Colt M4 full auto test ruptures barrel at 535 rounds but how much long

[my762buzz 141]

Colt M4 full auto test ruptures barrel at 535 rounds less than 2 minutes in nearly continuous fire but how much longer would an AK last?

 

I AM really curious about this and yeah the RPK system comes to mind when I stop to consider this.

 

Any one have a similar test source to compare?

 

Oh and yeah there is the actual video on the link

http://atwar.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/01/12/m4-and-m4a1-guns/

Edited June 19, 2011 by my762buzz

[KC913 324]

Old video, but:

[jw_shultz 83]

Here is a very cool video of the E4 variant M60 machine gun that shows it fire 850 rounds in one long burst. Awesome!

 

www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIiAbTdVcOA

 

I carried an M60 in basic training & they are truly awesome machines. I used to freak out the drill seargents by firing in from the shoulder in the standing position with 300 rounds of ammo hanging out & draped over my shoulder. The belt hung almost all the way to the ground behind my back. Everybody should get a chance to shoot an M60. It is a religious experience.

 

 

 

[jw_shultz 83]

Old video, but:

 

Holy shit. Is that the wooden foregrip burning?

Too hot indeed!

Good stuff.

[KC913 324]

Old video, but:

 

Holy shit. Is that the wooden foregrip burning?

Too hot indeed!

Good stuff.

 

Yep. So hot the handguards are burning.

[patriot 7,197]

1917 Browning machine gun (In the first test, the weapon fired 20,000 rounds without incident. The reliability was exceptional, so Browning fired another 20,000 rounds through the weapon without any parts failing. The Ordnance Board was impressed but was unconvinced that the same level of performance could be achieved in a production model. Consequently, Browning used a second gun that not only duplicated the original trial, but it also fired continuously for 48 minutes and 12 seconds (over 21,000 rounds)

 

(Chinn (1951), "Part III, Full Automatic Machine Gun Development, Chapter 3, Browning Automatic Machine Guns", The Machine Gun, I, Bureau of Ordinance, Department of the Navy, pp. 173–181, page 172.)

 

I think that's a record.

 

 

I used to have one. Truly an awesome weapon. VERY expensive to play with. I sold it to buy a 2010 Camaro SS (My avatar)

Edited June 19, 2011 by patriot

[my762buzz 141]

1917 Browning machine gun (In the first test, the weapon fired 20,000 rounds without incident.

 

Fantastic design but because it is water cooled I consider it in a different league of combat weapon. The water chamber physically limits the top critical heat build up point to a fixed quantity.

 

However, with an air cooled shoulder fired rifle like a typical AK, M14, M16, etc

the steel generally has no top end limiting factor to prevent continuous heat build up.

 

Chrome lining is suppose to actually reduce friction which slows the heat build up to some degree and prevents bore erosion for longer barrel life.

Edited June 19, 2011 by my762buzz

[t3mac21 1]

 

Here's an M4 going until the gas tube melts.

 

 

I'd say both videos are a good example of how good the rifle is. You're never going to encounter a situation in combat where you're firing 500+ plus rounds on fully automatic to begin with, atleast not with an M4/16 style rifle, and M4's aren't fully automatic anyway.

 

 

You can break anything if you try to.

Edited June 20, 2011 by t3mac21

[t3mac21 1]

oh, and the handguard lights up too. Rifle still works, just as a bolt-action after the gas tube melts.

[bigj480 203]

Old video, but:

 

I wonder how many rounds really went through that thing. It was on fire when the vid started so they got a head start.

[kevin.rose0@gmail.com 62]

I'd say both videos are a good example of how good the rifle is. You're never going to encounter a situation in combat where you're firing 500+ plus rounds on fully automatic to begin with, atleast not with an M4/16 style rifle, and M4's aren't fully automatic anyway.

M4a1s for SOCOM are fully automatic, and they are apparently getting rid of the 3 shot burst FC group in all the M4s. SOCOM uses their M4s somewhat like light machineguns, which is why they have been funding shot counter R&D for the last decade.

 

But yeah, going through over 10 magazines on auto as fast as you can seems like a really rare and bizarre situation, and you simply cannot design your standard infantry weapon for things that might happen twice ever, as there are always costs. Sometime the cost is more money, mostly it's extra weight.

[t3mac21 1]

True, I'm just saying, this is purely a labratory test, or one of those guys who feels the need to abuse his rifle to "test" it so of test. The standard soldier is carrying about 180 rounds of 5.56 plus the magazine in the rifle. Hard to imagine a situation that would require you to dump all your mags, and three of your friends mags too in literally seconds.

 

The plan is to replace all M16 style rifles with the M4A1 style by like 2012 or something IIRC. After that, there will still be open trials for a new rifle.

[blackknight135 9]

Ask some of the Vietnam Vets about the M-16 and barrel ruptures. The appearance here seems to show that they don't remember back that far.

[SOPMOD 254]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xe2jUEaTBVA

 

I have personally seen rental AKs at several machinegun shoots put more rounds downrange than that PER HOUR, all weekend, over and over again.

 

 

NAVSEA says that a M4/CQBR barrel is good for 3000rds of full auto use until gas port erosion causes either too much blowby and 10,000rds before the nose of a round pushes up into the eroded area in the narrow part of the barrel right behind the front sight base causing a catastrophic failure.

 

Here is a powerpoint presentation about trying to fix some of these problems in Naval M4A1s.

www.dtic.mil/ndia/2003smallarms/john.ppt

 

Remember that some of the world's best SAWs and GPMGs are basically open-bolt, upsidedown AKs with beltfeed mechs where the mag well would have been.

 

 

By the way if your AK is Russian or Bulgarian it already has a cold hammer forged barrel made on a mandrel and has vastly superior wear characteristics to a button rifled barrel like the M4/M16 uses.A Cold Hammer Forged barrel for an M4 variant is a fairly recent addition and they cost upwards of $350 just for the barrel.

Edited July 1, 2011 by SOPMOD

[ARgal 3]

since full auto is a stupid thing for a mag fed weapon these days, and has been for 40 years, I see no point in caring whether or not a rifle can stand up to it.

[kevin.rose0@gmail.com 62]

That is a reasonable position, however the USMC is replacing their SAWs with magazine fed rifles.

[theorangeplanet 968]

Just in the squads, though. They'll still be using plenty of SAWs, ironically, in other roles besides being the standard squad automatic weapon.

[MT Predator 2,294]

since full auto is a stupid thing for a mag fed weapon these days, and has been for 40 years, I see no point in caring whether or not a rifle can stand up to it.

 

Depends on how you employ it. That happy switch comes in handy if you need to throw out suppressive fire to cover a movement. Before the SAW, magazine fed full auto rifles were traditionally used for the Automatic Rifleman. Hint...Browning Automatic Rifle. It's not far fetched or stupid.

[BpS12 512]

Full auto has it's uses, esp in a HOT combat situation. Try squeezing your trigger 535 times as fast as you can. Or even just 30-100 times(depending on your mag/drum). I prefer the 2-3 round burst feature myself, as without the heavy barrel of a larger weapon(M16 vs. M60), it seems more difficult to stay on target or even at elevation. One of the coolest things I ever saw was a 40mm Autogun firing shot shell into a tree line. Talk about SUPPRESIVE fire

 

Everything has its place and time.

[BuffetDestroyer 969]

Both the AK and the AR have their merits and neither were designed to be continuous suppressive fire weapons!

 

[MT Predator 2,294]

Both the AK and the AR have their merits and neither were designed to be continuous suppressive fire weapons!

 

Suppressive fire isn't continuous, it's done in bursts whether coming from an Automatic Rifle or Machinegun. A MG can't run continous either contrary to popular belief.

[uzitiger 193]

In combat weapons are pushed past their design limits. In the Korean War soldiers and marines fired their weapons until they melted their barrels when they had hordes of ChiComs coming at them and were coming at them endlessly. I have a friend who fought in the 1967 and 1973 wars and he said that his unit fired their machine guns until the barrel was glowing red and he could see the projectile going down the hot barrels.

[patriot 7,197]

Suppressive fire isn't continuous, it's done in bursts whether coming from an Automatic Rifle or Machinegun. A MG can't run continous either contrary to popular belief.

 

Clipped from the wiki on JMB's 1917 machine gun:

 

 

 

 

 

Browning arranged a test at the Springfield Armory in May, 1917.[5] In the first test, the weapon fired 20,000 rounds without incident. The reliability was exceptional, so Browning fired another 20,000 rounds through the weapon without any parts failing. The Ordnance Board was impressed but was unconvinced that the same level of performance could be achieved in a production model. Consequently, Browning used a second gun that not only duplicated the original trial, but it also fired continuously for 48 minutes and 12 seconds (over 21,000 rounds).[6]

 

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