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accuracy BAD

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For the last month I have been trying to get my 308 to shoot decent. Ever since I converted to a pistol grip configuration accuracy got terrible. I thought maybe it was my reloads and I might add I've reloaded in my life probably 100,000 rnds. So I purchased assuie surplus, no luck my zero would change. Took scope off fired iron sights same thing. Had others at the range try it same thing. Now in desperation I fired single shot with scope on and no magazine inserted, shot decent, put the magazine back in with 3 rnds. shot terrible, 10" group. Fired iron sights with mag in 10"group.Now I'am wondering by removing the 2 rear cross bar pins to do this conversion that the reciever is twisting very slightly say a couple .001's or so and causing a harmonic balance problem and with the mag inserted by stripping off a round it's creating this problem. I've or no one at or gun club has ever come accross this problem before. I'am puzzled ? I'am ready to sell. PS. 1600 rnds. assuie $260 this includes shipping to your door. www.ammoman.com

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i never heard anything about the reciever twisting during pg conversion. the ammo is most likely your problem. i asked a wholesale ammo dealer about the argentine ammo. "its nice and shiny." thats what he had to say, and told me that aussie, south african, and portuguese are 100 times better. Argentine is like the indian ammo, except it doesnt explode in your gun.

 

griz

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What do you mean by "2 rear cross bar pins"? There is one cross pin, it is forward of the hammer.

Did you check the crown?

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yes your right 1 cross pin ,2 rivets I drilled out. anyway it's not the ammo because with 2 shots firing a single shot at a time I can make 2 holes just about touch. 5 shot group 2". In my T/C Encore same ammo 1" at 100yrds. That cross pin was put there for a reason and that was to reinforce the reciever from twisting.Now I don't say that this is what's the cause of my accuracy problem, but I will say this you get what you pay for. The 308 is as we know a high pressure round and that's a lot of force on a sheet metal reciever and not that it can't take it but that's not to say we didn't alter the engineering of the rifle. I'am going to machine a crosspin or metal block and install one somewhere in the rear of the reciever,

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Question - did you use iron sites or a scope? Reason I ask is that I've heard of the same problem on other S-308s unmodified using a side rail scope mount. Try taking a standard AKM and twisting it with your hands. Flexes a little, huh? I've seen a slow motion video of a milled AK firing and that thing does bend. I have also removed that cross pin but checked very carefully for changes in flexibility - didn't notice any increase from before. Point being that while some people get lucky with their scope setups, the S-308's scope mount isn't as stiff as its oron sites. Most people who can use iron sites effectively say they get better accuracy from them than a scope on the S-308. Alternately, some scope mounts aren't on spec for the AK-100 rail but are fine for the Romanian AKMs. Just a wee difference that apparently makes a difference.

 

My opinion on scoping the 308 and probably all AKs is that a scout type mount on the rear site would likely offer best accuracy. Even if your suspicion is correct and the cross post is what made the difference, it would only affect the scope lineup with the bore, not the gun's inherent accuracy. Use a rear site scope mount or simple iron sites and I suspect your accuracy will improve. Give it a try and let us know!

 

BTW, regarding removing the cross post, I did so to make room for a magazine conversion. For just the FCG conversion, folks usually mod the hammer, removing the protrusion that hits the post, and leave the post intact.

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I have tried iron sights same results. As for the video you mention a member at the club brought this up and told me about it. I didn't know if it was true or not but now that you say it also it would confirm what he said. AS for modifying the hammer and not removing the cross pin this is new to me. The information I got from this forum was to remove it and I questioned that at the time.I'am not done yet, I will tinker till I get it right after all that half the fun.

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Sorry for the redundancy, I re-read your post and the fact that you used iron sites was clear as day. Suppose during the conversion work something else might have been damaged? If it was the crown, it should be repairable. Only other thing I can think of, hope it's not insulting to mention, is that some debris may have ended up in the barrel. I always use a bore snake to clean such things, and a basic brush may leave something in the chamber.

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What cross pins are you talking about? If you are talking about the ones that hold in the stock FCG like in the 7.62x39, .223, and 12 they do not exist on the .308

 

do you have pics?

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My mistake the cross pins 2 on the rear of reciever of the 223 saiga are the ones I removed, I did not remove any from the 308 as there is only one forward of the hammer, in my pissed off mode I was thinking I removed them from the 308 also, still I don't know what is cause of the inaccuracy of the 308, maybe it needs a different heaver bullet. Another fellow at the gun club has the same problem only with the Romax Drag. 762x54, same problem, fire single shot shoots well install loaded mag. poor accuracy.

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My mistake the cross pins 2 on the rear of reciever of the 223 saiga are the ones I removed, I did not remove any from the 308 as there is only one forward of the hammer, in my pissed off mode I was thinking I removed them from the 308 also, still I don't know what is cause of the inaccuracy of the 308, maybe it needs a different heaver bullet. Another fellow at the gun club has the same problem only with the Romax Drag. 762x54, same problem, fire single shot shoots well install loaded mag. poor accuracy.

 

I'm not sure about your problem but tell that guy at the club not to shoot anything heavier than 148 grain through his Romak It will damage the gun otherwise.

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Have you tried it with the mag in but empty? I just can't see feeding from the mag making that big a difference in accuracy.

 

I think it's dirty, bad ammo, bad muzzle crown, or bad shooting, or a combo.

 

And that is not a flame, I'm going through the same thing with a .308 right now, and it's a SAVAGE BOLT GUN...... :ded:

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You know, the temperature of the barrel may be the cause of this. Many barrels hit POA when cold and then shift as the barrel temperature changes. Recommendation I usually hear is to wait a minute or two between shots siting in. Then just come to understand how heat affects your accuracy.

Edited by BattleRifleG3

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stok

 

what do you mean "heavier than 148 will damage the gun"????

 

can you fill me in?

 

 

I really want a romak and did a lot of reading on them. The other forum I looked at discussed this quite a bit. They said that if you use the heavier 185grain bullets is will hammer the back of the reciever badly. Which in turn will ruin your gun. They recommended that you only use the 147-48 grain bullets. That is why I think wolf started producing the lighter rounds. Also they say the accuracy is much better with the lighter rounds especially the czech silver tip. I will try and find the forum I read it in.

 

Here is an example:

 

http://www.gunboards.com/forums/topic.asp?...ms=romak,3,ammo

 

Search the sniper forum there I know there are several more posts about Romaks and ammo

Edited by stokstad

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wouldn't having a buffer help at all?

 

 

I would assume it would. Search that sniper section on that board theres a lot of info on romaks there. But even with the buffer from what Ive read they are just more accurate with the light loads.

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wait a minute...............czech silver tip??????

 

are you talking about a romak 3? 7.62x54r?

 

now it all makes sense.

 

it's late. past time for sleep.

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yes I it could be barrel temp. but isn't that the point of a semi auto, m1 garand's normally don't have that much of a accuracy problem in semi auto mode and I'am not shooting in a high rate of fire, I'am old SLOW. We'll get to the bottom of this. Next step; Winchester 748, Hornaday match cases, Serria matchking bullet, If this don't work; in the garden tomato stake

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I'm sure folks would jump on your S-308 if you decided to part with it. Regarding accuracy changes with heat, that all depends on the rifle. Pressure on the barrel, specific metal used, and internal stresses all affect how its accuracy would change when heated.

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OK....

 

 

The rifle shoots like ASS.... :ded:

 

 

Time to get rid of it...

 

my FFL holders addy is...

 

line of duty

5212 rte 38A

Auburn NY 13021

 

FEEL FREE to include anything you are tired of looking at in relation to this rifle..

 

( slings, ammo, parts, accessories, scopes, etc.etc..etc...)

 

There.... dont you already feel LESS STRESSED knowing you wont have to fiddle with it anymore??? :lolol::lolol::lolol::lolol::lolol:

 

ROFL!!!!!

 

:smoke:

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voultures all of you, everyone wants my guns.My sons are already dividing them up and I only partially dead. Sorry no sell, like I said tomato stake if it don't start acting right.

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I am not a vulture!!!!

 

Pirannha maybe... not a vulture... LOL

 

 

NO sweat bro... you will get er to shoot decent before too long... you will slap your forehead and say "DOH" thats the problem! and it will all be good!

 

:smoke:

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I went to the range early today and found one problem that I think would cause the inaccurcy. When I did the conversion I installed a Ace skeletonized stock on close inspection the factory roll pin had a small amount of play making the butt stock rock back & forth, which would explain why I would get a nice group then the point of impact would change. I redrilled the hole to next size roll pin it's nice and tight now, but I noticed that the stock is very springy and I can make it flex with a small amount of hand pressure. We'll see next trip to the range Monday. Tomorrow Sunday is 410 skeet day, Tuesday skeet again, Wensday skeet, Thursday trap and some how I have to fit in surf fishing and oh I still have to find time to ride with my Harley buddy's. I'am tried need a senior citizen nap.

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I was just thinking something similar. I know I had read this topic before, but it didn't occur to me then. Pressure on the barrel? That could easily acount for strange inaccuracy. Check the forearm peice to see if it contacts the barrel. If it does, the easiest thing to do is work it with sandpaper until it doesn't anymore.

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