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ODGreenThumb

Extreme keyholing on new 5.45

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Holy crap man!

I don't see any way the ammo could be the problem, not shooting that close. Maybe if the bullets were loaded backwards...lol.

 

:wacko:

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Holy crap man!

I don't see any way the ammo could be the problem, not shooting that close. Maybe if the bullets were loaded backwards...lol.

 

:wacko:

 

LOL yeah man, looks like those keyholes were produced by shooting a 5.45 projectile from a sling shot!!! Sucks I have to wait for new ammo to be shipped before I can take any action on it. I hope the fact that I did a pistol grip conversion doesn't void the warranty. I know that there is nothing that I could have possible done to cause this. I followed a few different tutorials found through this forum and went slow, slow, slow, with the help of my good friend Patient Bear. 009.gif

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Holy crap man!

I don't see any way the ammo could be the problem, not shooting that close. Maybe if the bullets were loaded backwards...lol.

 

:wacko:

 

LOL yeah man, looks like those keyholes were produced by shooting a 5.45 projectile from a sling shot!!! Sucks I have to wait for new ammo to be shipped before I can take any action on it. I hope the fact that I did a pistol grip conversion doesn't void the warranty. I know that there is nothing that I could have possible done to cause this. I followed a few different tutorials found through this forum and went slow, slow, slow, with the help of my good friend Patient Bear. 009.gif

I got it confirmed from the Warranty provider that a conversion does not void warranty, at least on the shotguns, as long as you haven't messed anything up doing it.

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I second the call to Cadiz Gun Works. They should be able to make you right.

 

Good call. I got an email into them. Hopefully hear something back fro them tomorrow. They're in Ohio like me... but 3.5 hours away. So I'll probably have to pay FFL transfer fees (again) and all that jazz?

You can send your gun to a licensed gunsmith directly--no transfer $ involved.

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Holy crap man!

I don't see any way the ammo could be the problem, not shooting that close. Maybe if the bullets were loaded backwards...lol.

 

:wacko:

 

LOL yeah man, looks like those keyholes were produced by shooting a 5.45 projectile from a sling shot!!! Sucks I have to wait for new ammo to be shipped before I can take any action on it. I hope the fact that I did a pistol grip conversion doesn't void the warranty. I know that there is nothing that I could have possible done to cause this. I followed a few different tutorials found through this forum and went slow, slow, slow, with the help of my good friend Patient Bear. 009.gif

I got it confirmed from the Warranty provider that a conversion does not void warranty, at least on the shotguns, as long as you haven't messed anything up doing it.

 

 

Thanks man, that takes a load off my mind. I know nothing I did could have caused this issue. The conversion process was fairly easy, I took my time, and didn't have any problems. I can't even think of a way a pistol grip conversion, tapco trigger, and new tapco furniture could make the gun keyhole to that extreme.

 

 

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I second the call to Cadiz Gun Works. They should be able to make you right.

 

Good call. I got an email into them. Hopefully hear something back fro them tomorrow. They're in Ohio like me... but 3.5 hours away. So I'll probably have to pay FFL transfer fees (again) and all that jazz?

You can send your gun to a licensed gunsmith directly--no transfer $ involved.

 

Really? I was under the impression you couldn't ship firearms period. Thanks for the input. I want to get this thing straightened out without having to sink more $$$ into it.

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Yes shipping to an FFL for repair is GTG.. and they will ship directly back to you..

 

the only real PITA state is NJ for pistols.. if the mfg decides to send you a replacement with a different FFL (like Glock did to me back in 2002).. I had to get another pistol permit from my local NJ PD for the damn thing. :chris:

 

 

Al

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Yes shipping to an FFL for repair is GTG.. and they will ship directly back to you..

 

the only real PITA state is NJ for pistols.. if the mfg decides to send you a replacement with a different FFL (like Glock did to me back in 2002).. I had to get another pistol permit from my local NJ PD for the damn thing. :chris:

 

 

Al

 

Good to know, thanks man

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Did yours come with an inspection booklet with the "certificate of accuracy" ? If the factory shot five shots that weren't half bad, maybe it is something about the ammo. You'd figure they'd catch one that was acting like a complete sewer pipe.

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Did yours come with an inspection booklet with the "certificate of accuracy" ? If the factory shot five shots that weren't half bad, maybe it is something about the ammo. You'd figure they'd catch one that was acting like a complete sewer pipe.

 

Yes, it did come with the certificate. Interestingly enough, the original russian writing is covered up with a thin white sticker that says "POCC RU MX03. B01946 OT 21.09.2010r". Underneath the sticker is handwritten and is very hard to read but contains a different set of numbers. Do they normally cover up the handwritten "certificate of conformity" with a sticker? Also the name field is left blank? Nobody wanted to claim this turd? LOL

 

Oh Left out the the (accuracy of fire) claims 126 mm.

Edited by ODGreenThumb

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I am very curiouse to find out what your problem is. Please keep us updated.

 

You all will be the first to know. I really appreciate the help from all forum members regarding this issue. Now if the damn ammo would just get here so I could test it out. I still cant understand how it could be ammo related.

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As to your question of rebarreling a Saiga, yes it could be done but it's not an expense you would want to assume. Definitely send it back if you determine ammo wasn't the problem.

 

People who have done conversions in the past, and needed warranty work done, said that RAA was understanding and didn't feel that this necessarily voided the warranty.

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My certificate had the same white strip sticker over a hand written something. I can't read Russian nor do I know what it stands for. Also, my field name was left black, but an inspection stamp with initials was not too far off that line. Accuracy was 132mm.

 

Did yours come with an inspection booklet with the "certificate of accuracy" ? If the factory shot five shots that weren't half bad, maybe it is something about the ammo. You'd figure they'd catch one that was acting like a complete sewer pipe.

 

Yes, it did come with the certificate. Interestingly enough, the original russian writing is covered up with a thin white sticker that says "POCC RU MX03. B01946 OT 21.09.2010r". Underneath the sticker is handwritten and is very hard to read but contains a different set of numbers. Do they normally cover up the handwritten "certificate of conformity" with a sticker? Also the name field is left blank? Nobody wanted to claim this turd? LOL

 

Oh Left out the the (accuracy of fire) claims 126 mm.

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As to your question of rebarreling a Saiga, yes it could be done but it's not an expense you would want to assume. Definitely send it back if you determine ammo wasn't the problem.

 

People who have done conversions in the past, and needed warranty work done, said that RAA was understanding and didn't feel that this necessarily voided the warranty.

 

That's great to hear. I was hoping that they would be understanding since I'm guessing a majority of their customers end up converting. Every gun I've ever purchased I hang on to, so I take great care of them. I wouldn't have done anything to cause this type of problem. Let's just hope it was the worst 1080 rounds of ammo ever produced.... even though my buddies 5.45 AR and bulgy 74 haven't had problems with the same ammo.

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My certificate had the same white strip sticker over a hand written something. I can't read Russian nor do I know what it stands for. Also, my field name was left black, but an inspection stamp with initials was not too far off that line. Accuracy was 132mm.

 

Did yours come with an inspection booklet with the "certificate of accuracy" ? If the factory shot five shots that weren't half bad, maybe it is something about the ammo. You'd figure they'd catch one that was acting like a complete sewer pipe.

 

Yes, it did come with the certificate. Interestingly enough, the original russian writing is covered up with a thin white sticker that says "POCC RU MX03. B01946 OT 21.09.2010r". Underneath the sticker is handwritten and is very hard to read but contains a different set of numbers. Do they normally cover up the handwritten "certificate of conformity" with a sticker? Also the name field is left blank? Nobody wanted to claim this turd? LOL

 

Oh Left out the the (accuracy of fire) claims 126 mm.

 

 

Something tells me these are not the most sophisticated accuracy test and I'm not sure I trust them, or even if they matter. I imagine they pump them out pretty fast. Apparently mine is more accurate keyholer than your non-keyholer lol

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Different weights take different twist rates to become stable. That said, I'm not sure what's available in 5.45.

 

Note the comment on steel core in this link-

http://izhevsk.club....ng/barnaul.html

 

Thanks for the link. Interesting stuff. I would still figure that surplus russian 5.45 would function flawlessly in a Russian 5.45 though. I'm stumped.

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The more I look at the gun (out of curiosity and frustration) the more I notice that things are a little off with the build. Where the barrel meets the receiver (not sure the tech term) it appears to be canted a decent amount. Almost to where the right side is not flush with the receiver. Also, the rear sight is crooked and off center. I know that this can be typical in the AK world though. I keep checking the bore with a flashlight (no bore light available) and I keep thinking I'm seeing oddities, like lines not coinciding with the rifling. Cant confirm though, could be my eyes playing tricks on me.

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Stick a bullet in the end of the barrel, make sure you don't have a 7.62 barrel in that thing!

 

Pretty sure I don't. Stuck a 5.45 in the end and it sits the same as my buddies bulgy 74.

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The more I look at the gun (out of curiosity and frustration) the more I notice that things are a little off with the build. Where the barrel meets the receiver (not sure the tech term) it appears to be canted a decent amount. Almost to where the right side is not flush with the receiver. Also, the rear sight is crooked and off center. I know that this can be typical in the AK world though. I keep checking the bore with a flashlight (no bore light available) and I keep thinking I'm seeing oddities, like lines not coinciding with the rifling. Cant confirm though, could be my eyes playing tricks on me.

 

 

Most gunsmiths will look down your bore with a bore-scope for a minimal charge (if any), this would be my next move if this gun was mine. If your barrel has any rifling at all its gotta be so badly fucked up that it might as well be a smooth bore, a few minutes with a bore-scope would end the guessing game.

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The more I look at the gun (out of curiosity and frustration) the more I notice that things are a little off with the build. Where the barrel meets the receiver (not sure the tech term) it appears to be canted a decent amount. Almost to where the right side is not flush with the receiver. Also, the rear sight is crooked and off center. I know that this can be typical in the AK world though. I keep checking the bore with a flashlight (no bore light available) and I keep thinking I'm seeing oddities, like lines not coinciding with the rifling. Cant confirm though, could be my eyes playing tricks on me.

 

 

Pics of these things?

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The more I look at the gun (out of curiosity and frustration) the more I notice that things are a little off with the build. Where the barrel meets the receiver (not sure the tech term) it appears to be canted a decent amount. Almost to where the right side is not flush with the receiver. Also, the rear sight is crooked and off center. I know that this can be typical in the AK world though. I keep checking the bore with a flashlight (no bore light available) and I keep thinking I'm seeing oddities, like lines not coinciding with the rifling. Cant confirm though, could be my eyes playing tricks on me.

 

 

Most gunsmiths will look down your bore with a bore-scope for a minimal charge (if any), this would be my next move if this gun was mine. If your barrel has any rifling at all its gotta be so badly fucked up that it might as well be a smooth bore, a few minutes with a bore-scope would end the guessing game.

 

Thanks. Taking it to the shop tomorrow.

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The more I look at the gun (out of curiosity and frustration) the more I notice that things are a little off with the build. Where the barrel meets the receiver (not sure the tech term) it appears to be canted a decent amount. Almost to where the right side is not flush with the receiver. Also, the rear sight is crooked and off center. I know that this can be typical in the AK world though. I keep checking the bore with a flashlight (no bore light available) and I keep thinking I'm seeing oddities, like lines not coinciding with the rifling. Cant confirm though, could be my eyes playing tricks on me.

 

 

Pics of these things?

post-33433-0-00646600-1306282652_thumb.jpg

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The more I look at the gun (out of curiosity and frustration) the more I notice that things are a little off with the build. Where the barrel meets the receiver (not sure the tech term) it appears to be canted a decent amount. Almost to where the right side is not flush with the receiver. Also, the rear sight is crooked and off center. I know that this can be typical in the AK world though. I keep checking the bore with a flashlight (no bore light available) and I keep thinking I'm seeing oddities, like lines not coinciding with the rifling. Cant confirm though, could be my eyes playing tricks on me.

 

 

Pics of these things?

 

sorry pic is upside down. It's not on my computer...

post-33433-0-70530400-1306282741_thumb.jpg

Edited by ODGreenThumb

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Okay, here's the latest update. Took it to my local shop, Smith said bore/rifling etc. look absolutely perfect. Checked everywhere he could see and couldn't see any flaws that would cause this. He did mention that he's heard about surplus russian 5.45x39 that so out of spec it won't stabilize. He also commented on how saiga makes "great guns.... well for an AK that is". (AR guy). Just waiting on my silver bear, wolf, and different surplus to get in...

Edited by ODGreenThumb

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I would like to hear about anyone else having issues with 7n6 ammo as this is all I will probably shoot out of my saiga... I would be so pissed if I dropped $160 on a case of ammo that key holed that bad.

 

Okay, here's the latest update. Took it to my local shop, Smith said bore/rifling etc. look absolutely perfect. Checked everywhere he could see and couldn't see any flaws that would cause this. He did mention that he's heard about surplus russian 5.45x39 that so out of spec it won't stabilize. He also commented on how saiga makes "great guns.... well for an AK that is". (AR guy). Just waiting on my silver bear, wolf, and different surplus to get in...

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I would like to hear about anyone else having issues with 7n6 ammo as this is all I will probably shoot out of my saiga... I would be so pissed if I dropped $160 on a case of ammo that key holed that bad.

 

Okay, here's the latest update. Took it to my local shop, Smith said bore/rifling etc. look absolutely perfect. Checked everywhere he could see and couldn't see any flaws that would cause this. He did mention that he's heard about surplus russian 5.45x39 that so out of spec it won't stabilize. He also commented on how saiga makes "great guns.... well for an AK that is". (AR guy). Just waiting on my silver bear, wolf, and different surplus to get in...

 

I've never heard of results this extreme. It's still up in the air at this point. I bought the ammo of my borther in-law who got it from AIM. He and another one of my friends split a case and neither of them have had problems that they noticed anyway.

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Good idea to try some other brands of ammo before comming to a conclusion. I guess it's possible that the Russians are surplusing lots of ammo known to have issues?

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