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Extreme keyholing on new 5.45


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Congrats OD...glad it worked out for you. It sounds like they gave you a replacement rifle rather than a repaired one. I would imagine that was easier than replacing the barrel.

 

Thanks! Yep, replaced the rifle. RAAC said they didn't have a replacement barrel so I got a brand spanking new one. Just glad it's all over and all I'm out was time. Could have been a lot worse.

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Shoot a 223 round in it and see what happens...  

Just stay on 'em man...dont allow them to dismiss this issue! I would call Greg at CSS and see what he has to say about it.     Are you TRYING to get him killed!

Unless it's due to a brake you just added that might be nicking the bullet, send this one back for replacement. First time I've heard of a Saiga keyholing... bummer....

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Sorry for the shitty quality. Standard PG conversion complete. Tapco warsaw stock, hogue grip, bulgarian mag painted ODG as well as the factory hand guard. Don't know if I want to put the tapco saiga galil handguard back on yet. Stock feels more comfortable to me. Looking into modifying the Galil handguard as others on the forum have done.

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Yes sir. Shot it twice so far. Once before conversion to make sure it was GTG. Then again after conversion. Didn't really fire at paper that time..Just blew up various pieces of fruit. Tested out Bulgarin 30 round surplus mags as well. 1 jam on the last round out of 120 rounds. Good for now but will be looking into bullet guides soon. Also modified my tapco saiga hand guard. Looking for some high temp OD Green paint for plastic.

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Yes sir. Shot it twice so far. Once before conversion to make sure it was GTG. Then again after conversion. Didn't really fire at paper that time..Just blew up various pieces of fruit. Tested out Bulgarin 30 round surplus mags as well. 1 jam on the last round out of 120 rounds. Good for now but will be looking into bullet guides soon. Also modified my tapco saiga hand guard. Looking for some high temp OD Green paint for plastic.

 

 

I had the same problem with my Bulgarian Circle 21 mag. The follower doesn't rise up as far as it does on my UCO steel mags...they feed all thirty rounds with no bullet guide with NO problems. The Bulgy would only feed 29 and the last round slammed into the end of the barrel. I have my bullet guide installed now so I am good to go.

 

 

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I had the same problem with my Bulgarian Circle 21 mag. The follower doesn't rise up as far as it does on my UCO steel mags...they feed all thirty rounds with no bullet guide with NO problems. The Bulgy would only feed 29 and the last round slammed into the end of the barrel. I have my bullet guide installed now so I am good to go.

 

 

 

Any way to mill out the underside of the feed lips(the part that touches the casing) so the last round will rise up higher? Or is it a totally unworkable issue?

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I had the same problem with my Bulgarian Circle 21 mag. The follower doesn't rise up as far as it does on my UCO steel mags...they feed all thirty rounds with no bullet guide with NO problems. The Bulgy would only feed 29 and the last round slammed into the end of the barrel. I have my bullet guide installed now so I am good to go.

 

 

 

Any way to mill out the underside of the feed lips(the part that touches the casing) so the last round will rise up higher? Or is it a totally unworkable issue?

 

The follower in that mag is flat where as the follower in the steel mags isn't. Those followers are able to ride just a tad higher in the magazine so they worked with no BG. I have one now so it's a non issue...not to mention the fact that I like the steel mags better anyhow...the polymer mag fits very tight in to the receiver. The steel mags are just easy rock n locks. I looked at how I could maybe mod the mag but decided to just install a bullet guide so all mags would work...but then had to mod my stock Saiga mag as the BG protrudes beyond the trunnion on this one where on my 7.62 build it does not.

 

 

 

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What ammo were you using? And there was another thread on a different forum that said the 5.45 round is not stabilized at short distances, I noticed you mentioned you were shooting at less than 25 feet for all of your shots, try shooting at 50 and 100 yards, just a suggestion, I dont know whether or not its true that the 5.45 does not stabilize at short distances, but it is a peculiar round that was designed to yaw upon impact and cause severe wounds and wound channel.

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Just fired my unconverted Saiga 5.45 using surplus ammo. Rifle is a Legion Mercury-Herms. Serial number is H0988****L

 

Keyholed 1/5 shots at 25 yards, 5/5 shots at 15 yards (extreme - almost 90* impacts), and 5/5 at 10 yards (mild keyholing).

 

Said "well, this sucks" and proceeded to shoot the rest of my 310 round range feed through the gun without a problem (had last round jams on 3/10 mags, so this round trunnion needs a bullet guide).

 

I'll be doing some twist rate comparisons of this barrel to my 5.45x39 AR15. It shoots the same ammo with spooky accuracy and absolutely no keyholing.

 

It is unacceptable to live with a rifle that keyholes with the most common grain ammunition available for it's chambering. It is also foolish to think that air resistance is supposed to stabilize a projectile that has left the bore - that is what the rifling is for.

 

 

 

 

I wonder if a factory worker accidentally picked up a 5.56 barrel blank and chambered it for 5.45. I'll find out tonight I guess.

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Just fired my unconverted Saiga 5.45 using surplus ammo. Rifle is a Legion Mercury-Herms. Serial number is H0988****L

 

Keyholed 1/5 shots at 25 yards, 5/5 shots at 15 yards (extreme - almost 90* impacts), and 5/5 at 10 yards (mild keyholing).

 

Said "well, this sucks" and proceeded to shoot the rest of my 310 round range feed through the gun without a problem (had last round jams on 3/10 mags, so this round trunnion needs a bullet guide).

 

I'll be doing some twist rate comparisons of this barrel to my 5.45x39 AR15. It shoots the same ammo with spooky accuracy and absolutely no keyholing.

 

It is unacceptable to live with a rifle that keyholes with the most common grain ammunition available for it's chambering. It is also foolish to think that air resistance is supposed to stabilize a projectile that has left the bore - that is what the rifling is for.

 

 

 

 

I wonder if a factory worker accidentally picked up a 5.56 barrel blank and chambered it for 5.45. I'll find out tonight I guess.

 

So this is a new rifle you shot for the first time? What month/year was your rifle made?

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I'd rather have a rifle that properly stabilizes the projectile. I shoot all my rifles, save .22LR, out to 600 yards, and this plain ol won't cut it.

 

This surplus ammo is just dang-gon spooky accurate out of my AR15 - more accurate than my 5.56 AR15 with 77 grain match ammo. :lolol:

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I'd rather have a rifle that properly stabilizes the projectile. I shoot all my rifles, save .22LR, out to 600 yards, and this plain ol won't cut it.

 

This surplus ammo is just dang-gon spooky accurate out of my AR15 - more accurate than my 5.56 AR15 with 77 grain match ammo. :lolol:

 

 

Which 5.45 AR do you have?

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I'd rather have a rifle that properly stabilizes the projectile. I shoot all my rifles, save .22LR, out to 600 yards, and this plain ol won't cut it.

 

This surplus ammo is just dang-gon spooky accurate out of my AR15 - more accurate than my 5.56 AR15 with 77 grain match ammo. :lolol:

 

I didn't know they had other manufacturers of 5.45 uppers other than S&W. I sooo want one!

 

Which 5.45 AR do you have?

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