Jump to content

Recommended Posts

So I have begun my conversion. I got the entire trigger grouping out (already killed the two rivet heads holding that in), and am now on the removal of the bottom plate.

 

Unfortunately, the three rivets don't want to cooperate. I decided that it would be easier to kill them from the outside, so I used a dremel and cut off two of the rivet heads. I tried to punch them out and nothing happened. So, I drill deeper into the rivets, and try to punch. Nothing again. By now, I have cut off the original trigger guard as it was only a nuisance. Keep in mind I have the custom CSS trigger guard ready to replace it.

 

Does anyone have any tips to kill the annoying rivets?

Link to post
Share on other sites

I've always grinded the heads off from the outside and used a punch or something similar and a hammer to knock them through the inside of the receiver. Receiver isn't touched at all and everything looks clean when done.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Mostly I use a big ass SHARP cold chisel and a 3# hammer. Usually the rivet falls out during the process, a tap on a small punch is the most I have had to do to get one out after the head is chopped off. Grinding off the rivet head does nothing to decrease the grip of the rivet shoulder where it has been expanded. Chopping the head off with a big chisel and a sharp blow stretches the rivet shoulder and lets it fall free.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

See, this is why the chat rocks! :super: If I do say so myself, nothing like live feedback and assistance. Considering of course this has already been discussed on several occasions.

 

My preferred method is: once you have the rivet heads ground down, you can use a drill to get a nice little dimple for the punch to reside. So you can drill into the rivet so the center of the dimple sits inside the receiver a little bit, then get a good sturdy surface and pound. Usually the relief from making space inside the rivet head from the receiver allows you to pop the rivet out nicely.

Link to post
Share on other sites

...and the rivets came out! Next came the CSS trigger guard. Issue there. The screw holes in the trigger guard are not deep enough for the screws to snugly press against the receiver. Recommendations?

 

Then, just to see (using the Molot grip) I attempted to mount the grip to the trigger guard. The bolt provided was not long enough.

 

So, do I need to make a trip to home depot to pick up some screws and bolts?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, everything (I think) was installed, and though I thought I was done, I am not. I am having issues with the bolt/bolt carrier interacting with the trigger group. When I try to charge the gun, the bolt carrier gets stuck in the rear of the gun, even though I chose not to put the bolt hold open stuff back in. What could be the cause of this? My guess is that the hammer isn't locking back completely, but why?

 

Another problem is that no matter what, bolt or not, when the safety is on and the trigger is pulled, it goes the correct amount but does not return to position.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Pics here as I know they will be requested to fix the issue.

IMG_0070.jpg

IMG_0068.jpg

IMG_0067.jpg

IMG_0065.jpgIMG_0066.jpg

 

All help is appreciated.

 

I have to say though, it looks sweet.

IMG_0073.jpg

Edited by CPF
Link to post
Share on other sites

Might make the bolt carrier isn't riding up over the end of your retaining plate. And, why not use a proper pistol grip nut if your receiver already has the hole for it? It will provide a much more secure grip in the long run.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I got the screws and bolts to work fine, so now my only issue is the internal problem. However, upon inspection, the pin that holds the trigger group in was wiggling out as I cocked the hammer back and let it slowly go forward again. Upon inspecting that, the (whatever it is called) plate (the one that holds the pins and safety together and connected) was becoming loose and moving around. Anyone have any experience with the CSS custom plate?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Is it safe to say that you are mentally handicap if you stare at the gun for two hours trying to figure out a problem and realize that you installed the hammer backwards? :bag:

 

Safe to say, thank you, everyone, for the encouragement to do this conversion. I absolutely love my basically new rifle, and I couldn't have done it without you! Thank you Saiga-12.com!

Link to post
Share on other sites

I got the screws and bolts to work fine, so now my only issue is the internal problem. However, upon inspection, the pin that holds the trigger group in was wiggling out as I cocked the hammer back and let it slowly go forward again. Upon inspecting that, the (whatever it is called) plate (the one that holds the pins and safety together and connected) was becoming loose and moving around. Anyone have any experience with the CSS custom plate?

I would ditch the plate, and get three crooks for the same price. Two spares or extras for your next build. Not much error in the crook method, shouldn't have any give or wiggle room with them. :angel:

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

^Yeah, that's what I was thinking. I didn't think you could use a plate instead of a crook in the rifles until last night, which made me wonder if they had shipped me the wrong conversion kit. Oh well, I am so happy to be done. :D

Link to post
Share on other sites

Also for the rear bolt in the trigger guard I would remove the spacer and put a washer in its place. That's how my RAM trigger guard is.

 

I tried, but unfortunately, to get a correct height, I would have to have like 2 or 3 washers. The spacer works perfectly IMO.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Here is some advice from somebody that deals with rivets every single day (I do sheet metal work on helicopters). There are two sides to every rivet:

 

Manufactured head: This is the round head that comes from the factory. The one that you put the rivet gun and headset on. It should be nice and round.

 

Shop head: This is the side of the rivet that gets "bucked" with a bucking bar. This side of the rivet should have a flat head and looks like it has been smashed down.

 

It will be tempting to drill out the shop head of the rivets. DONT DO IT!!! Standard practice is to drill the manufactured head. You do not want to drill out the flat shop head. As the rivet gets bucked down, it creates heat that hardens the rivet. And you do not have as much room for error as far as drilling the exact center of the rivet. Step one. Select the right drill bit. If my memory serves me correctly, the rivets are 4's (4/32in). So grab a 30 or 1/8in drill bit. Start drilling the exact center of the manufactured head. If your drill bit walks, angle your drill and drill back to center. Then straighten your drill back up. You are only going to drill thru the head of the rivet. After you drill thru the head of the rivet, grab a punch, put it in the hole and break the head of the rivet off. The hole should be deep enough for the punch to catch when you lean the punch to the side it breaks the head off. Then you hammer the rest of the rivet out. It might take a couple good hits with a hammer but it will come out.

 

Common Mistakes:

Most of these are things that you dont want to do when removing rivets. Take what you want, I mean you are working on a $400 gun and not a multi million dollar aircraft so it doesnt have to be perfect.

 

Grinding the heads off: This sounds like a good idead but its really not. First when you grind the heads off, its really hard to see where you actually need to punch out the rivet. It also will lead you to scar the surface of the metal.

 

Chiseling the heads off: You dont want to do this b/c one, its a pain in the butt. Two it can damage the hole that the rivets are in or the surrounding metal. You can use a chisel to take the heads off AFTER you have drilled the heads. A nice little tap and the heads will come right off. This comes in handy if you do not have the right sized drill bit.

 

Drilling thru the shop head: One this side of the rivet is much harder. Also you have alot less room for error. Doing this usually leads to oblonging the holes.

 

Drilling all the way thru the rivet: Sounds like a great idea, but its not. If you have never done this before, you are probably gonna get off center and screw the hole up. Another thing, it usually leaves a small ring of metal from the rivet in the hole. So when you put another rivet in that hole, after a little time and vibration, it starts working loose.

 

Hope this helps.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

Here is some advice from somebody that deals with rivets every single day (I do sheet metal work on helicopters). There are two sides to every rivet:

 

Manufactured head: This is the round head that comes from the factory. The one that you put the rivet gun and headset on. It should be nice and round.

 

Shop head: This is the side of the rivet that gets "bucked" with a bucking bar. This side of the rivet should have a flat head and looks like it has been smashed down.

 

It will be tempting to drill out the shop head of the rivets. DONT DO IT!!! Standard practice is to drill the manufactured head. You do not want to drill out the flat shop head. As the rivet gets bucked down, it creates heat that hardens the rivet. And you do not have as much room for error as far as drilling the exact center of the rivet. Step one. Select the right drill bit. If my memory serves me correctly, the rivets are 4's (4/32in). So grab a 30 or 1/8in drill bit. Start drilling the exact center of the manufactured head. If your drill bit walks, angle your drill and drill back to center. Then straighten your drill back up. You are only going to drill thru the head of the rivet. After you drill thru the head of the rivet, grab a punch, put it in the hole and break the head of the rivet off. The hole should be deep enough for the punch to catch when you lean the punch to the side it breaks the head off. Then you hammer the rest of the rivet out. It might take a couple good hits with a hammer but it will come out.

 

Common Mistakes:

Most of these are things that you dont want to do when removing rivets. Take what you want, I mean you are working on a $400 gun and not a multi million dollar aircraft so it doesnt have to be perfect.

 

Grinding the heads off: This sounds like a good idead but its really not. First when you grind the heads off, its really hard to see where you actually need to punch out the rivet. It also will lead you to scar the surface of the metal.

 

Chiseling the heads off: You dont want to do this b/c one, its a pain in the butt. Two it can damage the hole that the rivets are in or the surrounding metal. You can use a chisel to take the heads off AFTER you have drilled the heads. A nice little tap and the heads will come right off. This comes in handy if you do not have the right sized drill bit.

 

Drilling thru the shop head: One this side of the rivet is much harder. Also you have alot less room for error. Doing this usually leads to oblonging the holes.

 

Drilling all the way thru the rivet: Sounds like a great idea, but its not. If you have never done this before, you are probably gonna get off center and screw the hole up. Another thing, it usually leaves a small ring of metal from the rivet in the hole. So when you put another rivet in that hole, after a little time and vibration, it starts working loose.

 

Hope this helps.

 

^^^This. I played with aircraft sheetmetal for a few years (commercial heavies) and this is sound advice. The only thing I did differently from normal with the Saiga is I took a small file and flattened the tops of the manufactured heads and then center-punched them to start the drill. When I was working with aluminum I could start the drill with no prep and walk it as described to stay on center, but the steel rivets are tougher and I included an extra step or two to deal with it. I also found I had to remove more material than usual before I could break off the heads; I bent one of my pin punches in the process. I don't have any problem with grinding the heads down on a part that's expendable (like the floor plate), but it's a last resort and not good practice for the reasons mentioned.

 

Also remember that this is steel you're working with. With a soft metal like aluminum you could rev up the rpm's on the drill, but on steel keep your drill speed down and you could even use some sort of cutting oil when drilling out the rivets. I had an old bottle of air tool oil in my box that worked just fine. This is also very important if you're changing out the gas piston or drilling and tapping a hole for the bullet guide.

 

The only other thing I'd offer up is expanding on why not to drill the shop head unless absolutely necessary. It's a bit harder than the manufactured head (as mentioned), but the main reason is sometimes rivets will "smear" when being installed, and what you think is the center of the hole may not actually be. Take your time, be sure you know what you're doing before you put tool to metal, and stop and check your progress from different angles frequently. There's no rush on a project like this, so if it takes you an hour or two to remove three rivets but you leave perfect holes and no damage to the surrounding metal, it was worth it. 032.gif

Edited by DanTheEldest
Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
  • Chatbox

    Load More
    You don't have permission to chat.
×
×
  • Create New...