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223 5.56 question


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They are NOT THE SAME round.... they are EVER SO SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT!!!!

 

Heres what ARMALITE has to say on that topic...

 

http://www.armalite.com/library/techNotes/tnote45.htm

 

 

Winchester Law Enforcement ( whoever they are..)....

 

http://www.winchester.com/lawenforcement/n...aspx?storyid=11

 

 

Heres an interesting take on it at the sig forum...

 

http://sigforum.com/eve/ubb.x/a/tpc/f/6306...792/r/107107792

 

ANother interesting take....

 

http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-46621.html

 

I did a google search for 223 vs 5.56 and got a shitload of info on it...

 

Last time I gave MY OPINION... Vjor jumped in my shit... so I wont give you MY OPINION...

 

He may give you his... and both are probably JUST AS ACCURATE... considering all the hype out there about it...

 

 

 

Good luck...

 

 

:smoke:

Edited by IndyArms
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I would bet from what I read there that you would have no problems using either or in your saiga. I'm sure that the Saiga is not a match grade barrel and it would be closer to a mil spec size anyways. I'm sure the .223 owners can speak up about using different ammos.

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Looks like I stepped into a controversy. I heard the old story about Sov AKs in Viet Nam firing US ammo but not the other way round. I didn't think the Sovs made 5.56 until the 80's, let alone in SE Asia.

 

Interesting read, though. I've been thinking Saiga.223. I've got the other rifles and don't want a shotgun.

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you are still here with us... I would say thats a good start... LOL

 

 

not sure what to say about that myself... I am learning about THAT too...

 

Ask Vjor, hes quite knowledgeable on that sort of thing, he can prolly steer ya right!

 

( he yelled at me for my viewpoint on the 223vs556 LOL!!!! hahahaha)

 

 

But he knows his stuff...

 

 

 

:smoke:

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Wassup y'all? I'm starting to build my AR, so I figured I ought start reading this forum. I wanted to thank y'all for the information, it's helped me already! I read all the pages posted by Indy, and on the bottom of the Sig-forum there's a link that has EVERYTHING imaginable about the two rounds (and then even more). I'd suggest skimming through it, I just spent an hour completely absorbed. Anyway, to make it easier to find, I'm linking it below, but thank Indy for the connection, and Vjor for looking out for everyone's safety. I definately don't want my brand new AR blowing up, but thankfully I got a 5.56 so I can shoot anything I want. And a 1:7" twist, I can shoot the long, heavy, accurate bullets. I can't wait to finish the build. Thanks y'all for the info. Seriously, check out the link, you'll sound like a genius if you know even a tenth of the info included.

 

http://www.ammo-oracle.com/body.htm#chamb

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HOLY FUCK!!!!

 

BEWARE THAT SITE... its like an INTERNET BLACK HOLE!!!!

 

I was like... "Oh, I will just peek at it REALLY QUICK".... yeah... uh huh...

 

 

30 minutes later I Am BACK cause I TORE MYSELF AWAY cause I have to go cook dinner....

 

WOW...that *IS* everything you wanted to know or no money back!!!!

 

 

 

:smoke:

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ok guys i know that this is the 223 forum but i have to get a straight answer.

 

i shot a good bit of x51 through my saiga 308. :cryss:

 

hope i didn't screw anything up! :cryss:

 

what do ya'll think?!?!?! :cryss:

 

:unsure:  :unsure:  :unsure:  :unsure:  :unsure:  :unsure:

 

TWGLADF OK bro read this and you make your choice to use 7.62 on .308

or .308 on 7.62 is up to you.

 

http://carnival.saysuncle.com/002453.html

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i really didn't choose to use x51. an idiot that runs a shop around here told me that they were the exact same thing.

 

what an asshole.

 

only thing i'm worried about is my rifle.

 

do ya'll think i hurt it? i only ran at most 24 rounds of x51 through it.

 

i'm about to get some of that silver bear "308" ammo and thats all i'm planning on using from here out.

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I doubt it did anything to the rifle, from reading that article, it seems that the brass casings are the ones most likely to suffer...

 

and since you are unhurt, and the gun stull functions... I would say no worries.

 

 

:)

 

 

:smoke:

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thanks for the reassurance indy!

 

i am worried about premature throat erosion now though.

 

especially with my mak90 b/c of bump firing thousands of rounds. heat + wear and tear = mega throat erosion!

 

but wouldn't chrome lined chambers and bores be more resistant to this "deterioration"????????

 

:unsure::unsure::unsure::unsure::unsure::unsure:

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the chrome lining would be more resistant to all that, yes....

 

I think from what you have said that you havent fired only a small amount of the 51 ammo thru it... remember, guns have built in tolerances... I am sure it will be just fine, and if you DO get premature wear... think of it this way... premature to what???

 

a month sooner than it would have years down the road anyways? or what?!?!?

 

 

I would say no worries...

 

 

shoot the right stuff, keep it cleaned and well maintained and no problems!

 

 

:smoke:

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same thing i was thinking was maybe a chamber that can take both but that seems far fetched.

 

well, i see both 308 and x51 in that russian paragraph.

 

i'm still planning on using nothing but silver bear 308 from now on anyway.

 

i was just worrying about if i screwed up my gun by shooting x51 through it.

 

but, don't guess i did b/c i'm still here and so is my gun.

 

thanks for all the info guys!

 

thanks vjor!

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People get all bent out of shape over nothing and beleive everything they here or read, remember the Lawyers their the reason behind this 556,223 controversity. There is no difference in this than if you built a bench rest rifle with a match chamber and wanted no more that say .010 bullet jump, the pressure will climb verses a standard chamber. The REAL problem comes in when we reload military brass as it has less powder space capicaty and if you reload to maxs. load data with this tight chamber, now you stand a chance of case rupture, but blow the barrel Bull SHIT all barrels are engeneered to double pressure loads they have to be and are tested to that. Blow the bolt maybe, yes that's possible with military reloads not 556 factory, I'd have to see it to believe it and if some imported ammo is dangerous it's probably some super cheap stuff that should have sent up red flags to the buyer. Remember gun makers would love it if we bought guns and never shot them ZERO liability.

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just for the hell of it..........................

 

the izhmash site states that the saiga 308 uses 7.62x51 and 308.

 

this is like a tootsie pop, the world may never know.

 

by the way.........sorry for hijacking the thread.

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I don't know alot about this topic, but I have shot Australian 7.62x51 and remington core lokt .308 in my Saiga without a problem. I have only fired a few rounds of the .308 because I only use them for hunting, but the 7.62x51 on the other hand I have fired hundreds of rounds just shooting for fun. I also borrowed a friends H&K 93 back during the 4th of july weekend. It had .223 stamped on the receiver. He brought it to me with 2 40 round clips loaded with 5.56 ammo. I shot those 80 rounds and another 100 rounds of wolf .223 out of it without a problem. I know thats not enough rounds to really constitute a real ammo test, but I didnt intend to test anything, I was just shooting what I had.

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Ronswin:  I couldn't have said it better myself.

 

An edit to this (to add more information) is forthcoming.

 

My experience has been problems may occur if you use 5.56, loaded to military pressures, in a rifle designed for .223 to SAAMI specs. I have had no problems using .223 in a 5.56 rifle.

 

I use .308 Win and 7.62 x 51 interchangeably.

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I would also like to reassure you with this:

 

Military Headspace gauges (for the 308/7.62) are not only used in semi-auto rifles. They are meant to also be used in machine-guns, where you NEED a little more slop in the fit to compensate for the conditions created by automatic fire. Specifically, there is a greater chance of case adhesion and not all machine guns chambered for 308 allow for a short initial extraction, thus increasing the chance of tearing the case apart upon extraction. There can also be problems with the shape of the bullet used. In most European countries, a more pointed bullet with a longer ogive is used. In EXTREME cases, this would not have allowed the less pointed, shorter ogive, bullets used by the US Armed Forces to chamber in their rifles. So, the headspace gauges were made slightly longer to accomodate the chambering of US manufactured ammunition in European rifles and machineguns. Either way, they are interchangeable. As far as pressure levels go, it's a grab bag. Some military ammo produces less pressure than some commercial ammo, and vice versa (depending on manufacturing tolerances).

 

The Important Thing:

 

If anyone is really that worried about it, I suggest they get a reloading manual (or search the internet), and find instructions for "chamber casting". This will reproduce the chamber of your gun EXACTLY. From this, you, yourself, will be able to find all of the critical measurements, and compare them to any ammo you want to use.

 

/END Important Thing

 

I have nothing to add regarding 223 vs. 5.56. That is spelled out pretty clearly on the Bushmaster website and in their catalogue.

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