Optics mount frustration

[luca_brasi 0]

I'm getting a little frustrated with my Saiga .223. I bought a sweet aimpoint reddot - $$$$ for it and figured that mounting it would be no problem. I bought a UTG 5th Gen Quick Detachable Double Rail AK Side Mount from amazon and installed it no problem. Then took it to the range and ran out of adjustment before I could get it zeroed. So I did some research and found out that this UTG mount sucks but I also found out that the problem might also be the gun (something about different thicknesses of metal, blah, blah). After more research I've found that people have had problems with just about every kind of side mount with the possible exception of the Molot - $$$. I also saw that the Molot is adjustable (which might help add more adjustment to the optic if the problem is the gun) but you have to re-drill the pin holes to adjust it. I also read that the Ultimak gas tube - $$ might work well plus allow for co-witnessing but you might overheat your expensive optics and you have to modify your hand guard so it will fit. I really don't want to have to modify the gun. I am close to OCD and if I cut the hand guard even slightly uneven I'll just have to throw the whole gun away. The another option is mounting it on the top of a UTG quad rail system - $ but I read that it is really designed for accessories more than optics plus you can have the same overheating problem with no co-witnessing.

 

So here's my question: How the hell can I mount my aimpoint on my saiga .223?

 

Here's a picture with the UTG. Any help would be appreciated.

Edited June 18, 2011 by luca_brasi

[GregM1 241]

i had a UTG for a while. it held zero well enough after I adjusted the clamp. I eventually traded up to the BP-02. A very solid mount and cheaper than the molot. The new RS AKSM looks good but is a bit high dollar too. K-var's KV-04s is another good option. The BP02 is still cheaper though. they have 3 versions on kalinka optics site. You can also find instructions on adjusting the clamp tension on the kalinka site.

 

**oh yeah, welcome to the forum and way to go on being a contributor before your first post.

Edited June 18, 2011 by GregM1

[Alexc.s. 25]

You got an Aimpoint but didn't convert your rifle? I see a 30 round mag so I know that your not in cali.

As for not wanting to modify the gun, why? It's easy to do and costs are fairly low to do so. As for the Ultimak, unless it's going to be doing full auto mag dumps you won't have real heat problems unless the optic you are using is made of butter.

Yes you have to mod the hand gard, if you screw it up you can buy a new one.

Here's a pic of mine, I did all the work myself. Most of it was easy to do. Give it a try and I'm sure you'll find the same.

 

Welcome to the forum.

[jimdigriz 580]

 

These were designed for the 30 mm Aimpoint sights. I think Midway, Brownell's, and Primary Arms sell them.

 

Good choice on the optic. Aimpoints are worth every penny.

Edited June 18, 2011 by Jim Digriz

[GregM1 241]

 

These were designed for the 30 mm Aimpoint sights. I think Midway, Brownell's, and Primary Arms sell them.

 

Good choice on the optic. Aimpoints are worth every penny.

 

 

thanks for the pic jim. thats the RS AKSM. Aim surplus has them also, but not sure whom will be cheaper.

[jimdigriz 580]

Aim surplus has them also, but not sure whom will be cheaper.

 

Oops, right. Not Midway, but AimSurplus. (Not sure how I got confused, as Aim is one of my favorite vendors).

[Deadeye 325]

I like the dph quick relece beryl style rail

[luca_brasi 0]

Thanks for the replies. I became a contributor when I joined but never had a reason to post until now. The RS Products AK 30MM Mount looks interesting but it's $139. Thats as much as the molot. Anyone have it, use it, like it? I would spend the money if it worked. I liked the BP02 and it's the right price but I read where people had trouble with those too.

 

I'm not up for cutting up my hand guard for the Ultimak but I was wonder is there an aftermarket hand guard that works as is with it?

 

As for the having an unconverted Saiga, I bought the adjustable skeleton stock and love it! Plus it counts as American made.

[thoricuncle 19]

Thanks for the replies. I became a contributor when I joined but never had a reason to post until now. The RS Products AK 30MM Mount looks interesting but it's $139. Thats as much as the molot. Anyone have it, use it, like it? I would spend the money if it worked. I liked the BP02 and it's the right price but I read where people had trouble with those too.

 

I'm not up for cutting up my hand guard for the Ultimak but I was wonder is there an aftermarket hand guard that works as is with it?

 

As for the having an unconverted Saiga, I bought the adjustable skeleton stock and love it! Plus it counts as American made.

 

 

I wondered where you got that stock.

 

However, I see the manufacturer is Izhmash. Not to start another 922 Hijack but are you sure it counts as American made?

 

 

 

 

[luca_brasi 0]

Thanks for the replies. I became a contributor when I joined but never had a reason to post until now. The RS Products AK 30MM Mount looks interesting but it's $139. Thats as much as the molot. Anyone have it, use it, like it? I would spend the money if it worked. I liked the BP02 and it's the right price but I read where people had trouble with those too.

 

I'm not up for cutting up my hand guard for the Ultimak but I was wonder is there an aftermarket hand guard that works as is with it?

 

As for the having an unconverted Saiga, I bought the adjustable skeleton stock and love it! Plus it counts as American made.

 

 

I wondered where you got that stock.

 

However, I see the manufacturer is Izhmash. Not to start another 922 Hijack but are you sure it counts as American made?

The paper work that came with mine said it counted as American made because it has "been re-engineered by Confederated Arms." That's what I'm going by. I love this stock. Very comfortable to shoot and you get the same effect as a pistol grip. I had to go adjustable because I have long arms and the regular skeleton stock was way too short.

 

I actually had a converted Saiga before and sold it because I didn't like the way the conversion work was finished (that OCD thing again). I like this configuration just as much.

[Alexc.s. 25]

Well if you want the Ultimak and a hand gard that just works with it no modifying needed they do make one in three lengths.

Google "Ultimak (ACR2-SS)" That model number is for the standard length model. The compact model is the same length as the gas tube rail, and the long one goes over the whole gas block. They are damn fine but cost a lot. Think the price is around $200 for any length. So if you want to have supper nice rails (or super nice any thing for that matter) it will cost you.

 

Picture is of standard length model.

[luca_brasi 0]

After much mental debate I'm going to try the BP-02 low profile. It looks to me like most people have good luck with them and for $50 it's worth a try. It's also versatile enough that I can change to a different optic if I want to someday which I can't do with the RS Products AK 30MM Mount. I'll let you know how it turns out and thanks again for the help.

[GregM1 241]

i think you will enjoy the bp-02; but if you dont, it will retain a resale price close to the original price.

[josey88 21]

i think you will enjoy the bp-02; but if you dont, it will retain a resale price close to the original price.

 

I have the K-Var K-04s side mount . It is made specifically for the Saiga rail mount, It would cost more than the Kalinka mount, but it fits perfect , and keeps zero 100% , Here is a pic of it :

Edited June 20, 2011 by josey88

[Deadeye 325]

The side rail isint strong enough for long range work in my opinion my bp-o2 would wigle side to side from the rivet flex

[josey88 21]

The side rail isint strong enough for long range work in my opinion my bp-o2 would wigle side to side from the rivet flex

 

Well, I don`t have that ... mine is rock solid .

[cbryan 7]

The side rail isint strong enough for long range work in my opinion my bp-o2 would wigle side to side from the rivet flex

 

Well, I don`t have that ... mine is rock solid .

 

 

I think that you should be fine for accuracy at any range that you set it up, remember it is a red dot so there is already some variance right there.

 

 

[luca_brasi 0]

The side rail isint strong enough for long range work in my opinion my bp-o2 would wigle side to side from the rivet flex

I've heard that from others also which is why I was hesitant initially but others say they have no movement and it's great. I don't know if this difference is that some units are better than others or just the difference in how people use them etc. So for $50 I'll try it myself and see what happens.

 

Edit: oh did you mean rivet flex on the gun or the mount? I heard others complain that the bp-02 wiggles because of the screws (not sure if they mean the design is flawed or the screws just come loose.) If the gun rivets flex then all sidemounts would have the same problem right?

Edited June 21, 2011 by luca_brasi

[cbryan 7]

there is a BP02 for sale in the WTS/WTT section for $50 shipped

[GregM1 241]

The side rail isint strong enough for long range work in my opinion my bp-o2 would wigle side to side from the rivet flex

I've heard that from others also which is why I was hesitant initially but others say they have no movement and it's great. I don't know if this difference is that some units are better than others or just the difference in how people use them etc. So for $50 I'll try it myself and see what happens.

 

Edit: oh did you mean rivet flex on the gun or the mount? I heard others complain that the bp-02 wiggles because of the screws (not sure if they mean the design is flawed or the screws just come loose.) If the gun rivets flex then all sidemounts would have the same problem right?

 

i have no movement whatsoever with my BP-02. it is rock solid and retains zero when removed and replace. i have the lever at the tightest position possible too.

 

here are the directions for adjusting the sidrail clamp for anyone that hasn't found them yet. http://www.kalinkaoptics.com/manual/KOAKClampAdjustment.pdf

[Deadeye 325]

on my saiga 308 the side rail on the gun would flex beacause of the reciver wall is thin and the rivets wernt tight enough. the bp-o2 would get super tight but I could still flex the scope side to side about 1/8 inch or more. That does not hapen with the dph rail. I think the price is worth it for somthing rock solid. but to each there own

 

http://dpharms.com/product_info.php?products_id=1000

[Dorky_D 8]

I really like the BP-02. Mine has worked great. That said, I have not shot past 50 yards yet, but it seems very stable. If you find you are unhappy with your BP-02 when you get hit, hit me up and if it is still in good condition, I could buy it from you. I am planning on getting annother one and putting a higher power scope on it for longer ranges.

[luca_brasi 0]

Well if you want the Ultimak and a hand gard that just works with it no modifying needed they do make one in three lengths.

Google "Ultimak (ACR2-SS)" That model number is for the standard length model. The compact model is the same length as the gas tube rail, and the long one goes over the whole gas block. They are damn fine but cost a lot. Think the price is around $200 for any length. So if you want to have supper nice rails (or super nice any thing for that matter) it will cost you.

 

Picture is of standard length model.

 

Well I know I'm indecisive but the idea of co-witnessing got to me. I'm going with the Ultimak gas tube forward mount and this hand guard. Thanks for the part number. I had a feeling I wouldn't be happy with less so why mess around. I'll post some pics when I get it.

[luca_brasi 0]

Here are pictures as promised. Ultimak is definitely the way to go! Co-witnessing is worth it and makes it supper easy to get optics sighted in. No wandering zero now either. I was a little worried about if having the optics so far forward would affect target accusation. I find it's actually easier now than before. The one con with this set up is the extra weight in the front of the gun but it's by far worth it. Plus it looks bad a**. Thanks again for all the suggestions. I'm sure the other options would have worked too but I'm very happy with this one.

[Alexc.s. 25]

Looking good, you should still get it converted, but I guess some people just don't want to.

Keep up the good work.

[luca_brasi 0]

Looking good, you should still get it converted, but I guess some people just don't want to.

Keep up the good work.

Yeah, I might get it converted someday just for the better trigger. I've got to save my money. $500 for the optics and $300 for the mount and rails and I'm tapped out for a while. If I got it converted I would have a professional do it. I know people here are big on DIY but if it wasn't perfect I wouldn't be happy. I see Arizona armory does nice work and charges about $230 plus extras. But for now I'm digging the adjustable skeleton stock.

[volkov 318]

Looking good, you should still get it converted, but I guess some people just don't want to.

Keep up the good work.

Yeah, I might get it converted someday just for the better trigger. I've got to save my money. $500 for the optics and $300 for the mount and rails and I'm tapped out for a while. If I got it converted I would have a professional do it. I know people here are big on DIY but if it wasn't perfect I wouldn't be happy. I see Arizona armory does nice work and charges about $230 plus extras. But for now I'm digging the adjustable skeleton stock.

 

this is one DIY that you can't really mess up. Long as you have the right parts everything sits where it should regardless of who put it in there. The real advantages to the professional's is they can weld up the holes and properly repaint. Just something for you to consider.

[luca_brasi 0]

I've had some questions about my adjustable skeleton stock. I just noticed that it has "made in the USA by Confederated Arms patents pending" stamped right on the bottom. Confederated Arms says that it does count towards 922r.

[Alexc.s. 25]

I've had some questions about my adjustable skeleton stock. I just noticed that it has "made in the USA by Confederated Arms patents pending" stamped right on the bottom. Confederated Arms says that it does count towards 922r.

 

Can you put that in the form of a question/questions?

[psl sniper 963]

i think you will enjoy the bp-02; but if you dont, it will retain a resale price close to the original price.

 

I have the K-Var K-04s side mount . It is made specifically for the Saiga rail mount, It would cost more than the Kalinka mount, but it fits perfect , and keeps zero 100% , Here is a pic of it :

what kind of scope is that?