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ODGreenThumb

Extreme keyholing on new 5.45

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I was wondering if anybody can help me out here. I bought a new 5.45x39 saiga from CSS a few weeks ago and did the pistol grip conversion. When I shot it today, I was getting keyholes on every round into the paper. Only shot from about 50 feet, 25 feet, and 10 feet. Shout about 30 rounds and all except for the first 10 keyholed. The first 10 still had slightly elongated shaped holes. I don't know where to go from here and am pretty disappointed. I was shooting Russian milsurp. I plan on trying some different ammo next trip, but I'm not getting my hopes up. I know thats pretty close range but I still wouldn't think that it should be performing like this. Can anybody help? Pictures attached.

 

First pic is the last three rounds I fired. Second pic was my cousin shooting from 25 feet. The non-keyhole rounds in both pics were from different guns/calibers. Really bummed out...

post-33433-0-29415700-1306103140_thumb.jpg

post-33433-0-63716200-1306103173_thumb.jpg

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Holy $h!t, thats not good! I hope Ivan isnt slippin up and sending us "Vodka Special" rifles now!!! You may have just gotten a bad batch of ammo, but then again, I hope they didnt screwup like Century did for a while and started putting .223 barrels on the 5.45 thus giving an incorrect barrel diameter. I know "tumbling" is in the 545's nature, but thats just nuts!

 

You might wanna send that gun back and exchange it if you can

Edited by RoughRider666

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That gun needs to be sent back and replaced. Dont waste another SECOND with it!!!!!!!!!

 

 

OH crap, you converted it.......Call cadiz gunworks for warranty work and talk to Tom, tell him whats going on and that you want a rifle replacement.

Edited by veprk
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Unless it's due to a brake you just added that might be nicking the bullet, send this one back for replacement. First time I've heard of a Saiga keyholing... bummer....

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Unless it's due to a brake you just added that might be nicking the bullet, send this one back for replacement. First time I've heard of a Saiga keyholing... bummer....

 

Agreed...post pix of the Rifle itself...inside and out and list EVERYTHING you have done to it.

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No brake, so that's not the issue. Thanks for the replies. Who should I contact or can I contact anyone since I've converted it. I bought the rifle and conversion kit from Carolina Shooters Supply. Only thing I've done is pistol grip conversion and tapco g2 trigger kit. And saiga galil handguard. more pics coming

post-33433-0-96935400-1306109534_thumb.jpg

Edited by ODGreenThumb

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Unless it's due to a brake you just added that might be nicking the bullet, send this one back for replacement. First time I've heard of a Saiga keyholing... bummer....

 

A vendor did mention to me about a Legion Saiga keyholing. he told be to double check my targets for it after shooting.

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It is a Legion Mercury Hermes. I just hope I'm not totally screwed on this whole deal. I contacted Mercury Hermes and he told me to call back tomorrow. It was rather strange. I've got a bad feeling about this. FML!!!

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Shoot a 223 round in it and see what happens...

 

It is a Legion Mercury Hermes. I just hope I'm not totally screwed on this whole deal. I contacted Mercury Hermes and he told me to call back tomorrow. It was rather strange. I've got a bad feeling about this. FML!!!

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Shoot a 223 round in it and see what happens...

 

It is a Legion Mercury Hermes. I just hope I'm not totally screwed on this whole deal. I contacted Mercury Hermes and he told me to call back tomorrow. It was rather strange. I've got a bad feeling about this. FML!!!

 

Is that safe? lol

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I tend to fire my Saiga before I convert them.. which most of this boards long-time users reinforce..

 

sorry about your issues though..

 

I was lucky with my 545 as I just did the conversion then fired it.. :killer:

 

my 762x39 I also just 'fired it'... my S308 I did test prior to converting..

 

I would NOT try to fire a 223 round.. :cryss:

 

 

 

Al

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Hey OD, if ya could, take off your hand guard and take another pic of where your barrel meets your receiver. Possibly there is a cant in the barrel on that end??

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Hey OD, if ya could, take off your hand guard and take another pic of where your barrel meets your receiver. Possibly there is a cant in the barrel on that end??

 

Hey OD, if ya could, take off your hand guard and take another pic of where your barrel meets your receiver. Possibly there is a cant in the barrel on that end??

post-33433-0-70643600-1306116927_thumb.jpg

post-33433-0-00009500-1306117052_thumb.jpg

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Hey OD, if ya could, take off your hand guard and take another pic of where your barrel meets your receiver. Possibly there is a cant in the barrel on that end??

 

Hey OD, if ya could, take off your hand guard and take another pic of where your barrel meets your receiver. Possibly there is a cant in the barrel on that end??

 

Am I giving you the right angle here? Looking into the receiver, it does look to be tilted a little bit (pic on the right in previous post). Right side is definitely a little higher.

post-33433-0-33946700-1306117205_thumb.jpg

Edited by ODGreenThumb

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I tend to fire my Saiga before I convert them.. which most of this boards long-time users reinforce..

 

sorry about your issues though..

 

I was lucky with my 545 as I just did the conversion then fired it.. :killer:

 

my 762x39 I also just 'fired it'... my S308 I did test prior to converting..

 

I would NOT try to fire a 223 round.. :cryss:

 

 

 

Al

 

Yeah, looking back i DEFINITLY should have test fired it before the conversion. And no... I will not be attempting to shoot a .223! haha

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I second the call to Cadiz Gun Works. They should be able to make you right.

 

Good call. I got an email into them. Hopefully hear something back fro them tomorrow. They're in Ohio like me... but 3.5 hours away. So I'll probably have to pay FFL transfer fees (again) and all that jazz?

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I second the call to Cadiz Gun Works. They should be able to make you right.

 

Good call. I got an email into them. Hopefully hear something back fro them tomorrow. They're in Ohio like me... but 3.5 hours away. So I'll probably have to pay FFL transfer fees (again) and all that jazz?

 

Cadiz had a fire a week or so back. lets hope that he's back up and running.

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?/topic/66628-shop-fire-today/

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I second the call to Cadiz Gun Works. They should be able to make you right.

 

Good call. I got an email into them. Hopefully hear something back fro them tomorrow. They're in Ohio like me... but 3.5 hours away. So I'll probably have to pay FFL transfer fees (again) and all that jazz?

 

Cadiz had a fire a week or so back. lets hope that he's back up and running.

http://forum.saiga-1...hop-fire-today/

 

Wow, that sucks. Hope it was too bad of a fire.

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But how could the first 10 shoot fine but the rest key hole?

 

 

The first time you shot did you rapid fire? This round is a high intensity type that is very unstable. Just bullet fouling could cause this. What you have is worst then the CAI shit.

 

 

I'd check the bore to see if you have some type of fouling. Might be from jacket material. Use a bore light.

 

 

If the construction was bad all shots would be bad! Clean the hell out of the barrel.

 

Then re-fire.

 

Opps! Didn't see the note of the first 10 slightly out of round.

 

Sorry, you'r screwed!

Edited by Fluid Power

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Bullet drop test? Forgot the name. Take an unfired round and put the bullet nose down into the front of the barrel. See how far it will go. The casing should not touch the barrel.

 

This is a common test for those purchasing RPK kits to guesstimate how many rounds have been put down the barrel. I'd figure it would also let you know if you some how got a 5.56 barrel instead of a 5.45...

 

M72_1.jpg

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Bullet drop test? Forgot the name. Take an unfired round and put the bullet nose down into the front of the barrel. See how far it will go. The casing should not touch the barrel.

 

This is a common test for those purchasing RPK kits to guesstimate how many rounds have been put down the barrel. I'd figure it would also let you know if you some how got a 5.56 barrel instead of a 5.45...

 

M72_1.jpg

 

I did that test. All appears good. Bullet tip goes in snug with maybe only a quarter of an inch (didn't measure) but compared it to my buddies AK-74 with no keyhole issues, and it sits in the same on his. I've ordered some different ammo and have calls in to the distributor and Cadiz. Trying to remain patient! Just hope I don't have a unusable lemon.

 

Is there a way to rebarrel a Saiga 5.45x39? Maybe with a true AK 74 with muzzle brake and the whole 9? I'm new to the AK/Saiga world. All posts and responses much appreciated. Thanks!

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But how could the first 10 shoot fine but the rest key hole?

 

 

The first time you shot did you rapid fire? This round is a high intensity type that is very unstable. Just bullet fouling could cause this. What you have is worst then the CAI shit.

 

 

I'd check the bore to see if you have some type of fouling. Might be from jacket material. Use a bore light.

 

 

If the construction was bad all shots would be bad! Clean the hell out of the barrel.

 

Then re-fire.

 

Opps! Didn't see the note of the first 10 slightly out of round.

 

Sorry, you'r screwed!

 

Nope, did not rapid fire. I cleaned the heck out of it after shooting yesterday, going to attempt shooting it again but not getting my hopes up. Bore looks good now and did prior to shooting. Greg from Carolina Shooters Supply seems to think that it's the ammo, which was russian surplus. I hope that no ammo could ever produce keyholes like that. Willing to try anything though. Sigh.....

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It is a Legion Mercury Hermes. I just hope I'm not totally screwed on this whole deal. I contacted Mercury Hermes and he told me to call back tomorrow. It was rather strange. I've got a bad feeling about this. FML!!!

 

Just stay on 'em man...dont allow them to dismiss this issue! I would call Greg at CSS and see what he has to say about it.

 

Shoot a 223 round in it and see what happens...

 

It is a Legion Mercury Hermes. I just hope I'm not totally screwed on this whole deal. I contacted Mercury Hermes and he told me to call back tomorrow. It was rather strange. I've got a bad feeling about this. FML!!!

 

Are you TRYING to get him killed!

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Man, that is a terrible ordeal, sorry to hear it. Glad I didn't have keyholing before hacking away, this should be a 'why to shoot the gun before converting' sticky.

 

I hope everything turns out okay! Let us know what's up!

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It is a Legion Mercury Hermes. I just hope I'm not totally screwed on this whole deal. I contacted Mercury Hermes and he told me to call back tomorrow. It was rather strange. I've got a bad feeling about this. FML!!!

 

Just stay on 'em man...dont allow them to dismiss this issue! I would call Greg at CSS and see what he has to say about it.

 

Shoot a 223 round in it and see what happens...

 

It is a Legion Mercury Hermes. I just hope I'm not totally screwed on this whole deal. I contacted Mercury Hermes and he told me to call back tomorrow. It was rather strange. I've got a bad feeling about this. FML!!!

 

Are you TRYING to get him killed!

 

 

Thanks man. I did email greg back and forth a few times. He was as shocked as I was at the pictures. He did question the ammo and thinks that the ammo might be the problem. I'm not so sure but am willing to give it a go. Ordered some silver bear and wolf, now I'm playing the waiting game. Also talked to a guy at RAA who was very nice. He told me that this definitely peaked his curiosity and also recommended different ammo. He also assure me that they would work on it if this isn't the problem. He said they've not had this problem before. Keeping my fingers crossed!!! And yeah, I'm a saiga/ak noob but have enough sense to not attempt to shoot a .223! LOL

 

 

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