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I was going through my gun stuff today and got thinking about a local guy who went through a bad fire a little while back and lost everything he owned including guns and accessories that where in safes. I have two safes one for all my guns and one for almost all my ammo. Then I have a small closet about 4'x 8' with shelfs and a bunch of rubber maid plastic drawers with all my magazines and drums and accessories. I got thinking about if I had a fire how much money in stuff and my collection I would loose and if there was any better way to protect it. The local guy who had the fire, his safes acted like big ovens and everything plastic melted, all of his guns had melted metal on parts or all of it, handguards,ect.He lost all his ammo, he had a large coin collection in one of the safes and it melted into a puddle of silver. I looked into insurance for all the stuff I have but anything I found would only cover the guns and only up to a certain $$ amount. I thought about building a small seperate shed made out of block concrete or something to store everything in but not really the best route to take. Its taken me along time to get what I have and if I ever had to buy it all again out of pocket I would be screwed and it would most likely never happen.

 

I would like to hear if any of you have any ideas or have taken saftey measures to prevent this kind of stuff from happening or any input at all.

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There are only two real solutions.

The first involves laying out serious cashola for the highest rated fire/heat resistant safe(s) your $$$$$ can buy... But you will likely still lose anything polymer.

The second is a rider policy on your Home Owners Insurance policy to cover the true value of any losses, again your gonna spend some $$$.

 

If I was a rich bastard and building a house, I'd build a fire/heat resistant walk-in safe and install a sprinkler system over it for good measure.

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There are only two real solutions.

The first involves laying out serious cashola for the highest rated fire/heat resistant safe(s) your $$$$$ can buy... But you will likely still lose anything polymer.

The second is a rider policy on your Home Owners Insurance policy to cover the true value of any losses, again your gonna spend some $$$.

 

If I was a rich bastard and building a house, I'd build a fire/heat resistant walk-in safe and install a sprinkler system over it for good measure.

 

For the win, you can get fire sprinkler heads and install a line and a few heads over your safes.

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Comments from the two safe techs who hang out on thehighroad (and various other forums - look for a1abdj) suggest that virtually all "gun safes" fire protection is useless. You get corrosive combustion gasses (like HCL) into the safe before it gets really hot. The heat is what expands the seals of a "fire rated" safe. One safe tech talked about opening a "fire rated" gun safe a few day after a fire (the FD will make you wait until the debris is cool and structurally cleared) and finding that the guns looked like like they had been on the bottom of the ocean for a few years due to the very corrosive fire gasses.

 

I use "fire rated" because, to the best of my knowledge, no gun safe is actually UL rated for fire. The various safe manufactures (even good ones like AMSEC) essentially make up a test. That's because to pass the UL tests you need to keep the contents humid. People don't like rusty guns and that is what a UL fire safe will do.

 

They did suggest using a sprinkler directly over the safe. I'd also suggest that you ensure the doors are nearly air tight (the door should have to pushed slowly closed the last inch or so against the air cushion) and the the sprinkler guys use commercial style black iron pipe all the way to the main water connection. Residential style PEX/CPVC will get melted by the fire unless you are doing the entire house.

 

Safes in basements WILL get flooded by thousands of gallons of water that the FD will use to put out the fire.

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Fire resistant safes and sprinkler systems are a good precaution but as stated, nothing is fire proof. Document all your firearms with serials and photos to include accessories and store them elsewhere like a safe deposit box in case you need to make an insurance claim.

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My safe is supposed to float, so I decided not to bolt it down. I hope if the worst ever happens it will be floating there nice and dry inside. lol Probably not tho. I really like the idea of installing a sprinkler above.

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My insurance company will cover my collection to the insured value of the house. My insurance agent has an inventory and estimated replacement values on all firearms so the insurance company will be satisfied in the event of theft as well as fire loss. He is a good conservative friend so I know the list is private.

 

1911

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My old bank vault worked real well for the 8 alarm building fire we had. No guns were scorched or damaged in the fire.

BUT, make some arrangment for the water to drain. Water damage was worse than fire damage in this case.

A vault in the basement makes one hell of a moisture trap.

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I agree that a sprinkler is the best option, but I do think it will make the inside of a safe humid, especially a safe with a loose fit between the door and frame.

 

I use "fire rated" because, to the best of my knowledge, no gun safe is actually UL rated for fire. The various safe manufactures (even good ones like AMSEC) essentially make up a test. That's because to pass the UL tests you need to keep the contents humid. People don't like rusty guns and that is what a UL fire safe will do.

 

There is actually a cap on how humid the inside of a safe can get to pas the UL test, something like 80% which tends to happen during the cool-down portion of the test. I have yet to put my guns in this safe because I haven't brought it in from the garage yet. I do have some bare metal tools stored in it with no real signs of rust.

 

This was the advice given to me by a locksmith/safe dealer on another forum about moisture:

The safes with moisture problems tend to be the inexpensive imports. Although all fire rated safes will have a minimal moisture content, this particular safe's insulation should be relatively dry. You should always double check the moisture levels within a safe with a hygrometer to ensure your firearms are in a suitable environment.

 

This is a real fire rated safe, and will offer much better protection against fire than the majority of the gun safes on the market. From a security stand point, it should also offer similar if not better security than the majority of gun safes. You shouldn't drill a hole in this type of safe for a dry rod, but if moisture is a problem, you can use a free standing silica based device.

 

My old bank vault worked real well for the 8 alarm building fire we had. No guns were scorched or damaged in the fire.

BUT, make some arrangment for the water to drain. Water damage was worse than fire damage in this case.

A vault in the basement makes one hell of a moisture trap.

 

How did water get in, around the door? Standing water? How long was it until you could get into your safe? It would seem that getting the guns out quickly would be the best bet, no matter what safe they are in. Any safe is likely to be wet after a fire due to the water used by firefighters, is that what you think as well?

Edited by bigj480
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There are fire suppression systems that don't use water. You typically see dry systems in server rooms or other places with a lot of electronics. The systems are expensive and can be dangerous because they work by removing the oxygen in the room. I have an insurance policy on all my guns it, covers damage, theft, etc... it was fairly inexpensive policy to get.

 

Clearly the best option is to build a cement bunker in your backyard with nothing but you safe in it :rolleyes:

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