Herbstikal 0 Posted July 14, 2011 Report Share Posted July 14, 2011 So I've made up my mind that I will be joining the 5.45 community. I am just debating between the Saiga vs. Sgl route. I have converted a S308 and S12, so I'm not really worried about the conversion work on the back end(FCG, PG, stock etc.) However, I do think adding the muzzle brake is a little outside my skill range, and I don't want to mess up the barrel or anything. My question is whether or not a muzzle brake is really worth it on 5.45? The way I see it I can buy the Saiga and convert the whole back end for $550-600, whereas if I get the sgl it will cost me over $800 and I'll still probably end up replacing certain parts to my liking for even more $. To me it would almost seem like the muzzle brake would just be one more thing to clean and increase the OAL of the rifle. Has anyone shot a 5.45 with and without the muzzle brake that can weigh in on the difference? I know that it will have an effect, but is it that drastic that it's worth the extra time/money? I am only concerned with the functionality of this rifle, not in the aesthetics or resale value. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
M14-PIG 2 Posted July 14, 2011 Report Share Posted July 14, 2011 I've only shot my Saiga 5.45 without a muzzle brake. I was really surprised at how light the recoil is. Maybe putting the brake on will reduce the felt recoil even more. But for me, the cost of threading the barrel and buying a new gas tube plus a retainer, and making a notch in the barrel just isn't worth it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jimdigriz 580 Posted July 14, 2011 Report Share Posted July 14, 2011 (edited) So I've made up my mind that I will be joining the 5.45 community. I am just debating between the Saiga vs. Sgl route. I have converted a S308 and S12, so I'm not really worried about the conversion work on the back end(FCG, PG, stock etc.) However, I do think adding the muzzle brake is a little outside my skill range, and I don't want to mess up the barrel or anything. My question is whether or not a muzzle brake is really worth it on 5.45? The way I see it I can buy the Saiga and convert the whole back end for $550-600, whereas if I get the sgl it will cost me over $800 and I'll still probably end up replacing certain parts to my liking for even more $. To me it would almost seem like the muzzle brake would just be one more thing to clean and increase the OAL of the rifle. Has anyone shot a 5.45 with and without the muzzle brake that can weigh in on the difference? I know that it will have an effect, but is it that drastic that it's worth the extra time/money? I am only concerned with the functionality of this rifle, not in the aesthetics or resale value. Using the 5.45 without a muzzle device will result in dazzling fireballs at night. A flash hider can do away with all or most traces of that, and many muzzle brakes will also at least diffuse the fireball somewhat or redirect it out of your direct line of sight. As far as the OAL, there are newer, shorter muzzle devices that add only about an inch. Small price to pay for the big benefits. My recommendation: Buy the SGL and spare yourself the work, annoyance, and extra time. Edited July 14, 2011 by Jim Digriz Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jimdigriz 580 Posted July 14, 2011 Report Share Posted July 14, 2011 I've only shot my Saiga 5.45 without a muzzle brake. I was really surprised at how light the recoil is. Maybe putting the brake on will reduce the felt recoil even more. But for me, the cost of threading the barrel and buying a new gas tube plus a retainer, and making a notch in the barrel just isn't worth it. The cost of threading may be an issue for some, but the gas tube and retainer are not really relevant to the discussion about threading the barrel and adding a muzzle device. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tStreets 1 Posted July 14, 2011 Report Share Posted July 14, 2011 I've only shot my Saiga 5.45 without a muzzle brake. I was really surprised at how light the recoil is. Maybe putting the brake on will reduce the felt recoil even more. But for me, the cost of threading the barrel and buying a new gas tube plus a retainer, and making a notch in the barrel just isn't worth it. The cost of threading may be an issue for some, but the gas tube and retainer are not really relevant to the discussion about threading the barrel and adding a muzzle device. You want a 74 muzzle brake... trust me. There is a very noticeable difference when using one. The most noticeable is that the rifle does not flip up after shots without a brake, but rather is deflected down and to the left for a much better likely hood of a follow up shot (easier targeting in general). Plus the 5.45 looks that much more bad ass and identifiable with one. I really do not notice that much difference in felt recoil to tell you the truth. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TX-Zen 287 Posted July 14, 2011 Report Share Posted July 14, 2011 If all you do is take it to the range and shoot at 50 yards I wouldn't bother. It's probably not worth the time or effort at short static distances like that. OTOH there's a reason why millions and millions of AK74 and AK100 series rifle's use the 74 brake...despite the fireworks at night it is extremely effective at reducing muzzle climb, especially on full auto. The Russians I know who have used the AK74 in combat have nothing but praise for it as well, particularly for long range FA shooting. My own experience in training and on the range is why I myself am a big fan of the brake because when you get into moving situations, longer ranges and/or higher rates of fire it really shines. Again it comes down to how you intend to use it, or what you might have to use it for. Z Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jimdigriz 580 Posted July 14, 2011 Report Share Posted July 14, 2011 (edited) Here are two new muzzle devices for the 24mm front sight block (which SGLs come with): (Both from Manticore Arms and U.S.-made). I'm currently running the flash hider (left) on my SGL 31, but intend to try the muzzle brake (right) when it comes out in a few weeks. Pretty inexpensive in both cases (~$45), and shorter and lighter than other 24mm FSB devices. I can report that the flash hider is as effective as the longer Bulgarian-style; hopefully the brake will be at least as good as the AK 74 brake. Edited July 14, 2011 by Jim Digriz Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dmac27 17 Posted July 14, 2011 Report Share Posted July 14, 2011 I changed the FSB on mine and it is actually fairly easy. I used a Dremel to make cuts down both sides (as described in Classy Kalashnikov's thread) and then a hammer to finish the job. I also changed the gas block so I could put a retainer on. It does make a difference but the 5.45 isn't a heavy recoiling round anyhow. It does definitely make faster follow up shots possible as you are not climbing off the target much. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Herbstikal 0 Posted July 14, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 14, 2011 Thanks so much for all your input guys, this is exactly the type of feedback I was hoping for. Just put in the order for the Saiga, and I'll let you know how it goes! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
amd6547 2 Posted July 14, 2011 Report Share Posted July 14, 2011 (edited) I have shot my Saiga 5.45 without a break, and of course, recoil is negligeable. Just changed out the FSB and put on a Bulgarian zigzag break, and will be shooting tomorrow...I will give my impressions then. One thing I have read from soviet vets...The 74 break redirects the sound and can make it more difficult for an adversary to locate the source of a shot. Edited July 14, 2011 by amd6547 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
amd6547 2 Posted July 15, 2011 Report Share Posted July 15, 2011 Well, I shot my 5.45 with the 74 zigzag muzzle break today. Definately a different sound signature at the shooter end...seemed less to me. As for the sound to side, I couldnt say...but since the guy next to me was shooting a 16" barrel AR in 50 Beowolf, I dont mind if it was annoying...that 50 Beowolf was LOUD. I didnt notice much difference in recoil, till I did some fast double taps...definately easier to keep the front sight on target. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mak 3 Posted July 18, 2011 Report Share Posted July 18, 2011 I added a threaded FSB to my Bulgarian SLR105 and threaded ever 7.62x39 rifle I have ever owned but never bothered on my Saiga conversions Quote Link to post Share on other sites
M14-PIG 2 Posted July 18, 2011 Report Share Posted July 18, 2011 I've only shot my Saiga 5.45 without a muzzle brake. I was really surprised at how light the recoil is. Maybe putting the brake on will reduce the felt recoil even more. But for me, the cost of threading the barrel and buying a new gas tube plus a retainer, and making a notch in the barrel just isn't worth it. The cost of threading may be an issue for some, but the gas tube and retainer are not really relevant to the discussion about threading the barrel and adding a muzzle device. You're right. I got my wires crossed. I was thinking about adding original handguards. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tStreets 1 Posted July 18, 2011 Report Share Posted July 18, 2011 Well, I shot my 5.45 with the 74 zigzag muzzle break today. Definately a different sound signature at the shooter end...seemed less to me. As for the sound to side, I couldnt say...but since the guy next to me was shooting a 16" barrel AR in 50 Beowolf, I dont mind if it was annoying...that 50 Beowolf was LOUD. I didnt notice much difference in recoil, till I did some fast double taps...definately easier to keep the front sight on target. You should make friends with that dude... he's probably really rich with a setup like that... or really poor! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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