Mag falls out and probable damaged mags

[barely 5]

Took out my new converted S12 today for the first time. Yes, I'm one of those whom didn't shoot the S12 in the "sporter" configuration and immediately converted the gun. I can only say that I bought the gun intending to do the conversion and had no intentions of using it in stock form.

 

So I left the house with my new converted S12 and several different types of 2 3/4 ammunition figuring that I'd be playing with the plug. Not long after starting to shoot, my new SGM 12-round magazine dropped out of the rifle unexpectantly. Did a quick check and tried again. Then the problem got worse. Now keep in mind, I had shot less than 20 rounds by this time. Being new to Saiga's, I thought that I would try another mag so I picked up the only other SGM 12-round magazine that I brought to the range and gave it a try. This one dropped in less than a single mag dump.

 

Knowing that I had a problem, I did a closer inspection and it appears as though the shape of the magazine release tab has caused some of the plastic to "sheer" from the magazine. So are my new $40 mags screwed now? I'm guessing that the release tab can have the end angled to fix the problem, but have I screwed 2 magazines in the learning process?

 

When in firing position, I do NOT touch the magazine and I am fairly certain that I'm not inserting the magazine incorrectly. I also inserted the magazines on an open bolt. Suggestions?

 

 

 

[lbsrdi 1,078]

Did you fit the mag by removing material? The reason I ask is in your pic it looks like the mag was not properly locked in. The pic shows the tab scraped material off of the tip of the angle. If the mag was properly fit the tab should be underneath that point against the mag body. That's my thought.

[lbsrdi 1,078]

Also in my opinion those mags are not ruined. JMO

[schultze13 354]

+1 for KotH, On one of my S-12's I had to slam the mag home to get it to lock in and when it did it was not seating all the way on the bottom of the locking lug. I filed the top of the mag latch down till when I rocked the mag back easy I hear a "click" and the mag latch is at the bottom of the locking lug against the body. Just make sure when you file it down to keep it square and that you dont take to much off or then the mag will become loose. One last thing ALWAYS shoot your new saiga before converting them to make sure they are correct you don't want to put all that time and money into your gun and have to go back and fix all the little stuff.

[barely 5]

Thanks all! I'm glad that there is a place like this to ask these types of questions.

 

Regarding whether I filed or made any modifications to the magazine, I did NOT. I really didn't touch the magazines at all nor the mag release. Those just weren't items that I touched during my conversion. When I checked that they fit, I did get a positive click from the mag latch. Although now they don't lock into place since the plastic sheered away.

 

The missing plastic (or what appears to be filed away) is where the plastic sheered away during my shooting. I'm 100% positive that it was caused by the angle of the OEM mag release where it locks into the plastic tab on the magazine. From the factory, the mag release is cut squared, which means that one of the 90 degree angles of the cut is where the pressure is applied to lock in the mag. And what appears to have happened is simply that after bang'ing away just a couple of rounds, it was almost as if I took a chisel and sheered away part of the plastic tab on the magazine.

 

Unless I hear some other advice, my intentions are to slighly angle the tip of the mag release so that it rests flat against the plastic magazine tab. No longer a 90 degree cut from the factory, but rather a angle that rests completly flat on the tab of the magazine. I just hope that there is still enough plastic there to keep these magazines reliable.

 

I converted this rifle for usage in 3-gun matches, and there's an instant disqualification is you drop a loaded magazine accidently.

[madmax4x4 68]

you could buy a magwell or a new mag catch for an easy fix.

http://store.carolinashooterssupply.com/servlet/-strse-573/SAIGA-12-MAGAZINE-RELEASE/Detail

[Javelinadave 1]

I filed the mag lock edge down to make mine square. It was cut at the factory to some weird angle and my AGP mags were not locking in place. It is now 100% functional.

[The_Caged_Bird 474]

Thanks all! I'm glad that there is a place like this to ask these types of questions.

 

Regarding whether I filed or made any modifications to the magazine, I did NOT. I really didn't touch the magazines at all nor the mag release. Those just weren't items that I touched during my conversion. When I checked that they fit, I did get a positive click from the mag latch. Although now they don't lock into place since the plastic sheered away.

 

The missing plastic (or what appears to be filed away) is where the plastic sheered away during my shooting. I'm 100% positive that it was caused by the angle of the OEM mag release where it locks into the plastic tab on the magazine. From the factory, the mag release is cut squared, which means that one of the 90 degree angles of the cut is where the pressure is applied to lock in the mag. And what appears to have happened is simply that after bang'ing away just a couple of rounds, it was almost as if I took a chisel and sheered away part of the plastic tab on the magazine.

 

Unless I hear some other advice, my intentions are to slighly angle the tip of the mag release so that it rests flat against the plastic magazine tab. No longer a 90 degree cut from the factory, but rather a angle that rests completly flat on the tab of the magazine. I just hope that there is still enough plastic there to keep these magazines reliable.

 

I converted this rifle for usage in 3-gun matches, and there's an instant disqualification is you drop a loaded magazine accidently.

 

I wouldn't do that if I were you. I'd push out the pin that holds the mag release in, then file a bit of the material off, put the mag release back on the gun and try to insert a mag. It's a long process but once you get it correct, you'll never have another problem with it. You don't want to angle the contact point of the mag-release to the mag because then you'll have a sharp edge up against the rear tab of the mag. I don't know if you've ever seen slow-mo video of an S-12 firing with a long stick mag, but the mag rocks forward and rearward while firing, you don't want to "chisel" the rear tab of the mag away over time.

 

Just slowly take material off the mag-catch until the mags seat PROPERLY.

 

You could sand a bit of the material off the bottom of the rear tab of the mag until it fits in your gun, but you'll have to do that with every mag you get from now on.

[StarPD 6]

Probably not the same problem,but when my S-12 that I bought already converted from a noted FAL 'smith, all of my AGP and Surefire mags seated properly. One of 4 of my factory 5 round mags would not lock in place correctly however. Rather than remove metal from the mag catch, which leaves irreversible results, I inserted the errant mag as far as it would go. Then I smartly slapped the floorplate. No go. So I did it again, this time harder. After several repeats of this, all of a sudden, the mag locked in place nice and tightly. I repeated this several times more. Now this mag inserts properly and locks in place nice and tight, and doesn't come loose. No amount of wiggling or pulling on an inserted loaded mag will cause it to come loose now, and no mag has ever come loose from shooting long strings of slugs.

 

While this may not be the same problem the OP is having, it may be a simple solution for any others here that have problems fully seating and locking mags in place.

It does happen occasionally.

 

There's an old saying about removing metal that says if you absolutely must do so, remove the absolute least metal required to achieve proper function, and do it very carefully. In my case, I was able to cure my problem without surgery on the mag latch, and the gun functions perfectly with out said surgery to the gun. Now ALL of my mags seat fully and snugly, with no looseness whatsoever.

[lbsrdi 1,078]

I would not remove metal. Properly fitting your mags (removing plastic) is what I mean. Watch MD Arms drum fitting video.

[shades_of_grey 1,092]

I would not remove metal. Properly fitting your mags (removing plastic) is what I mean. Watch MD Arms drum fitting video.

 

^ This.

 

Assuming you bought the S-12 NIB, the factory 5 round mag it came with is fitted to your specific shotgun. If you start taking steel off the mag latch to suit those common SGM mags, it may negatively affect the fit of your 5 rnder, (and other mags as well).

 

Fit your mags to your gun, not your gun to your mags.

Edited May 8, 2011 by post-apocalyptic

[barely 5]

Thanks for the advice everyone. I reading all of the different replies and taking them into consideration.

 

Here is one item that I noticed as I'm closely inspecting my situation. Keep in mind, that I've NOT MODIFIED ANYTHING yet in regards to the new SGM magazines nor the mag catch....

 

When I install the SGM 12-round magazine and inspect from the bottom of the firearm, there really is NOT any way to see exactly how the magazine catch looks as it sits against the magazine. But alternatively, if I install the factory OEM 5-round magazine, there is enough clearance behind the magazine when looking at the bottom of the firearm to view a little better how it looks. What I've noticed is that the magazine catch when locked into place does NOT PROTRUDE all the way into the catch on the magazine. So while I had the OEM magazine inserted, I pulled on it to see how sturdy the magazine was attached. When I removed that same OEM magazine, I noticed that I could just barely tell exactly where the 90 degree cut on the magazine release was pressing into the magazine catch. I can definitely confirm that the "flat" tip of the magazine release does not press against the tab on the magazine. Although it's difficult to explain, the best that I know how to describe is that it's the 90 degree angle towards the rear of the firearm that leaves a slight "knife edge" impression on the OEM magazine.

 

Just to clarify, I'm not being so aggressive with try to pull the magazine that I'm trying to damage the magazine. I'm just tugging enough to see if I can get the steel magazine catch to leave a slight impression into the plastic of the magazine catch to see exactly how/where the two mesh together...

 

Next, I took one of the new SGM 12-round magazine that some of the plastic has sheered off and did the same. What I'm noticing is the the "knife edge" impression that is left (or was already there on the new SGM magazine from prior shooting) is closer to the edge of the plastic tip on the magazine catch. Again, hard to explain this, but I would tend to believe that it should try to snug up a little closer to the body of the magazine rather than so close to the edge.

 

So, I'm still open to hearing what you guys thing. And I've not modified anything yet, although it sounds like the majority recommendation is to NOT modify the steel magazine release. But here is my question. Is it possible that where the steel magazine release and the underside of the firearm connect together to limit the overtravel of how far the magazine releases is cut incorrectly? I'm only asking because it might help my situation if the steel magazine release could be pushed by the spring just slighly more inward. Again, keep in mind that I can view what I'm describing on the OEM magazine, but I cannot see this on the SGM magazine and have to go from where I see the "knife edge" impression in the plastic mag catch.

 

Thoughts?

 

Thanks in advance to those for helping a Saiga newbie like myself. I'm very familiar with the smallest details of my other firearms, but just have to get over this learing curve with the Saiga.

 

 

[lbsrdi 1,078]

I'm thinking that if you properly fit one of the SGM mags it should lock in properly. If you have not yet, watch the MD arms drum fitting video. I am only speculating so do not do anything I say without research and other opinions, but I am thinking that your gun may be one of the rare ones that requires material removed from the front of the mag to get it to sit correctly. I could be way off.

[StarPD 6]

Have you tried inserting the SGM mag then slapping the floorplate smartly, maybe several times?

The front of the SGMs may be keeping the rear tab from going far enough up to allow the mag catch to seat fully.

The fact that you can't see the mag catch is a tip off.

It's worth a try.

It worked for me.