Help deciding on my Saiga rifle?

[sickness 89]

Hi guys,

 

So I've had an S12 for some time now, and I love it. I was never really sold on AKs or ARs in the past.. real men shoot .308, and my rifle is a FAL. But when I went shopping for my combat shotty .. well, the S12 is in a class by itself.

 

But now that I've been using my S12 for awhile, I've really come to appreciate the AK platform much more.

 

Cost of ammo, capacity and weight are making me want to pick up something in an intermediate cartridge, and I've already decided that I want some sort of Saiga rifle.

 

But which one? I'm really having a hard time deciding. If I need more power then I'll go all the way and grab my FAL .. so I've ruled out the 7.62 because of that. I want the capacity gain/weight savings of the .223 or 5.45.

 

Some concerns that I have:

 

I'd like to have a ready supply of lead core, copper jacketed FMJ. There are a few indoor ranges I like to shoot at that don't allow magnetic ammo (fearing a steel core). I'd like a supply of mil-spec hi-cap magazines. Pre-ban availability is a big plus - I have friends and family in non-free states, and being able to bring stuff there to shoot with them would be a very nice plus, but not strictly a requirement.

 

This seems to favor the 5.45? I can use Hornady VMAX stuff at the indoor ranges, and 45rd RPK mags. Doesn't seem like pre-ban hi-cap .223 AK/Galil mags are readily available.

 

But I saw a comment on Youtube at some point that lead me to believe that a 5.45 mag will hold .223 rounds? Is that true? Can someone confirm that a Saiga .223 will lockup OK with a 5.45 mag and feed .223 ammo reliably? If this is true, is it true for genuine AK74 and RPK mags, or just the commercial Saiga aftermarket stuff?

 

If its true, then maybe I'll go with .223 just to have the convenience of being able to pick up a brick of it locally in a pinch.. but that doesn't ultimately matter to me, since I generally buy my ammo in bulk anyhow..

Edited July 1, 2011 by sickness

[TX-Zen 287]

My understanding is that a 5.45 mag will hold about 20-22 rounds of 223 but I can't remember if the follower is changed or not (I think not for some reason) and IIRC they feed just fine. I also assume you'd still need a bullet guide in the 223 Saiga like you would for a 223 mag.

 

If it were me I'd just go with the SGL31 in 5.45 and save the time or effort of converting a sporter. I say that because I've already converted a bunch of them and there isn't anything in it for me now, plus the SGL is about as close to an AK74M that you can get all things considered. (resale value will be higher than a converted sporter too) The performance of the 74 brake is worth whatever time it would take to add to a sporter or whatever the cost difference is on the SGL31...the brake works very well and it's one of the big reasons I am so fond of the AK74. Not getting the brake on a 74 is really missing out on a big part of the engineering of the rifle IMO

 

As for 223 I've never been a big fan on AK's despite some of the advantages of the common caliber and readily available ammo. I stock up on ammo too so commercial 5.45 availability isn't a concern for me and neither is SHTF. For me I guess it comes down to a bit of voodoo, I've never been quite convinced that 223 is the right choice for an AK but some of that comes from the AKSU side of the house where 223 isn't so hot out of an 8" barrel. Not saying it's bad choice in a full size AK but I'd rather eliminate any variables and stick with the fielded caliber that the military uses.

 

 

 

Z

[WhiteRabbit 4]

For indoor ranges, Google says Hornady 5.45x39 V-Max is $17 plus S&H while Wallyworld has 55gr .223 for $40 per 100-round pack - let's call that a draw. For cheap plinking and stockpiling, with 5.45x39 your cheap ammo is corrosive. With .223, your "cheap" ammo isn't very cheap.

 

5.45x39 magazine followers can be replaced so they take .223 but it sacrifices some reliability and capacity and probably isn't worth it. Get a magazine that was meant for the caliber.

 

.223 in an AK is weirder and slightly more accurate. You'll get some looks at the range.

[rifleshooter474 2]

Like someone already posted buy the SGL-31 in 5.45x39 this is what I wanted in a another AK, I have two SGL-21 in 7.62x39 and they all work great.

Need good quality Ammo. in 5.45x39 http://www.sgammo.com/product/silver-bear/750rds-545x39-fmj-60-grain-silver-bear-non-corrosive-ammo

[sickness 89]

Like someone already posted buy the SGL-31 in 5.45x39 this is what I wanted in a another AK, I have two SGL-21 in 7.62x39 and they all work great.

Need good quality Ammo. in 5.45x39 http://www.sgammo.co...-corrosive-ammo

 

Thanks guys. I decided that .223 wasn't worth the potential headache for now and ordered a factory Saiga in 5.45. I decided that my .223 rifle will be a either an AUG, or a SCAR. Makes more sense this way.

 

I'm sure the SGL's are great guns, but the thing about me is that I like to tinker.. and the IZ240 lets me get in cheap ($375) and add in more cash as I desire. $500 - $600 is about my "threshold" point. Below that is "cheap" and I'm OK to just jump on it. Above that is "pricey" and I'm more apt to just save up $1200 or so and call Red Jacket. Or go all the way to $2000 and get the Steyer or SCAR.

 

The only thing I'm going to do to it up front is to install a bullet guide until I figure out how I want to set it up.. I have to get it in hand and figure out how it balances with full mags first before I'll get any real ideas. But the concept now is wood with an ACE folder.

 

Thanks for that Silver Bear ammo link.. nice price. Anyone happen to know if that is copper over lead FMJ? Or is i some magnetic bi-metal stuff? Just wondering if I could shoot that at my favorite indoor range (100yd indoor range w/ runners, and there is an awesome burger joint not to far away. GREAT way to spend a rainy day). I know the Hornady would be OK there.

[rifleshooter474 2]

Like someone already posted buy the SGL-31 in 5.45x39 this is what I wanted in a another AK, I have two SGL-21 in 7.62x39 and they all work great.

Need good quality Ammo. in 5.45x39 http://www.sgammo.co...-corrosive-ammo

 

Thanks guys. I decided that .223 wasn't worth the potential headache for now and ordered a factory Saiga in 5.45. I decided that my .223 rifle will be a either an AUG, or a SCAR. Makes more sense this way.

 

I'm sure the SGL's are great guns, but the thing about me is that I like to tinker.. and the IZ240 lets me get in cheap ($375) and add in more cash as I desire. $500 - $600 is about my "threshold" point. Below that is "cheap" and I'm OK to just jump on it. Above that is "pricey" and I'm more apt to just save up $1200 or so and call Red Jacket. Or go all the way to $2000 and get the Steyer or SCAR.

 

The only thing I'm going to do to it up front is to install a bullet guide until I figure out how I want to set it up.. I have to get it in hand and figure out how it balances with full mags first before I'll get any real ideas. But the concept now is wood with an ACE folder.

 

Thanks for that Silver Bear ammo link.. nice price. Anyone happen to know if that is copper over lead FMJ? Or is i some magnetic bi-metal stuff? Just wondering if I could shoot that at my favorite indoor range (100yd indoor range w/ runners, and there is an awesome burger joint not to far away. GREAT way to spend a rainy day). I know the Hornady would be OK there.

 

My Silver Bear 5.45x39 is steel core.

Edited July 5, 2011 by rifleshooter474

[sickness 89]

 

My Silver Bear 5.45x39 is steel core.

 

Bummer. Thanks for the confirmation though.. thats sorta what I expected. Time to order a bunch of Hornady 5.45!