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Worried about damaging Crucial Parts Running CSS puck


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I have read several threads that lead me to believe that piston rod length is crucial and specific to gas block placement. I have been lead to believe that tampering with this can do damage to irreplaceable parts.

 

This is a concern of mine as I run the CSS stainless puck which more or less "extends" the length of the rod because of the bump on the back of it. It is clear that this is the case because of how much further forward this puck sits in the gas block (right behind gas port hole).

 

The reason I run this puck and not the factory one is because it enables me to fire low brass rounds more reliably and from the hip.

 

My question is, Has this puck ever been known to do any damage to the Piston Rod, BCG, Rear Trunion due to its op rod extension characteristics? As long as I always start with minimal gas (I have the MD V plug) and work my way up until it cycles reliably does anyone see and problems coming out of running this puck?

 

CSS%20Puc.JPG

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The CSS puck is relatively new, so probably not a lot of feedback on it yet. My best guess is that no it will not hurt anything. The stock op-rod is still a weak link regardless of the type of puck installed. Get yourself a HD op-rod if you are concerned about it.

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Yeah hopefully it will not, I sure do like the performance increase I get while running it. Stuff that will only cycle on 5 with the factory puck will cycle on 3 with this puck (MD V plug). I'll probably just keep running it and if anything ever does happen to my Op rod I suppose I could replace it with the heavy duty one.

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yes, this one takes up as much space as possible without beginning to block ports. I would turn the puck around but then it would probably function the same as my factory puck and only have the advantage of a slight volume displacement. (less gas to pressurize)

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It could be. I wonder... I am probably just gonna put the factory puck back in for now. I just really don't wanna hurt my saiga! parts are very limited.

 

and this thread was not at all intended to bash CSS they are awesome and I have made multiple orders and have been 100% satisfied. I am just curious if this has ever come up.

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Forgive my ignorance.. but isn't that puck backwards in the pic? The purpose of the nipple is to provide more surface area for the gas to push against. That would mean that the nipple should point towards the muzzle.. not "back" towards the bolt carrier.

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Forgive my ignorance.. but isn't that puck backwards in the pic? The purpose of the nipple is to provide more surface area for the gas to push against. That would mean that the nipple should point towards the muzzle.. not "back" towards the bolt carrier.

 

 

That could be, as I've no experience with this particular puck, but........ I suspect the nipple simply pushes the puck forward so it can't rattle like others do. The idea being that having it forward allows all the force to be directly imparted through the puck and directly into the piston, rather than imparting inertia into the puck, then having it hit the front of the piston.

 

Just a guess though.

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well maybe irreplaceable is the wrong word, but stuff like the bolt carrier and op rod are difficult to replace and once the rear trunion gets beaten back it becomes a tough situation from what I hear.

 

The photo is correct and goes along with the description that it is "Engineered to seat the puck as far forward as possible to keep your gas system working in optimum performance." and it does exactly that and does make the gun function better because not only does it push the puck forward but it stays in contact with the op rod longer for a more powerful stroke.

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well maybe irreplaceable is the wrong word, but stuff like the bolt carrier and op rod are difficult to replace and once the rear trunion gets beaten back it becomes a tough situation from what I hear.

 

The photo is correct and goes along with the description that it is "Engineered to seat the puck as far forward as possible to keep your gas system working in optimum performance." and it does exactly that and does make the gun function better because not only does it push the puck forward but it stays in contact with the op rod longer for a more powerful stroke.

 

I think this question was asked in another thread but never answered. According the some of the vendors, the length of the OP rod is critical. If that is true then wouldn't the extended "nipple" on the puck affect this length by reducing the space between the end of the rod and the puck? It was stated the incorrect length of the rod could cause damage or affect cycling. Inquiring minds want to know!

 

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?/topic/66918-saiga-12-bolt-carrier/

Edited by 5-0
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yeah exactly 5-0. I was hoping somebody would come up with a good answer, out of fear of the worst I switched back to my factory puck tonite and took the gun out. Worked almost as well : P

 

I definitely don't want to be the first to get a mangled rod or cracked BCG, etc. over a performance puck.

 

It is a great design and a good idea, but I want my saiga to last me as long as possible, so without some extensive experience/testing on it, I think im gonna keep it in the drawer for a rainy day.

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As long as the gassing is appropriate I don't see any issue.

 

Go find some pictures of the 030's gas system. The puck and rod are in constant contact.

 

The subject of the OP rod length being critical was brought up by the vendors. If this is true, then that extra piece that closes the gap or even eliminates it must make a difference in the S-12. What works in other guns may not necessarily work or even damage the S-12. Can any of the experts please shed some light on this?

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As long as the gassing is appropriate I don't see any issue.

 

Go find some pictures of the 030's gas system. The puck and rod are in constant contact.

 

The subject of the OP rod length being critical was brought up by the vendors. If this is true, then that extra piece that closes the gap or even eliminates it must make a difference in the S-12. What works in other guns may not necessarily work or even damage the S-12. Can any of the experts please shed some light on this?

 

If it was so critical they'd all be the same length from gun to gun - and they're not.

Edited by TwentyNizzo
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yeah exactly 5-0. I was hoping somebody would come up with a good answer, out of fear of the worst I switched back to my factory puck tonite and took the gun out. Worked almost as well : P

 

I definitely don't want to be the first to get a mangled rod or cracked BCG, etc. over a performance puck.

 

It is a great design and a good idea, but I want my saiga to last me as long as possible, so without some extensive experience/testing on it, I think im gonna keep it in the drawer for a rainy day.

 

After a day of shooting, a friend of mine was cleaning his S-12 and discovered that his puck was so saturated with filth that it had stuck in the gas bore. Started us wondering . . . if the puck becomes tight in the gas bore due to filth or even heat expansion (if that's possible). Could the stuck puck be causing the damage to the OP rod? Does the OP rod actually make contact with the piston itself? He measured the gas bore and the piston and the difference was only .003". Could heat expansion and/or addition to the filth cause the puck to bind in the bore and cause the rod to bend or break?

Edited by 5-0
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All you have to is ask and I will tell you. I answered this already here http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?/topic/66945-you-have-to-help-me-understand-this/

There is no way this will damage anything! The nipple on the back keeps the puc farther forward when the bolt is closed.

The nipple on the back stays in contact with the rod a little longer than the others as it actually goes through the end of the gas block hole.

The length of the piston without the nipple is shorter than the factory to give it a longer stroke in the gas block and the nipple keeps it up front closer to the gas ports to create less volume space when the bolt is closed.

There is still some movement with the puc, but not nearly as much as the factory. For those asking shake your gun up and down and you will hear the puc rattle a little. That means it is not bound tight and is still moving freely when the bolt is closed.

This design is not a copy of anybodies failures and it is our own. I tested a few dozen before we came up with this and believe me it does work.

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I have read several threads that lead me to believe that piston rod length is crucial and specific to gas block placement. I have been lead to believe that tampering with this can do damage to irreplaceable parts.

 

 

If the op-rod's not in far enough it may not cycle right, but how could it actually damage parts?

 

I'm actually fascinated with the new Puc & watching it closely.

I like the idea.

 

A lot of good ideas & differing approaches are happening with regards to the pucks on the guns lately & this really advances the platform.

 

We need to keep in mind that the S-12 is a relatively new design based off a very old concept & the pinnacle of design has yet to be reached.

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I ran my factory S12 with this puck, and I didn't notice anything problematic. (Dimple towards the rod, flat end facing plug, of course.) Cycled fine, but I was also using slugs

 

I also agree with the crowd that it's highly unlikely that the puck could actually hurt anything, other than the usual "maybe it might make your gun cycle harder than it nominally should", but that's a criticism you could make of almost any reliability mod.

Edited by erwos
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I love mine. The design function is obvious if you understand how firearms work. Two engineer friends of mine who examined it summed it up best by calling it a short stroke system that is working like a longstroke. By increasing the time the puc is in contact with the piston you also increase the use of available gas. As for overpowering your gun, well that's what the gas plug is for. Set it on the lowest setting when shooting unfamiliar ammo and start from there. Its not rocket science. You could also opt for that auto plug if you don't want to adjust between rounds.

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So, the next question is "what if you made that dimple longer?" Would you keep getting cycling power increases?

We made 6 different tail lengths during testing and this performed the best with the 8 guns available we used.

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CSS, I thought maybe the pic was backwards. The King Armory Tappet is nipple towards muzzle correct?

His has a small shallow bump that is even with the rim of the dish front and it does go forward.

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It would be interesting to see a 'marriage' of the KA tappet with the CSS tappet. having the nipple in contact at the point of gas pressure combined with an open face for more even gas pressure on te puck/tappet might work wonders. Ideas, anyone?

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The KA dish would defeat the purpose of the CSS nipple. The CSS nipple shrinks the gas chamber volume while keeping the rod in contact with the puck longer. The KA puck expands the gas chamber volume. At least that's my understanding of it. Although I think the CSS pucks main operating principle is the puck being in contact with the rod longer. So the combination may have little to no affect.

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A CSS tappet with a concave face would increase the power transferred to the piston. I had assumed (incorrectly) CSS was trying to increase surface area on the face, like KA & MD, but the nipple facing backwards gives the CSS tappet the same length as a regular puck but with less weight. Since it has less mass it can be moved with less force than the standard puck but still contacts the piston at the same time as the standard puck.

 

The KA & MD pucks have a concave face, giving them more surface area than a flat face of the same diameter, which means less force is required to move it than a standard flat faced puck. A CSS puck with a concave face, KA or MD puck with a nipple, would have both the reduced mass AND larger surface area on the face. That would be one fast moving puck! Combine that with an auto gas plug & you could shoot 22's & your bolt would probably still cycle.

Edited by icarus
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