csspecs 1,987 Posted January 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 Zero play or wobble for my magazines once locked in. When the magazine locks in there is no "click" the way my surefire magazines sound, the mag catch simply slides on and holds tight. I do have to slightly file the mag catch edge down and/or smooth the magazine rear lug as the mag catch "bites" hard against the magazine making the removal of the magazine a little more difficult than it should be. The magazines do drop free, install tight and no wobble, so far so good for me. It probably bite in because your catch is still sharp, you could polish it and the mag tab with emery paper. Or let it self polish with use, mine is shiny and won't bite into anything.. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
csspecs 1,987 Posted January 30, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 I agree with Tombs about slightly oversizing the lug and end users maybe having to do a bit of filing for a perfect fit. With the wide variance in tolerances on the guns it would be impossible for you to make one mag to fit them all without any problems. My factory mag seems to have zero play, an older 10 rounder from you has almost none, and my 3 Uintas wobble front to back, side to side, and up and down. They have enough slop that they will not feed reliably unless I push them up while firing. To me at least, it seems their ramp angle is just wrong. If the specs on your new ones (specifically on the 15 rounders, for me) match your older 10 round ones then I should be good to go. Otherwise I'll have to look into extending the mag release lever. I'd rather not do that because then it might be too tight for the factory mag and my 10 rounder. Here's an off the wall question. Since weight seems to be such a concern what would be the feasibility of using titanium to build some? Obviously, the price would go up, but is it mechanically doable using the same equipment you currently have? Just a thought. Finally, I'll add my compliments to those you've received already. With the somewhat limited number of Saiga 308s around, I seriously doubt making mags for them is the best way to become rich. I appreciate the time and effort you have put into giving 308 aficionados viable, quality choices in magazines. Thanks, Tim Next run has three customer suggestions applied. We tightened the front of the magazine to the trunnion. Added a support for the front of the floorplate to prevent it from getting bent in rough use. And made the rear lugs thicker. I read titanium and instantly said NO.... But later figured why not at least look into it. Here is what I found: Costs roughly 10X more for the sheet stock... Which is not a huge cost, its just a sticker shock because most common grades of steel are so cheap. I don't have titanium ratings listed on any of my cutting equipment, so I'd have to go ask the old guys(NASA retirees) if its possible on my machines. It will probably cut because the yield strengths are similar on grade 2 (which is what they have listed for sheet) to what annealed sheet steel is. Many issue I see is lower elongation, and a few mentions that 'Titanium likes to crack'. Also remember that its only advantage over steel is that its 40% lighter then steel and roughly as strong. It will still weigh about 8 ounces. I would guess that it would add roughly $20+ to the cost of a mag, which makes the 4+ ounce savings seem expensive. Another idea for lightening that had been bounced around was punching circles out of overlapping areas, or to use perforated sheet of some form.. However I can't see either panning out as a production item.. They would be interesting demo pieces. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dad2142Dad 6,559 Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 Carbon Fiber Quote Link to post Share on other sites
timy 1,185 Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 Carbon Fiber With lightening holes? Actually, it may be possible but all that stamping equipment couldn't be used, except maybe as molds. I believe the main problem with carbon fiber is that it is extremely labor intensive. That's what I hear as far as automotive applications go. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dad2142Dad 6,559 Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 Someday maybe someday Quote Link to post Share on other sites
csspecs 1,987 Posted January 30, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 Really the ultimate would probably be poly armored perforated stainless steel.. And I don't mean steel inserts, but an entire mag made of perforated steel then over molded with poly. You would get the dent and weather resistance of the poly with the durability of steel.... But I'd guess the cost would be roughly the same as a metal mag AND a poly mag added together, because you would have the entire production cost of both products. But the goal is to make something good that people can afford. Which is why even the factory S-12 mags only have inserts. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
netpackrat 566 Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 Another point of interest where titanium is concerned, is that it's possible to set it on fire, at least when it is being machined. My father in law was turning a piece of it on a lathe once, got a little too aggressive, and managed to ignite it. Since he didn't have a "class D" fire extinguisher (flammable metals) handy, there wasn't much to do besides watch it burn out and keep it from setting anything else on fire. The corrosion resistance is supposed to be phenomenal. I would eliminate the metal finishing operation entirely, and just ship them bare. That would be bad ass. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
G O B 3,516 Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 Steel is still the 'wonder' material! If you want LIGHT go AR with aluminum mags. For tough, a steel mag in a steel AK! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DrThunder88 912 Posted January 31, 2012 Report Share Posted January 31, 2012 Steel is pretty awesome. I guess it had better be. People have been making it for about 4000 years! I am happy to hear the mags are already undergoing improvements and am eagerly awaiting the 15-rounders hitting your e-store's shelves! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
timy 1,185 Posted January 31, 2012 Report Share Posted January 31, 2012 I am happy to hear the mags are already undergoing improvements and am eagerly awaiting the 15-rounders hitting your e-store's shelves! Yeah, same here. I figure you can resolve the weight issue by running fully loaded 15 rounders instead of fully loaded 20 rounders. Less cumbersome too. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
csspecs 1,987 Posted February 1, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2012 They are back in stock. Slightly thicker back lug, and a extra floor plate support up front. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
netpackrat 566 Posted February 1, 2012 Report Share Posted February 1, 2012 They are back in stock. Slightly thicker back lug, and a extra floor plate support up front. So, does that mean if I modify my rifle to fit better with the two I already have, then any more I buy will require fitting due to the thicker rear lug? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
csspecs 1,987 Posted February 2, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2012 Probably not.. There is a happy medium where both work just fine. For the average saiga .308 the catch will just swing a little less. On my one .308 the factory mag sometimes does not lock because its to tight, and these fit and lock. And if our other mags lock reasonably tight these will lock tight as well. We came up with a way to get a little more support off the front trunnion to take up a little more slack. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
csspecs 1,987 Posted February 2, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2012 Ok just wanted to bounce an idea off ya'll. How would olive drab zinc coating be in your opinion? Its used on a lot of military gear, metal finishing shop had a bunch of armor plates coated in it (humvee turrets?) .. Looked pretty cool, just don't know if its something that would be wanted. Also found out that a shop in Orlando started doing phosphate finishing. Which I think is ugly as hell and dirty, but it is common on M-14 mags ect.. Is that something you would want more then black oxide on future batches? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dudethebagman 222 Posted February 2, 2012 Report Share Posted February 2, 2012 One reason I like black is because it's easy to match. I don't have an OD green fetish, but other people's fetishes are their business. Is the phosphate more durable than the oxide? What's the appeal? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
csspecs 1,987 Posted February 2, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2012 Meh, it all scratches about the same. Phosphate is a dull flat black, oxide is more shiny. To me phosphate always looks scuffed, and it tends to turn greenish with age. Its main advantage is that it paints better. On paper Phosphate is more durable.. In practice it tends to get just as beat up, most scratches that occur tend to be from sand, rocks, or concrete.. All are more then abrasive enough to get through all the normal metal coatings. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
netpackrat 566 Posted February 2, 2012 Report Share Posted February 2, 2012 I would prefer parkerization, if that is what you mean by phosphate coating. It's a good finish on its own, and provides a good base for something like Gunkote. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DrThunder88 912 Posted February 2, 2012 Report Share Posted February 2, 2012 OD green would go with my .308 sooooo well! As aesthetically pleasing as OD mags would be, I'd be happy with plain oxide or phosphating that I could paint later. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
G O B 3,516 Posted February 2, 2012 Report Share Posted February 2, 2012 (edited) I like the OD zinc, it is a great corrosion prevention coating, and takes paint well so those who want black, plum, or whatever can do their thing. Mine would stay the way they came. Edited February 2, 2012 by G O B 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
timy 1,185 Posted February 2, 2012 Report Share Posted February 2, 2012 One reason I like black is because it's easy to match. I don't have an OD green fetish, but other people's fetishes are their business. I guess I have a OD fetish as far as my 308 goes. Reason being, one day I opened my gun safe and noticed seven black on black on black weapons. I was afraid I was developing a tactical fetish and also figured a little more color in there would be nice. That's also the reason I went with purpleheart wood on my 223. Then I bought a Mosin with a beautiful original wood stock on it. Much better, but now I'm thinking I may have a gun fetish. Oh well. I agree that black is easier to match and expect OD mags wouldn't be the same as the rest of my stuff. I would get a few more opinions on the zinc but don't see anything wrong with a little variety. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
csspecs 1,987 Posted February 2, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2012 I would prefer parkerization, if that is what you mean by phosphate coating. It's a good finish on its own, and provides a good base for something like Gunkote. Correct. Parkerization is a trademark name for phosphate finishes... Kinda like saying Kleenex vs. Tissue. I'd be going for the one that offers better corrosion resistance on its own, I forget if that one is iron, zinc or manganese. One of them is basically only a prep for paint, but I see it used as end finish by several companies. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
otus 1 Posted February 7, 2012 Report Share Posted February 7, 2012 They are back in stock. Slightly thicker back lug, and a extra floor plate support up front. Is there any reason for me (or anyone who bought mags from the first batch) to replace the floor plates, or otherwis need to improve these mags? I've got to admit, of the three stamped .308 Saiga 20-rounders and two older .308 10-rounders I purchased, all I've done so far to test them is to open one of each and test for fit in the rifles. Wobble was tolerable, mag locked up, and everything looked good. Will load and shoot with them soon. Also, any reason to test the others I still have sealed up? Or can these safely be rainy-day mags in their plastic and VCI wrappings for now? Thanks, -otus Quote Link to post Share on other sites
csspecs 1,987 Posted February 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2012 The support is welded onto the mag body, the floor plate itself is the same, so replacing the floor plate itself won't do anything. I have not heard of anyone ruining one yet.. But I have a bag of spares ready in case anyone does.. If anyone really really wants a spare I think they are roughly $3.00 each plus a little for shipping (replacements for damaged ones is free). They are roughly as hard to bend as AK floor plates and tend to fit a little better then AK floor plates, so it should not be a problem. But I figure its better to listen to good advice. The mags don't vary much from one to the next, if one works in your rifle then they should all work the same. VCI paper is supposed to be good for 3+ years, I've found their ratings to be correct so far.. Once they are opened you need to keep them like you would any other blued firearm part, lightly oiled, cool dry place ect... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jimdigriz 580 Posted February 7, 2012 Report Share Posted February 7, 2012 Floorplates with rounded edges would make these mags perfect. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
veritas_vincit 4 Posted February 7, 2012 Report Share Posted February 7, 2012 Update on those loose Csspecs mags on my particular .308: I received replacements from Csspecs, and they fit nice and tight. I won't have to replace or modify my mag catch, although I did file down the back of it to let it stick out forward more like my other AKs. Thanks Csspecs! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ryan6864 11 Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 I was going to pick up some ProMags but came across this thread havent checked your website in a long time last time I checked you were out, think ill have to pick up a few 20 rd mags. I'll take steel over plastic any day! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
blfuller 2 Posted February 20, 2012 Report Share Posted February 20, 2012 I would like to suggest black manganese phosphate for a finish. And if one were so inclined they could use GunKote or Moly Resin to paint them to match whatever finish they have on thieir rifle. The manganese phosphate is far superior to black oxide for corrosion resistance. The phosphate has a spongelike structure to it and the oil is absorbed into it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mephis 82 Posted February 20, 2012 Report Share Posted February 20, 2012 Well put 80 rounds through one today. Ran 100% as expected, geesh that's one tank of a magazine. I was using it as a mono-pod off the shooting bench and it wouldn't budge at all. I'd be willing to wager that these things are more durable and reliable than some of the upper end steel AK mags. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lbsrdi 1,078 Posted February 23, 2012 Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 Has anyone found any good pouch options for these mags. I am looking at a few, just wondering what others are using. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
biskitz 24 Posted February 26, 2012 Report Share Posted February 26, 2012 (edited) Well, don't mean to , but thats what forums are for, right? The sharp edges on the floorplate that have been brought up a couple of times are taking their toll on me. I practiced two rifle to pistol transitions with a sling, where you end up with the gun on your back. For my effort I drew blood in two spots,... The inertia of the moving gun makes that little corner cut like a dull knife. I'm going to look into the 308 magpuls to cover the bases but those corners should be de-horned. On a lighter note, all of my mags are feeding flawlessly. Edited February 26, 2012 by biskitz Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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