactical Operator 2.' I know a lot of guys shy away from buying a complete gun and build their own, but I've never even fired an AR, let alone assembled one. It's been described as, "Stupid easy," but when it comes to my little projects, Murphy's Law is immutable and I didn't feel confident in my abilities. That's not to say that the "Built, not bought" mentality doesn't appeal to me, though. I even priced the parts list several times, but after the "Bells and whistles," I was looking at $1200-$1500 for a decent DIY. So I said screw it and ordered one of these: My link They've got a sale going right now for $1000 with free shipping, and my FFL got dealer cost on it (a whole $60 off, but hey- that took care of taxes!) I was really excited until he got off the phone with RRA. 60-90 day wait time for production. I've never waited more than a week to get a gun in!! I hung out at the shop for nearly two hours before deciding to go ahead with the order. Then I ordered some fun stuff the other night: An engraved ejection port door "Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum," the Magpul B.A.D. lever, and a couple of PMAGs. So all in all, I've got about $1100 wrapped up in her. What do you guys think?? Good deal, bad deal, meah..? Also, any advice for the first-time AR owner would be greatly appreciated! Edited May 1, 2011 by JonnyDingDongs 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
slostang 80 Posted May 1, 2011 Report Share Posted May 1, 2011 Cant go wrong with Rock River... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Marrok857 51 Posted May 1, 2011 Report Share Posted May 1, 2011 (edited) I love the choice for the engraving. "If you wish for peace, prepare for war" I think it seems like a fair price for a nice AR, then again iam not an AR guy. Edited May 1, 2011 by Marrok Quote Link to post Share on other sites
volkov 318 Posted May 1, 2011 Report Share Posted May 1, 2011 Was in the same boat (first AR, wanted to build one).. Went with a spikes, spent a couple hundred less than you- seems to do everything an AR should. Was going to build myself but a local gunstore had a good deal with spike and I got it at a nice price. Not a fan of spiders though, my one complaint. I like it much better then my friends bushmaster and about the same as another friends 1970s colt (havn't shot a modern one). I bought it the same week as my WASR-3 and they both hit the range at the same time.. The AR performed well, but I did have a FTF on the first round that was a BITCH to clear.. Not a bad rifle but the WASR-3 really won in my opinion, especially with it's 300 dollars price tag. Accuracy was comparable- I really want to do a real range test for comparisson though, I was kind of just having fun and the wasr's sight was a bit canted and the AR's a bit low. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Shandlanos 1,470 Posted May 3, 2011 Report Share Posted May 3, 2011 I was planning on building my first AR. Bought the lower, and the low parts kit, assembled the lower, and was shopping around for parts for the upper when a deal came up, picked up an almost-new DPMS 20" with a fixed stock for $650. Sold my assembled lower, and all of a sudden had a complete rifle that was pretty much exactly what I wanted. So... What sort of Thompson are you selling, and is it already gone? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Deadeye 325 Posted May 4, 2011 Report Share Posted May 4, 2011 what do people think of the S&W mp ar and what are the worth my brother is trying to get me to trade him for my new stock saiga 12. wondering if is is worth it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JonnyDingDongs 158 Posted May 4, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 4, 2011 (edited) Slostang- I still have yet to hear anything negative about RRA products. It's almost disconcerting not hearing something bad about my choice. Marrok- Thanks! I've only seen one engraved ejection port door on a gun before and it really dressed it up, at least IMO. Volkov- I remember reading your post about that, but couldn't find it the other day for the life of me. So the WASR-3 kind of won so far? Where is that post at? I'm interested to see how your next range test goes. Shandlanos- I've been waiting to run across something like that for a couple years now, but no luck. I've still got the Thompson because I waaaaaay overpaid for it. No matter what, I'm losing my ass- it's just a matter of how bad now. It's a West Hurley M1 semi-auto with the 16" barrel, and I even have the violin case w/drum mag cut-out. I bought it, lightly used (very lightly- still had factory oil throughout the reciever,) from a local shop four years ago for $1,300+tax. I had to drop a little over $200 into parts about a month ago. My thread on that endeavor I had four different people look at it, handle it, make googly-eyes at it, and tell me that my $1,100 asking price was, "More than [they] want to spend right now," last Saturday. Did you ever find the rest of those parts you were needing for yours? Deadeye- I haven't heard any range reports on them, but I did handle a couple while trying to decide on mine. Not 100% on it, but I believe my local shop wanted $850 for them. They seemed nice for the money, but they were pretty much bone stock with standard handguards and a flat-top receiver. Personally, I'd hang on to the S-12, but then I'm pretty much in love with mine so it's not an unbiased opinion... And a couple additional things- I also handled an all carbon fiber Bushmaster while I was at the shop. Maybe I've been under a rock, but I'd never seen one before. Even the upper receiver was carbon fiber and it had a little red dot scope on the flat-top for $750. Did not care for that thing at all. Hell, the shop's owner kind of shrugged and said, "Eh, thought I'd try it out." Amazingly, that thing sold about a week after he got it in. And apparently my link to the RRA page did not work? Edit: Realized that RRA is not a contributor on this forum, so my link would be a violation of the rules, would it not? I figure it's easy enough just to google "RRA Tactical Operator 2" if you're interested in seeing my new toy. Only 5-ish weeks to go..! Edited May 6, 2011 by JonnyDingDongs Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Deadeye 325 Posted May 4, 2011 Report Share Posted May 4, 2011 Deadeye- I haven't heard any range reports on them, but I did handle a couple while trying to decide on mine. Not 100% on it, but I believe my local shop wanted $850 for them. They seemed nice for the money, but they were pretty much bone stock with standard handguards and a flat-top receiver. Personally, I'd hang on to the S-12, but then I'm pretty much in love with mine so it's not an unbiased opinion... Yea I am in love with mine as well. That is the problem my brother is in love too and wants it real bad his ar has nice red dot 3 or 4 mags sling case and a fiew extras probably a 1300 to 1400 value. I think I will keep the s12 I dont realy care fo ar's. and s12 are going up in value every day. so he will have to make a better offer or just get his own s12 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
7N6Wolf 61 Posted May 5, 2011 Report Share Posted May 5, 2011 I have heard good things about the Rock River AR's, but I have decided to go down the route of building an AR-15 with a mishmash of parts. I just need to get a buffer tube assembly, a butt-stock, and a rear sight to finish my build. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
volkov 318 Posted May 5, 2011 Report Share Posted May 5, 2011 (edited) Slostang- I still have yet to hear anything negative about RRA products. It's almost disconcerting not hearing something bad about my choice. Marrok- Thanks! I've only seen one engraved ejection port door on a gun before and it really dressed it up, at least IMO. Volkov- I remember reading your post about that, but couldn't find it the other day for the life of me. So the WASR-3 kind of won so far? Where is that post at? I'm interested to see how your next range test goes. Shandlanos- I've been waiting to run across something like that for a couple years now, but no luck. I've still got the Thompson because I waaaaaay overpaid for it. No matter what, I'm losing my ass- it's just a matter of how bad now. It's a West Hurley M1 semi-auto with the 16" barrel, and I even have the violin case w/drum mag cut-out. I bought it, lightly used (very lightly- still had factory oil throughout the reciever,) from a local shop four years ago for $1,300+tax. I had to drop a little over $200 into parts about a month ago. My thread on that endeavor I had four different people look at it, handle it, make googly-eyes at it, and tell me that my $1,100 asking price was, "More than [they] want to spend right now," last Saturday. Did you ever find the rest of those parts you were needing for yours? Deadeye- I haven't heard any range reports on them, but I did handle a couple while trying to decide on mine. Not 100% on it, but I believe my local shop wanted $850 for them. They seemed nice for the money, but they were pretty much bone stock with standard handguards and a flat-top receiver. Personally, I'd hang on to the S-12, but then I'm pretty much in love with mine so it's not an unbiased opinion... And a couple additional things- I also handled an all carbon fiber Bushmaster while I was at the shop. Maybe I've been under a rock, but I'd never seen one before. Even the upper receiver was carbon fiber and it had a little red dot scope on the flat-top for $750. Did not care for that thing at all. Hell, the shop's owner kind of shrugged and said, "Eh, thought I'd try it out." Amazingly, that thing sold about a week after he got it in. And apparently my link to the RRA page did not work? 2nd Attempt Yeah, hoping to do it fairly soon before it gets too hot out here (don't shoot as well when the gun is soaked in sweat). I'm planning on using the same scope for both rifles just to take the iron sight factor out of it to test the guns specifically.. I'm sure the AR will win accuracy, but I really don't think it will be significant enough to justify 300$ vs 950$. Btw, anyone know a good place to get the typical military style handguards (durable is preferable to cheap). I don't like the magpul one the rifle came with. Edited May 5, 2011 by volkov Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JonnyDingDongs 158 Posted May 6, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 6, 2011 I have heard good things about the Rock River AR's, but I have decided to go down the route of building an AR-15 with a mishmash of parts. I just need to get a buffer tube assembly, a butt-stock, and a rear sight to finish my build. Which manufacturer did you go with for your receivers? Did you go with parts kits or piece-at-a-time? Yeah, hoping to do it fairly soon before it gets too hot out here (don't shoot as well when the gun is soaked in sweat). I'm planning on using the same scope for both rifles just to take the iron sight factor out of it to test the guns specifically.. I'm sure the AR will win accuracy, but I really don't think it will be significant enough to justify 300$ vs 950$. Btw, anyone know a good place to get the typical military style handguards (durable is preferable to cheap). I don't like the magpul one the rifle came with. Yeah, probably not- that's quite a difference. I'm starting to wish I'd just gotten a .223 Saiga and converted the thing... Huh, thought I'd look around for you, and here you stumped me. I figured standard handguards would be all over the damned place. Quad-rails out the wazoo, but I only found a handful on a couple of sites. CTD had one made by The Mako Group for about $14, and Midway had DPMS, Model 1, and UTG ranging from $15-30. Not that I particularly trust any of those brands. However, I'm sure a ton of guys have swapped out their standard guards for free-float, quad-rail, and other 'tacticool' models, so there's bound to be an abundance of barely used ones for sale out there. Took a quick look through the WTS/WTT on here and didn't see any on the first page. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
volkov 318 Posted May 6, 2011 Report Share Posted May 6, 2011 I have heard good things about the Rock River AR's, but I have decided to go down the route of building an AR-15 with a mishmash of parts. I just need to get a buffer tube assembly, a butt-stock, and a rear sight to finish my build. Which manufacturer did you go with for your receivers? Did you go with parts kits or piece-at-a-time? Yeah, hoping to do it fairly soon before it gets too hot out here (don't shoot as well when the gun is soaked in sweat). I'm planning on using the same scope for both rifles just to take the iron sight factor out of it to test the guns specifically.. I'm sure the AR will win accuracy, but I really don't think it will be significant enough to justify 300$ vs 950$. Btw, anyone know a good place to get the typical military style handguards (durable is preferable to cheap). I don't like the magpul one the rifle came with. Yeah, probably not- that's quite a difference. I'm starting to wish I'd just gotten a .223 Saiga and converted the thing... Huh, thought I'd look around for you, and here you stumped me. I figured standard handguards would be all over the damned place. Quad-rails out the wazoo, but I only found a handful on a couple of sites. CTD had one made by The Mako Group for about $14, and Midway had DPMS, Model 1, and UTG ranging from $15-30. Not that I particularly trust any of those brands. However, I'm sure a ton of guys have swapped out their standard guards for free-float, quad-rail, and other 'tacticool' models, so there's bound to be an abundance of barely used ones for sale out there. Took a quick look through the WTS/WTT on here and didn't see any on the first page. yeah, I've run into the same issues.. typical google search didn't turn up much (and my go to forum sponsers didn't either!).. Unless I want a 300 dollar quad rail.. Which I dont, my gun don't need 100 attachments on the forearm. Don't want UTG either, maybe for the wrong reason, but I refuse to have an airsoft brand on my rifle if I can avoid it so leapers and UTG is a no go- regardless of how good a product they've been known to produce. My rifle is a rifle, not an airsoft toy. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kevin.rose0@gmail.com 62 Posted May 7, 2011 Report Share Posted May 7, 2011 what do people think of the S&W mp ar and what are the worth my brother is trying to get me to trade him for my new stock saiga 12. wondering if is is worth it. I've got a pair of S&W M&P15Rs. They go bang every time. Seem well put together. Warranty is only a year, but I never needed it. Original batch of M&P15s was made by Stag IIRC, not sure who makes them currently. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bpipe95 8 Posted May 7, 2011 Report Share Posted May 7, 2011 Midwest and YHM both make 2 piece quad rails that are made to replace the GI handguards. Both are just over $100. Midwest also has an awesome 2peice free float rail that you remove the delta ring to atach. It is a bit more than the above units. You have the right idea, Chinese garbage has no place on an AR, or a siaga for that matter. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bpipe95 8 Posted May 7, 2011 Report Share Posted May 7, 2011 what do people think of the S&W mp ar and what are the worth my brother is trying to get me to trade him for my new stock saiga 12. wondering if is is worth it. I've got a pair of S&W M&P15Rs. They go bang every time. Seem well put together. Warranty is only a year, but I never needed it. Original batch of M&P15s was made by Stag IIRC, not sure who makes them currently. There are not many of the stag made M&P's out there, if you find one buy it as the second contractor leaves allot to be desired. IMO Stags are the best sub $1000 gun on the market hands down. They also have the best basic stripped lowers out there, so many brands have such sloppy fit and and soft anodizing now, stags are still fantastic. RRA are hit and miss sometimes you get one that has a super nice fit and finish other times you get one that is all kinds of wonky. They are certainly made to work with their own brand of uppers and lowers not so well at mixing and matching. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
volkov 318 Posted May 7, 2011 Report Share Posted May 7, 2011 Midwest and YHM both make 2 piece quad rails that are made to replace the GI handguards. Both are just over $100. Midwest also has an awesome 2peice free float rail that you remove the delta ring to atach. It is a bit more than the above units. You have the right idea, Chinese garbage has no place on an AR, or a siaga for that matter. I'm actually looking for pretty much standard GI, having a hard time finding it, maybe I'll run with one of the others tho. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MT Predator 2,294 Posted May 9, 2011 Report Share Posted May 9, 2011 Btw, anyone know a good place to get the typical military style handguards (durable is preferable to cheap). I don't like the magpul one the rifle came with. I've got a set of brand new Carbine length handguards taken off a RRA before the first round went down the pipe.. They have the double heat shields. PM me if interested for more info. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MT Predator 2,294 Posted May 9, 2011 Report Share Posted May 9, 2011 I have a RRA Entry Tactical that has served me well. As far as the M&Ps go, I'd steer away from the lower end Sporter models. (Non-chrome lined barrel, no forward assist or ejection port cover). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JonnyDingDongs 158 Posted May 15, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 15, 2011 I have a RRA Entry Tactical that has served me well. Good to hear! Not sure if I can seriously wait another 25 days for this gun, though.. Might just have to drive over to Colona, pitch a tent outside the shop, and tell them I'm not leaving 'till I get my new toy. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
menace667 194 Posted May 26, 2011 Report Share Posted May 26, 2011 what do people think of the S&W mp ar and what are the worth my brother is trying to get me to trade him for my new stock saiga 12. wondering if is is worth it. I've got a pair of S&W M&P15Rs. They go bang every time. Seem well put together. Warranty is only a year, but I never needed it. Original batch of M&P15s was made by Stag IIRC, not sure who makes them currently. There are not many of the stag made M&P's out there, if you find one buy it as the second contractor leaves allot to be desired. IMO Stags are the best sub $1000 gun on the market hands down. They also have the best basic stripped lowers out there, so many brands have such sloppy fit and and soft anodizing now, stags are still fantastic. RRA are hit and miss sometimes you get one that has a super nice fit and finish other times you get one that is all kinds of wonky. They are certainly made to work with their own brand of uppers and lowers not so well at mixing and matching. I just got my Stag Lefty (model 2L) and it is amazing. Had a Colt before and prefer the stag overall to it. I have been into AR's since 2000 when I was in the Army and this is by far my favorite. It fires amazingly well, and just feels right. I was skeptical but desperately wanted a true lefty and am now a Stag customer for life as long as they continue the quality work. One thing I see as a bad idea are all the people who buy flat tops with optics and no hard sights. Anyone shooting should always learn their weapon with hard sights prior to any optic, especially battery powered optics. I chose the 2L specifically for that reason. It will allow the ACOG I want but has the iron back up rear sight and permanent front sight. Amazingly beautiful gun. This is her as soon as I got home. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Doug Hartley 526 Posted May 29, 2011 Report Share Posted May 29, 2011 My first AR was a Rock River Tactical Entry that I found at a local shop. I shot it stock for a year then started making modifications. It now has a 20" JP Enterprises complete upper, with light stainless carrier, JP buffer, a JP trigger and a MagPul Precision Rifle Stock. The nice thing about an AR is you can do all of the work yourself. After you play with it for a while your choices are unlimited. You're getting a good quality gun, buy lots of ammo and have fun! Doug Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JonnyDingDongs 158 Posted June 1, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2011 Thought I was getting my gun soon.. Evidently, I'm not the only one impressed with the features and price tag... They bumped my wait time up!! So I've got another 45 days to go... According to the sales guy I talked to, it's due to a big wait time on parts. Working in a factory, I understand this. However, I also understand the use of the term "Rush order" when you have multiple customers waiting on you. Damn you, RRA. Why must you torment me so..? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JonnyDingDongs 158 Posted June 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 24, 2011 After about three months of waiting.. It's here! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JonnyDingDongs 158 Posted June 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2011 Haven't fired it yet, but I've heard good things about ^ this muzzle break. Looks like a PITA to clean, though... Trip to the range either the 1st or 4th and I can't wait! Loving the star safety and the 2-stage trigger. World of difference between this and most triggers I've used. Damn sure puts a Tapco G2 to shame. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JonnyDingDongs 158 Posted June 26, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 26, 2011 Range report: Shot at 50 yards for initial sight-in. Running S&B .223 55gr FMJ, (3) three-round groups put a 2" group center-mass on a silhouette. Moved out to 100 yards and it was shooting high as hell. Third shot hit a groundhog-shaped steel target. Switched to mil-surp 5.56X45 62gr 'Match' ammo and it brought it down some, but after 100 rounds downrange I still couldn't get the sights where I wanted them. Must be user error. Loved the RRA two-stage trigger. Total travel couldn't be much over a 16th, and it was nice and crisp. Still peeved that their free-float tube requires gunsmith removal/reinstallation. I really wanted that ejection port door on there, but what can you do..? No feed or ejection errors, not that I expected one. Cleaning was more involved than I'm accustomed to, but I was amazed at how clean the gas tube stayed. The muzzle break was even shockingly clean! and I'd say it does its job, as there was almost no muzzle jump from the bench. But since I got a .223 bug up my ass while waiting for this to come in, I'll be starting a Saiga .223 build by the end of the week. Then I'll see the AK/AR differences side-by-side. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
t3mac21 1 Posted June 28, 2011 Report Share Posted June 28, 2011 get yourself a M4/m16 25 yard zeroing target, and go from there. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JonnyDingDongs 158 Posted August 28, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 28, 2011 Well.. Scoped it for laughs... Added a BSA Panther series 6.5-20 X 44 and a cheap UTG bipod I had laying around. 100 Yards: 200 Yards: Then I got bored: Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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