Man murdered for telling the cops they need a warrant to enter his hom

[Jpanzer 1,265]

Read this story tonight: Murder by police

 

I tell you, this combined with the murder of the Arizona marine vet by the Pima County SWAT team this month demonstrate plainly to me that our 4th amendment rights don't mean shit anymore.

 

IF they are gonna kill you for verbally refusing entry you might as well make it a little harder for them to take you out IMHO....

[chevyman097 2,579]

popcorn

[GREYLUPO 358]

I hope those fuckers get thrown in jail and lose all their rights and cant sleep in a warm bed with their wives anymore.

[MT Predator 2,294]

Fuck, here we go with cop bashing again. I think lots of these incidents are misrepresented by the media. My brother, (LEO/SERT) guy could tell you lots of stories to make you appreciate our Law Enforcement Professionals. Shit you and I don't want to deal with. Please lay off the anti-LEO sentiments.

[GeorgiaPD 408]

Read this story tonight: Murder by police

 

I tell you, this combined with the murder of the Arizona marine vet by the Pima County SWAT team this month demonstrate plainly to me that our 4th amendment rights don't mean shit anymore.

 

 

 

It should tell you that your Fourth Amendment Rights don't mean shit to SOME people anymore. Trust me, I'm just as tired of seeing this crap come up as the next person and I'm glad that the Troopers directly involved are being charged the same as any non-leo would be charged, if the story has not been construed/biased in any way by the media. I can assure you that not everyone that took an oath to protect the Constitution of the United States is a donut eating jack boot thug with an attitude, 1970's mustache, aviator glasses and small penis complex. Unfortunately, the bad actions of one, twelve or one hundred have serious and potential consequences for the rest of leo's that are trying to do the right thing. I'm a firm believer in the saying "You sleep in the bed that you make!" If the actual incident occured the way that the story describes, then the troopers took a dump in their bed and now they will be sleeping in it. Enough said

Edited May 29, 2011 by GeorgiaPD

[MT Predator 2,294]

I agree with GAPD but I'm getting tired of seeing this shit on this forum whether the LEOs are guilty of a crime or not. Seems like anything anti-government or law enforcement related spawns on this great forum. Can we not spare some space on this forum and read this somewhere else instead?

[poolingmyignorance 2,191]

The officers are being charged criminaly. Which if accounts are accurate they are indeed criminals. So yea it's fucked up, but this seems like one case where things whent bad but it was recognized as bad. Although its hard to answer"who do you call when it's the police assulting you?"

[kodaline 178]

Wanting police to not exceed the boundaries of their authority is not cop bashing.

[EnzNow 14]

 

I tell you, this combined with the murder of the Arizona marine vet by the Pima County SWAT team this month demonstrate plainly to me that our 4th amendment rights don't mean shit anymore.

 

 

I don't think we have the whole story with this former-marine in Tucson. Just because he is former US military doesn't mean he can't get mixed up with drug cartels. All I can say is we have to wait for the evidence to come out before we pass judgement. I'm thinking they sent SWAT in for a reason. BTW...the Sherrifs office had some form of a search warrent, so I don't think 4th ammendment was violated, I could be wrong?

 

-EnzNow

Edited May 29, 2011 by EnzNow

[Mayor Al 41]

Indiana passed a no warrent needed for entry law that is being challenged in the courts as a violation of the citizen's civil rights. Hopefully the law will be oveturned shortly, but already there have been several incidents of unlawful entry by Police in the Hoosier State. This not a cop-bashing post, it is a reminder that without legal limits well-defined, there will always be those on both-sides of the law who go to extremes in testing what they can or can't do.

[ktcm7271 999]

Get used to no knock violence.

 

W. made damn sure it could continue...remember Clinton attacking U.S. citizens?

 

Remember the Patriot act?

 

It got renewed by our current president via text from France at the last minute. Only Rand Paul fought it. (I hate that racist prick, but he was right).

 

"Never trade your freedom for the illusion of safety" George Carlin.

 

In 1975, $3.50/hour bought a car every 5 years, a one earning family, etc. Wake the fuck up!

[Jpanzer 1,265]

GeorgiaPD, I know not all LEO's are bad apples. But I DO know that whenever these kinds of things happen it sends red flags up everywhere for me. If I go to another mans home and try to enter and get shot then it was a attempted home invasion and I got what I deserved. But cops have the judicial authority to do this (with a warrant)... and thats a BIG difference. With that power should come the resposibility to exercise it in a lawful and correct manner.

 

From what the story told the most serious charges brought against these troopers was second-degree assault and criminally negligent homicide. And thats a damn farce in my opinion, and another example of the courts giviing a nod and a wink to this behavior.

 

And MT Predator I'm sorry if it hits a raw nerve with you because your brother is a LEO, but these stories NEED to be publicized and NOT swept under the rug, because thats the only way these incidents can ever be brought under control. No matter how much you want to pretend it didn't happpen and it's bullshit it ain't gonna change the fact they gunned a man down in cold blood just because he pissed them off....

Edited May 29, 2011 by Jpanzer

[Jpanzer 1,265]

Get used to no knock violence.

 

W. made damn sure it could continue...remember Clinton attacking U.S. citizens?

 

Remember the Patriot act?

 

It got renewed by our current president via text from France at the last minute. Only Rand Paul fought it. (I hate that racist prick, but he was right).

 

"Never trade your freedom for the illusion of safety" George Carlin.

 

In 1975, $3.50/hour bought a car every 5 years, a one earning family, etc. Wake the fuck up!

 

 

Rand Paul wasn't the only guy to try to warn people about the "Patriot Act":secret-patriot-act

 

But the rest of the mindless herd follow right along behind one another and supported it...

Edited May 29, 2011 by Jpanzer

[zenman223 460]

I was just thinking yesterday, if the police get called for WHATEVER reason, If you decide you dont want to talk to them your in trouble because they will not leave! It doesnt matter why they originally came, You can be the one who called but once their outside your house their NOT leaving until their satisfied.

 

Telling the police to go away and leave you alone b/c you have not committed a crime is not an option. You have no choice but lay down your arms and surrender peacefully or they will eventually come IN and possibly shoot you b/c you refused to come out. How the hell is it Ok for the police to come in and get you if you wont come out? Usually based on some crap about your mental state, This sounds like a huge violation of 4th amendment rights to me and its been going on for years!!

Not cop bashing, Just sayin. I dont understand how this is justified.

Edited May 29, 2011 by big-J

[JamesLi 47]

Everyone tells the truth and is innocent. Unless you are the cop. Then you are a lying, guilty pig who deserves to die, die, die.

[G O B 3,516]

Fuck, here we go with cop bashing again. I think lots of these incidents are misrepresented by the media. My brother, (LEO/SERT) guy could tell you lots of stories to make you appreciate our Law Enforcement Professionals. Shit you and I don't want to deal with. Please lay off the anti-LEO sentiments.

Out of ANY group of 100 people 4 are are a complete WASTE of skin. I support the brave and HONEST men and women in blue.... BUT....the mindless support of the few who should never have been accepted for training and the increasing trend of the trainers to teach the US against THEM mentality is creating a deadly disconnect between the Police and the Policed! Piss poor training that makes Cops THINK they are SEAL Team 6, combined with accepting Mall Ninjas for the Police academy is doing BOTH the Police AND the People a grave and DANGEROUS disservice! And those who stand firmly behind the "BLUE LINE" are the WORST assassins of liberty!

[BpS12 512]

I've gotta go with GOB on this. I've got ten years working as/with LEOs and I can tell you that there are those FEW, that should NEVER be behind the Sheild. And others that are borderline. Personal egos, attitudes and agendas should never get in the way of upholding the law. And you DAMN well should not be upholding something against others, that you yourself are breaking, ei speeding/seatbelt laws, etc.

 

That said, MT is also right in that the article doesn't give us ALL the facts. Only the court docs will do that, hopefully. The media has a way of twisting things to sell papers/inter net ad space.

 

MOST LEOs are damn good people dealing with shit the many of us just ignore. But they need to be weeding out the bad one their own, before the pulic needs to. Unfortunately, unionization(with all of its good) has made that difficult.

 

When we remember our fallen this weekend, we also need to remember those in the LE/EMS community that have given their lives.

[BeefEater 27]

I agree with GAPD but I'm getting tired of seeing this shit on this forum whether the LEOs are guilty of a crime or not. Seems like anything anti-government or law enforcement related spawns on this great forum. Can we not spare some space on this forum and read this somewhere else instead?

 

What else do you expect from a forum populated by low income crazies out in the woods? Anything conspiracy, anti-Obama, or anti-cop gets eaten right up, no matter how little sense it makes.

 

Honestly, I'm surprised there aren't dozens of racist threads as well.

Edited May 29, 2011 by BeefEater

[22_Shooter 1,560]

Wanting police to not exceed the boundaries of their authority is not cop bashing.

 

No one will argue that. I agree 100%.

 

But the problem with these types of threads, is that they do nothing but turn into bickering, hitting the - sign next to people's posts, people getting angry, etc, etc, etc. I've yet to see one good thing come from one of these types of threads......and we've had plenty of them.

 

[BeefEater 27]

I don't think we have the whole story with this former-marine in Tucson. Just because he is former US military doesn't mean he can't get mixed up with drug cartels. All I can say is we have to wait for the evidence to come out before we pass judgement. I'm thinking they sent SWAT in for a reason. BTW...the Sherrifs office had some form of a search warrent, so I don't think 4th ammendment was violated, I could be wrong?

 

-EnzNow

 

Correct, there was a search warrant in the case of the former Marine's home. The police also blared the sirens for quite some time, as well as yelled from the door "POLICE! SEARCH WARRANT!" for quite some time. Video of the raid is available online now.

 

I suspect that the Marine was, in fact, involved in some sort of drug/burglary ring as originally suspected. The county sheriff's office likely did him and his family a favor actually, by not releasing any details publicly and sparing him the shame due to his prior military service being appreciated.

 

 

 

[bigj480 203]

MT Predator

Fuck, here we go with cop bashing again.

 

I can see how the tone of the OPs post could make you feel that way, but I've seen the "cop bashing" label thrown around a bit much on gun forums in general. You didn't even give the thread a chance....

 

MT Predator

I think lots of these incidents are misrepresented by the media. My brother, (LEO/SERT) guy could tell you lots of stories to make you appreciate our Law Enforcement Professionals. Shit you and I don't want to deal with. Please lay off the anti-LEO sentiments.

 

 

At least you admit that you first sentence is purely your opinion. From what I have seen, the local media actually is slow to say anything that is not fact, they use a lot of "wiggle words", like "they claim", "suspected", and "according to". Now, from small internet editorials you will find much more opinion, no doubt about that. I do agree that some people go overboard and paint with a broad brush, but the same can be said for some defenders.

 

MT Predator

I agree with GAPD but I'm getting tired of seeing this shit on this forum whether the LEOs are guilty of a crime or not. Seems like anything anti-government or law enforcement related spawns on this great forum. Can we not spare some space on this forum and read this somewhere else instead?

 

So, don't discuss crime committed by public servants anymore? I understand that you may be tired of it, and you could always skip these threads. However, I think it's better to have an adult discussion about the issue. Am I wrong? There is no need to "spare space" if it is a topic that people are interested in, which this obviously is, and it's in the appropriate section.

 

poolingmyignorance

The officers are being charged criminaly. Which if accounts are accurate they are indeed criminals. So yea it's fucked up, but this seems like one case where things whent bad but it was recognized as bad. Although its hard to answer"who do you call when it's the police assulting you?"

 

They are being charged, which is better than some cases, but they are not being charged as if they were average citizens. There does exist a bit of a double standard. As far as "who do you call, no one will stop it once it has started. Just as the police often arrive after a crime is completed, that is also the way you have to address these incidents......after the fact.

 

kodaline

Wanting police to not exceed the boundaries of their authority is not cop bashing.

 

You are correct, but I do want to highlight how your statement can be interpreted. You make it sound as iff that is what all or most police do, abuse their authority. Now, it happens , but top what extent? I think it's best to stay on topic and discuss only this incident than to make a broader argument.

 

K.T.

Get used to no knock violence.

 

W. made damn sure it could continue...remember Clinton attacking U.S. citizens?

 

Remember the Patriot act?

 

It got renewed by our current president via text from France at the last minute. Only Rand Paul fought it. (I hate that racist prick, but he was right).

 

"Never trade your freedom for the illusion of safety" George Carlin.

 

In 1975, $3.50/hour bought a car every 5 years, a one earning family, etc. Wake the fuck up!

 

With all due respect, our post was simply an off-topic rant. That said, what makes Rand Paul a racist?

Jpanzer

GeorgiaPD, I know not all LEO's are bad apples. But I DO know that whenever these kinds of things happen it sends red flags up everywhere for me. If I go to another mans home and try to enter and get shot then it was a attempted home invasion and I got what I deserved. But cops have the judicial authority to do this (with a warrant)... and thats a BIG difference. With that power should come the resposibility to exercise it in a lawful and correct manner.

 

Well, nothing lawful in this case, so the cops had more in common with your first scenario. I agree with your sentiment, though.

Jpanzer

From what the story told the most serious charges brought against these troopers was second-degree assault and criminally negligent homicide. And thats a damn farce in my opinion, and another example of the courts giviing a nod and a wink to this behavior.

 

+1

 

Jpanzer

And MT Predator I'm sorry if it hits a raw nerve with you because your brother is a LEO, but these stories NEED to be publicized and NOT swept under the rug, because thats the only way these incidents can ever be brought under control. No matter how much you want to pretend it didn't happpen and it's bullshit it ain't gonna change the fact they gunned a man down in cold blood just because he pissed them off....

 

To be fair, I'm not sure that's why they shot him. I do think that they were pissed at his audacity and DID think they had justification to enter his home. I'm sure they were not very calm by the time they chose to bust through his door and that is what likely led to the bad decision. They are human and when the are confrontational they don't always make the best decisions, it's biological.

 

JamesLi

Everyone tells the truth and is innocent. Unless you are the cop. Then you are a lying, guilty pig who deserves to die, die, die.

 

Please show me someone that says anything simular to what you stated in this thread, nice mischaracterization.

 

BeefEater

What else do you expect from a forum populated by low income crazies out in the woods? Anything conspiracy, anti-Obama, or anti-cop gets eaten right up, no matter how little sense it makes.

 

Honestly, I'm surprised there aren't dozens of racist threads as well.

 

Nice generalization, bro.

Wanting police to not exceed the boundaries of their authority is not cop bashing.

 

No one will argue that. I agree 100%.

 

But the problem with these types of threads, is that they do nothing but turn into bickering, hitting the - sign next to people's posts, people getting angry, etc, etc, etc. I've yet to see one good thing come from one of these types of threads......and we've had plenty of them.

 

So, no controversial topic should ever be discussed? Who wants to hear the opinion of only the people the agree with? I think we have lost the urge to hear opposing view in this country and only want to silence them now. I agree that people some people get carried away, on both sides, but if you don't respond in the same manner then you win. Think about it, if all the "cop bashers" end up looking like like angry idiots then who cares what their opinion is?

 

Regardless, I do think the thread will be locked as "cop bashing" seems to be a sensitive subject here. Now I'm going to shut up because I typed a lot, lol.

Edited May 29, 2011 by bigj480

[22_Shooter 1,560]

Wanting police to not exceed the boundaries of their authority is not cop bashing.

 

No one will argue that. I agree 100%.

 

But the problem with these types of threads, is that they do nothing but turn into bickering, hitting the - sign next to people's posts, people getting angry, etc, etc, etc. I've yet to see one good thing come from one of these types of threads......and we've had plenty of them.

 

 

So, no slightly controversial topic should ever be discussed? Who wants to hear the opinion of only the people the agree with? I think we have lost the urge to hear opposing view in this country and only want to silence them now. I agree that people some people get carried away, on both sides, but if you don't respond in the same manner then you win. Think about it, if all the "cop bashers" end up looking like like angry idiots then who cares what their opinion is?

 

Regardless, I do think the thread will be locked as "cop bashing" seems to be a sensitive subject here. Now I'm going to shut up because I typed a lot, lol.

 

 

Show me where in my post that I said something should never be discussed, or that you should only only hear the opinion of those you agree with. You can't. Because I never said it. Don't put words in my mouth, please. My point was, these types of threads lead to nothing good. I'm not saying that means they shouldn't exist. Just giving my opinion. That alright with you, chief?

[GeorgiaPD 408]

 

 

From what the story told the most serious charges brought against these troopers was second-degree assault and criminally negligent homicide. And thats a damn farce in my opinion, and another example of the courts giviing a nod and a wink to this behavior.

 

 

 

JP,

 

Don't let the play on words fool you. In many states, murder is listed as murder (1st Degree, 2nd Degree, etc.), but in other states murder is listed as homicide. Criminally negligent homicide is the same thing to them as 2nd Degreee Murder is to us here in Georgia. It all means the same thing, but has a different impact in the way that it makes people feel. Some people/states have completely removed themselves from harsh words like murder and rape due to the whole touchy feely public relations thing and replaced them with words like homicide and sexual assault. Trust me, Criminally Negligent Homicide is a very serious charge to be facing and the same charge that a non-leo person would be facing in the same situation. Just thought that I would help clear that up a little. It is sometimes confusing for me as well.

[Jpanzer 1,265]

Thanks GeorgiaPD, I wasn't aware of that. Good info to know!

[bigj480 203]

Show me where in my post that I said something should never be discussed, or that you should only only hear the opinion of those you agree with. You can't. Because I never said it. Don't put words in my mouth, please. My point was, these types of threads lead to nothing good. I'm not saying that means they shouldn't exist. Just giving my opinion. That alright with you, chief?

 

Haha, yes, fine with me. Many do believe that threads mentioning bad deeds that happen to be done by law enforcement should be curtailed. I mistook your argument, sorry.

 

Thanks GeorgiaPD, I wasn't aware of that. Good info to know!

 

+1, thanks GPD

Edited May 29, 2011 by bigj480

[jimdigriz 580]

I was just thinking yesterday, if the police get called for WHATEVER reason, If you decide you dont want to talk to them your in trouble because they will not leave! It doesnt matter why they originally came, You can be the one who called but once their outside your house their NOT leaving until their satisfied.

 

Will Grigg over at lewrockwell.com has a recurring feature "Never, NEVER Call the Police" where he highlights stories that escalated from something relatively minor to disaster by the actions of police officers with piss-poor judgment and an inflated view of their own authoritah. At this point I won't call them unless I've just shot dead a home invader or something like that. I certainly won't call them on my neighbors for loud partying all night or shooting their guns too much in the yard (unless they are being unsafe). I don't want to get my neighbors tazed, arrested, or killed...

Edited May 29, 2011 by Jim Digriz

[zenman223 460]

[blackknight135 9]

In my area I have only those rights allowed by the county sheriff/state police. How do I know this? I was told in no uncertain terms by the sheriff himself. For those of you that think that the constitution is still in force, remember what W. said, the constitution is just a piece of paper. So go on thinking you have rights, you do; sit down, shut up and do what you are told to do.

[TacSat 90]

While this a very tragic incident and as so rightly put there are a few bad apples.

 

If I may relay my story that could have ended just as bad

 

10 plus years ago me and several friends were firing an ar 15, a shotgun an a M1a. Just alittle to late a night around 10pm the quite hour.

this was all done off a buddies porch. well about a half an hour after we finished and several beers at this point. two cruisers came barreling

up the drive way. needless to say we all were scared. all the weapons were out on the table in front of the big window and easily seen from outside.

After the officer waded through the shells to get to the door. He kindly asked to speak to the

owner. after he came back in it was a short talk with the officer they just wanted to know if we were done making so much noise. the officer was

glad to here the only reason we stopped is we ran out of ammo.

 

granted this was all pre 9/11. and terrorist hysteria. but it is good to know there are still cops out there that are cool headed.

Edited May 30, 2011 by TacSat

[D.C.MORRISON 494]

Everyone tells the truth and is innocent. Unless you are the cop. Then you are a lying, guilty pig who deserves to die, die, die.

 

yes, innocent unless proven otherwise by a court. unfortunately the police operate on a presumption of guilt. that is why they see nothing wrong with meting out punishment , even up to execution on the spot.

lying ? U.S. police have an incredibly bad track record is that regard . especially creative report writing.

deserve to die ? these are people in the public trust. monies are extracted from the public to buy all of their equipment. computers , buildings , vehicles , everything. and of coarse even their pay. because the position is one of great responsibility. they should be held to high standards of conduct. they should be held accountable to the oath they took. if they are accused of a capitol crime . should be given due process in a court. when convicted , imo die, die , die .