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I'm not a glock fan, personally. They don't fit my hand (well, my wrist/grip angle). Instead, I have a CZ75 Compact. Get a couple of the full-size mags and now you've got 18 rounds for the reload and 14 in the gun. If you ever need that much ammo, you've seriously screwed up!

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Glock. Check this out.

Glock 17. Fits all your parameters and has 33 round mags available.

A knife requires you to be within arms reach, though. (Unless you're handy with throwing knives) A knife being best tool when within arms reach from your target is debatable. Personally, I'd take a

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While my Beretta PX4 Storm compact is fairly new to me it fits my hand very well and it's very comfortable for me to shoot and the ammo is still fairly cheap and plentiful. I can put 18+1 in it with the 15 round mags and the 3 round extender for a flush grip fit also. I have a couple .357 Colt trooper revolvers also but they are slightly hard to conceal and alot heavier to carry around all the time. I have found I also shoot the Beretta very well.

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I vote for Glock but A judge would be a great backup, the variety of ammo would help in different scenarios.

Funny, I've been toying with the judge as my back up/point shooting weapon the last few weeks.

 

A handgun simply isn't a SHTF weapon. Yeah, if you find yourself in SHTF situation you need a pistol, but it is for last ditch personal protection; that's really all a pistol is good for in any but the most expert hands.

I've heard it all now.......

 

SOPMOD-I'm not even going to get in to your statement about the reliablity of the Glock 20, in partial because I have one in gen 1,2 and 3 and they've had ZERO reliablity issues. Glock is a quality company that produces quality handguns not some fly by night operation.

 

 

 

While I agree that the Glock in 9mm is an excellent choice I like the 10mm as an all around gun that I can use for hunting also.

 

I run a Glock 20 with an RMR done by this company http://www.tsdcombatsystems.com/ (who are also business members here) and use Arredondo magazine extensions to bring my capacity up to 20rds. I have run the long stick mags but don't like how easily they catch on things and prohibit me from getting the gun low when shooting laying down. I use a Glock light and don't run a laser (I find them gimmicky unless there being used with NV). I do have the drop in barrels in .357 SIG, .40S&W and 9x25 Dillon. They work just fine out of the 10mm mags and I've never had a feed issue.

 

The RMR really is the secret to taking your pistol skills to a whole new level. 100y is a breeze and 200y is pretty simple depending on the caliber (bullet drop) that your using. If I could have a suppressor that would be about the only other thing I would add.

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SOPMOD-I'm not even going to get in to your statement about the reliablity of the Glock 20,

 

Sorry I didn't clarify that,I am a huge admirer of the Glock 20.I said the G20 was "over-engineered" and purpose built to use the hottest ammo as it's standard loading. If 10mm was commonly available and had the level of accessory and mag options the 9mm did I would already own one as my backpacking rig for hogs and black bears but not for my primary SHTF weapon which might have to last me the rest of my life if I am separated from home,guns,resupply by some cataclysm or civil war type of scenario.

 

Graphic Video(you have been warned)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSq96T-UrJ0

Edited by SOPMOD
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nice kill and excellent weapon, for me shtf is my ak and a 9mm as back up, I would use 9mm because it is widely available, cheaper to stockpile on a budget and probably more valuable in a barter situation, It has plenty of stopping power or penetration with the right load. It is just a good all around caliber. For a pistol whatever it is pick one and stick with it and learn how to use it, it does not matter if it is a 22 if you can shoot straight into someones eyeball from 15 yards on the draw and cant hit shit with a 45 then shoot the 22. Shot placement takes stopping power and mag capacity any day of the week.

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I'd go with a Glock 20. I've owned a few different Glocks and the 20 is by far my favorite. 10mm auto is an extremely effective caliber and the 20 uses 15 rnd mags.

 

As others have mentioned, most Glocks are very easy to convert to another caliber, just drop in a new barrel. G-20's are the same way. In addition to 10mm auto; with the appropriate conversion barrels, they can fire .40 S&W or .357 Sig, the 10mm mags will feed all 3 calibers.

"As others have mentioned, most Glocks are very easy to convert to another caliber, just drop in a new barrel. G-20's are the same way. In addition to 10mm auto; with the appropriate conversion barrels, they can fire .40 S&W or .357 Sig, the 10mm mags will feed all 3 calibers."

Can't forget the 9x25 Dillon and .50 GI either. Not sure about .45 ACP, but would not be surprised if you can get a .22LR conversion for it too. Amazingly versatile. A 6" 9x25 with RMR would rock at 100 yards. Like an M1 Carbine you can wear down the front of your pants. Some have also worked on G20 conversions in x25 Tokarev, 9x23 Win., and some SCHV cal called .224 Boz

 

"Of what i have, my Ruger p95 has been 100% perfect (actually so has my gp100, but i'm thinking autos here) it would be my choice in an emergency."

One of the best values in firearms, and other than the superb Steyr M9A1, the most underrated auto out there due to the quality and reliable function at a affordable blue collar price.

Edited by Steppe Sweeper
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...The G20 was over-engineered as a matter of course because Glock was still using Austrian Proofhouse testing when they designed it and their base load was the spicy hot Fiocci 10mm "Full House" load and the pistol had to survive a 50% overcharge based on that load data to make it through their design process....

 

With that in mind, one wonders wtf happened here:

 

g20kaboom.jpg

Edited by post-apocalyptic
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Besides just being staged it could have been a bad reload.

 

I figure it had to be a (really) bad reload, cause guns are so precious and ridiculously expensive in Australia, (the pic came from an Aussie site), that it'd be extremely wasteful to intentionally kaboom one.

 

I guess if you're stupid enough, you can exceed even the G20's overbuilt tolerances.

Edited by post-apocalyptic
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SHTF denotes I figure on really needing the gun, so concealment is probably not my 1st concern.

 

In as much as I live in an area that doesn't have much in the form of dangerous wildlife (rattle snakes and black bears) more than likely my issue would be with one or more armed people. So I need something to stop them pretty damn quick so they don't shoot me even if I hit them first.

 

While I don't see a long protracted gunfight being either a possibility or survivable against a large group of armed people (only works in Hollywood). I'd want a good chance to hit maybe 2 (or 3) targets in a hurry with just point and shoot / little or no sight picture. (might be dark)

 

Adds up to me as a 1911 in 45acp (my Kimber) as my 1st choice with a Glock in 40 S&W (prefer my 24) as an alternative (I still trust Glocks). These are the pistols I have and shoot well, but I'd be looking to get my hands on a shotgun as soon as possible.

Edited by 20-Mags
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...The G20 was over-engineered as a matter of course because Glock was still using Austrian Proofhouse testing when they designed it and their base load was the spicy hot Fiocci 10mm "Full House" load and the pistol had to survive a 50% overcharge based on that load data to make it through their design process....

 

With that in mind, one wonders wtf happened here:

 

g20kaboom.jpg

Wasn't that from a round of RBCD ammo? Can't remember but it kind of rings a bell

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My choice is one of the original "wonder 9's"...the CZ75. Great shooting pistol and ultra reliable. It's a little on the heavy side compared to Glocks. I read somewhere that there are more CZ75's in use worldwide by the Military and Law Enforcement than any other model handgun. Last time I checked one can still get them for under $500.

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If availability or legality were not an issue....

 

The full auto Glock 17 -With a drum magazine, the incendiary ammo makes for some damn fine gun porn

The Russian dude/full auto/drum mag

 

THAT WAS OUTSTANDING!

 

What in the hell can we compare that to?

 

Not another damned thing, there isn't anything like that with any other pistol :smoke:

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Heres my SHTF concealable pistol I built a few months ago..

 

gallery_26887_666_22445.jpg

 

 

How's it working out for you these days?

What distances have you taken it to with success?

You tried that caliber I kept droning on about?

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If I was going to get 1 pistol for a SHTF situation, what type would it be? Some things to consider would be (feel free to add)

 

Consealable - has to be somewhat small, aka no desert eagle .50

Reliable - Something proven and simple

High capacity - High capacity would be a plus

 

So I was thinking either a Glock 9mm since Glocks have such a great repuation of always firing, a Springfield xdM 9mm since it has 19+1 capacity, or some type of revolver since they're so simple.

Thoughts?

 

Well, we have to define some terms here.. by SHTF, you mean a bug out scenario with widespread looting or some such?

 

In that case, your rifle should be your primary arm. Let that have the hi-cap magazine. Your side arm is the gun you grab when your autoloader jams. You don't NEED a hi-cap mag in your side arm as it will be your last resort gun to put down a threat while you take cover to get your damn rifle working.

 

If you find yourself scrounging for ammo, a .357 revolver can shoot .357 or .38 Special equally well. There are no mags to break or lose.. and yet you can still use speed loaders if you have them for fast reloads.

 

The only way I would choose a Glock for SHTF is if I was going to NOT carry a rifle, or if the rifle I was carrying was a 9mm or .40 carbine.

 

Glocks are great guns for everyday carry. Having more than 6 rounds is good if you fear being mugged by 4 guys and the only gun you have is your Glock. They are great guns if you are military and have a logistics team making sure you have ammo and working mags.

 

But they wouldn't be my first choice when I have rifle too.

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Glock, XD, M&P, H&K, FN45/5.7.... pick your flavor, everyone has a favorite.

 

I run a couple different guns depending upon mood. But my 99% carry is my XD45 Tactical 5". 14rnds of .45acp in a maxtuck rig is low profile, hard hitting, reliable, and the gun I use when I shoot matches. It covers my bases, and you might like it. If you just CAN'T deal with a full size... (With a tuckable holster I can carry mine in a t-shirt)... You can also pick up a PPK/Keltec etc cheap, and run a $10 uncle mikes IWB holster. There are a lot of ways to stay safe, just remember to carry the one you shoot the most. IMHO

 

http://forum.saiga-12.com/uploads/gallery/gallery/album_478/gallery_20718_478_272187.jpggallery_20718_478_272187.jpg

Edited by Heath_h49008
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If I was going to get 1 pistol for a SHTF situation, what type would it be? Some things to consider would be (feel free to add)

 

Consealable - has to be somewhat small, aka no desert eagle .50

Reliable - Something proven and simple

High capacity - High capacity would be a plus

 

So I was thinking either a Glock 9mm since Glocks have such a great repuation of always firing, a Springfield xdM 9mm since it has 19+1 capacity, or some type of revolver since they're so simple.

Thoughts?

 

Well, we have to define some terms here.. by SHTF, you mean a bug out scenario with widespread looting or some such?

 

In that case, your rifle should be your primary arm. Let that have the hi-cap magazine. Your side arm is the gun you grab when your autoloader jams. You don't NEED a hi-cap mag in your side arm as it will be your last resort gun to put down a threat while you take cover to get your damn rifle working.

 

If you find yourself scrounging for ammo, a .357 revolver can shoot .357 or .38 Special equally well. There are no mags to break or lose.. and yet you can still use speed loaders if you have them for fast reloads.

 

The only way I would choose a Glock for SHTF is if I was going to NOT carry a rifle, or if the rifle I was carrying was a 9mm or .40 carbine.

 

Glocks are great guns for everyday carry. Having more than 6 rounds is good if you fear being mugged by 4 guys and the only gun you have is your Glock. They are great guns if you are military and have a logistics team making sure you have ammo and working mags.

 

But they wouldn't be my first choice when I have rifle too.

 

 

A combat handgun gives the advantage of easy maneuverability and movement.

 

Don't believe me: Try running full speed with an 8 lb. rifle slung on your shoulder for 100 yards and then try it with a properly holstered 2 lb. pistol. Still not convinced - try and move in and out of rooms with a long gun keeping yourself on the ready without creating a long conspicuous profile for an enemy to shoot at before you can engage and clear the room.

 

While I agree that a handgun isn't generally as lethal as a rifle or shotgun, the concealment factor will add the advantage of surprise to someone looking at you as a target of opportunity vs. a perceived threat that needs to be engaged and neutralized from a distance.

 

If your number 1 fails, then having a backup that can put out 2-3 times the uninterrupted firepower of a 5 or 6 shot revolver may save your life and give you the time to get to safety to clear the number 1.

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A combat handgun gives the advantage of easy maneuverability and movement.

 

Don't believe me: Try running full speed with an 8 lb. rifle slung on your shoulder for 100 yards and then try it with a properly holstered 2 lb. pistol. Still not convinced - try and move in and out of rooms with a long gun keeping yourself on the ready without creating a long conspicuous profile for an enemy to shoot at before you can engage and clear the room.

 

Running 100 yds with a pistol will be somewhat easier than with a rifle, sure. If it is enough of an issue to make you pick a handgun over a rifle - you should probably stop smoking cigarettes and get in shape..

 

I'm not convinced on the room clearing aspect though. Not in the slightest. In this situation, you're lurking through tight close quarters areas where an enemy may be lurking around any corner. You might surprise each other and "bump" into each other in a very tight space.

In this situation, it is very easy to knock a handgun out of your hands, or grab on to it and get the muzzle pointed back at you. An enemy hurling or dropping a large object can easily make you take a dive and you may instinctively need your hands free and you'll drop your gun.

 

Whereas a properly slung up rifle cannot be taken away from me, and it is almost impossible for the muzzle to point at my head or torso while struggling over the weapon. If I need my hands free instantly, I can just "drop" my rifle and trust my sling.

 

Furthermore, if you're using your pistol properly, it will be at arms length out in front of you while you look down the sights. The muzzle of your gun will be right about where the muzzle of a 16" carbine is in proper position. Similarly, if you point shoot, you'll drop your pistol and the muzzle will be right about where a carbine's muzzle would be when shooting from the hip.

 

While I agree that a handgun isn't generally as lethal as a rifle or shotgun, the concealment factor will add the advantage of surprise to someone looking at you as a target of opportunity vs. a perceived threat that needs to be engaged and neutralized from a distance.

 

If there is a hostile out there capable of engaging me at a distance, I'd rather not depend on their good will to not shoot me with their rifle while I have my pistol concealed. I'd rather have the option of shooting back if they miss than simply appeal to their good nature by appearing unarmed.

 

If your number 1 fails, then having a backup that can put out 2-3 times the uninterrupted firepower of a 5 or 6 shot revolver may save your life and give you the time to get to safety to clear the number 1.

 

If I could have a rifle, semi-auto pistol, and a backup revolver .. that is what I would have, for just this reason. However, if I can only have a rifle, and one handgun - I would choose a revolver, because I want at least 1 gun that is fully functional without magazines.

 

In a SHTF situation, you need solutions that allow you to be as self-reliant as possible. A gun that takes mags has many advantages. Only a fool would dispute that. The main disadvantage though is that it NEEDS mags... otherwise it is just a single shot.

 

And when you're running 100 yds through unfamiliar buildings, getting in firefights -- if you manage to live through all that, there is a good chance some of your gear - including mags - will have gotten lost, dropped, or damaged. Grunts can always ask their buddies for a few mags. You don't have that luxury. You're on your own, with little support. You should have a gun that needs little support.

 

It is the same reason why you should have a good knife. Because as long as you HAVE it, it is good to go.

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A combat handgun gives the advantage of easy maneuverability and movement.

 

Don't believe me: Try running full speed with an 8 lb. rifle slung on your shoulder for 100 yards and then try it with a properly holstered 2 lb. pistol. Still not convinced - try and move in and out of rooms with a long gun keeping yourself on the ready without creating a long conspicuous profile for an enemy to shoot at before you can engage and clear the room.

 

Running 100 yds with a pistol will be somewhat easier than with a rifle, sure. If it is enough of an issue to make you pick a handgun over a rifle - you should probably stop smoking cigarettes and get in shape..

 

I'm not convinced on the room clearing aspect though. Not in the slightest. In this situation, you're lurking through tight close quarters areas where an enemy may be lurking around any corner. You might surprise each other and "bump" into each other in a very tight space.

In this situation, it is very easy to knock a handgun out of your hands, or grab on to it and get the muzzle pointed back at you. An enemy hurling or dropping a large object can easily make you take a dive and you may instinctively need your hands free and you'll drop your gun.

 

Whereas a properly slung up rifle cannot be taken away from me, and it is almost impossible for the muzzle to point at my head or torso while struggling over the weapon. If I need my hands free instantly, I can just "drop" my rifle and trust my sling.

 

Furthermore, if you're using your pistol properly, it will be at arms length out in front of you while you look down the sights. The muzzle of your gun will be right about where the muzzle of a 16" carbine is in proper position. Similarly, if you point shoot, you'll drop your pistol and the muzzle will be right about where a carbine's muzzle would be when shooting from the hip.

 

While I agree that a handgun isn't generally as lethal as a rifle or shotgun, the concealment factor will add the advantage of surprise to someone looking at you as a target of opportunity vs. a perceived threat that needs to be engaged and neutralized from a distance.

 

If there is a hostile out there capable of engaging me at a distance, I'd rather not depend on their good will to not shoot me with their rifle while I have my pistol concealed. I'd rather have the option of shooting back if they miss than simply appeal to their good nature by appearing unarmed.

 

If your number 1 fails, then having a backup that can put out 2-3 times the uninterrupted firepower of a 5 or 6 shot revolver may save your life and give you the time to get to safety to clear the number 1.

 

If I could have a rifle, semi-auto pistol, and a backup revolver .. that is what I would have, for just this reason. However, if I can only have a rifle, and one handgun - I would choose a revolver, because I want at least 1 gun that is fully functional without magazines.

 

In a SHTF situation, you need solutions that allow you to be as self-reliant as possible. A gun that takes mags has many advantages. Only a fool would dispute that. The main disadvantage though is that it NEEDS mags... otherwise it is just a single shot.

 

And when you're running 100 yds through unfamiliar buildings, getting in firefights -- if you manage to live through all that, there is a good chance some of your gear - including mags - will have gotten lost, dropped, or damaged. Grunts can always ask their buddies for a few mags. You don't have that luxury. You're on your own, with little support. You should have a gun that needs little support.

 

It is the same reason why you should have a good knife. Because as long as you HAVE it, it is good to go.

 

17 Loose rounds in your pocket vs. having a magazine loaded in a mag pouch: who's going to lose more rounds while running?

 

As a person who would be defending my family, food and supplies, if I see someone enter into my area with a long gun on the ready after places have been looted and burned to the ground by others, it is in my best interest to make sure this guy doesn't have the same intent and I will view him as a hostile threat. If he has no weapon ready to engage me, I would be able to ask what his intentions are without worry of getting shot. Morals are easy to have when your life isn't in constant danger and friends & neighbors aren't willing to kill you for your supplies that they would otherwise die without. Lastly, a guy with a gun in open view could be looked at as an ammo and weapon resupply for another person watching him.

 

If you think supplies are going to be had less than 100 yards from your base camp, then feel free to wear 50+ pounds of gear and three guns (and ammo) everywhere you go since you won't ever have to run or move quickly. Slow targets are just soooooooo much harder to hit than fast targets. :ph34r:

 

The advantage of a combat handgun over a revolver is the rate of uninterrupted fire with each system. Fire fights don't have time out buttons like your X-Box so you can fiddle around for loose rounds to load your weapon. If you are using a speedloader, then your argument that you will lose a magazine also applies to your speedloaders. If I see a guy with a revolver shooting at me, I can easily count rounds to determine when he needs to reload and then I know I have at least 5 seconds to advance my position unless he is a superhuman speedloader.

 

You need to take a defensive handgun course or a physics class if you think a slung rifle has a slimmer profile and a faster on-target time than a handgun in close quarters.

 

 

 

 

Check out YARP's thread for more insight into the many reasons why a revolver with a pocket of loose rounds isn't used in combat by any modern soldiers.

Edited by BuffetDestroyer
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Sickness-Please don't take this the wrong way. You need to check out training, based of what your saying I can see your school of thought. There are alot of "old" techniques that you mention. For example:"if you're using your pistol properly, it will be at arms length out in front of you while you look down the sights"..... Far from true, it's 2011 and there's many new techniques out there. Point shooting is what you use at room distances with a pistol, there's absolutely no room in my house that I need to acquire my sights in order to make hits. The only time you will actually use your sights at these distances is if your at a stand off. FYI-your rifle muzzle would still be further out then a pistol with arms extended. I've done the comparison so unless your arms are Go-Go-Gadget style......

If you strap your M4, Saiga or whatever your using to your body in order to do CQB then be aware that you will now be flailed around like a little school girl on a rodeo bull when the right bad guy gets a hold of your gun. You will also not be able to transition as fast (Possibly one of the most important things about moving and shooting in a structure) from shoulder to shoulder with your weapon slung.

 

Revolver Vs. Semi-Auto= I like'em both and I now carry them both. The whole mag thing......yeah that's BS train, train, TRAIN and then TRAIN HARDER. Mag retention is important, I haven't lost a mag in a long time. a good option= http://www.maxpedition.com/store/pc/ROLLYPOLY%C3%82%C2%AE-MM-Folding-Dump-Pouch-26p228.htm

I don't think of my Glock as any less reliable then my revolvers. In thousands and thousands of rounds any issues that have occurred have been ammo related. all 2 issues...... your very limited by your 6 rounds vs. my 20 rounds. you will have to reload 6.5 times to my 1 for forty rounds, down time gets you killed.

as far as the multi-caliber thing goes. Having a .357mag/.38 is nice or a S&W Governer in .45ACP/.45LC/.410ga but I can pull of the same type of instance with a barrel change. Glock 20=10mm, .357SIG, .40S&W, 9x25 Dillon without anything but a barrel change and no I've never had any reliability issues while using the stock G20 mags.

Edited by YARP
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Sickness-Please don't take this the wrong way. You need to check out training, based of what your saying I can see your school of thought. There are alot of "old" techniques that you mention.

 

I'm well aware of defensive handgun technique and point shooting. I am also aware that entry teams, for example, typically use carbines not handguns. If pistols are the preferred choice indoors why do you think that is? Are the pros simply wrong?

 

If you strap your M4, Saiga or whatever your using to your body in order to do CQB then be aware that you will now be flailed around like a little school girl on a rodeo bull when the right bad guy gets a hold of your gun.

 

Indeed. And being in that situation is even worse if they grab your pistol. Try it. Have someone bigger and stronger grab your pistol, and try to control it. Bear in mind that in real life there may be multiple attackers going all full contact on your face. And while that is happening, try to grab a blade to get them the hell off you.

 

No thanks. I trust my sling and left hand to control the muzzle just long enough to transition to a blade with my strong hand. A fraction of a second later their hands WILL be off my gun.

 

You will also not be able to transition as fast (Possibly one of the most important things about moving and shooting in a structure) from shoulder to shoulder with your weapon slung.

 

I never said that there are not disadvantages to a sling. Of course there are, but there are also advantages.. and that goes for nearly any type of tool or technique. So?

 

Which you choose is simply a matter of mindset. As long as you train appropriately, it will hopefully be fine - if luck is with you.

 

You have to keep in mind with all this stuff that police and military tactics are not necessarily what is best for YOU as, potentially, a solitary person. They can afford to concentrate on keeping control of their gun long enough for a well-trained team mate to help. They can rely on the fact that ammunition is plentiful and that armorers are standing by to replace guns and mags so long as they manage to make it home.

 

None of that necessarily applies here, at all.

 

Revolver Vs. Semi-Auto= I like'em both and I now carry them both. The whole mag thing......yeah that's BS train, train, TRAIN and then TRAIN HARDER. Mag retention is important, I haven't lost a mag in a long time. a good option= http://www.maxpediti...ouch-26p228.htm

 

The possibility of losing a mag is only one aspect that I mentioned. There is also the possibility of damaging the magazine. Drop bags are great .. I recommend them too. Training is necessary, of course.. but all the training in the world doesn't solve two inevitable truths:

 

1. A semi-auto is nearly useless without mags.

2. Shit happens.

 

The revolver mitigates one of them. The other is a fact of life that training can SOMETIMES lessen, but never solve.

 

I don't think of my Glock as any less reliable then my revolvers

 

Glocks are great guns. I specifically said I'd take a Glock if I couldn't/didn't have a rifle.

 

as far as the multi-caliber thing goes. Having a .357mag/.38 is nice or a S&W Governer in .45ACP/.45LC/.410ga but I can pull of the same type of instance with a barrel change. Glock 20=10mm, .357SIG, .40S&W, 9x25 Dillon without anything but a barrel change and no I've never had any reliability issues while using the stock G20 mags.

 

Yep. But 6 months away from home after bugging out of an urban/problem area into a prolonged situation, when ammo is scarce and you're scrounging up what you can, you can mix and match in a revolver, for instance. And again .. you don't NEED mags. A revolver requires less in the way of support, and offers more in the way of flexibility, and does so at the expense of capacity. Capacity is king when there is plenty of ammo around. But when you've only managed to scrounge up 3 rounds of .40 S&W, and 5 rounds of 9mm it really doesn't matter.

 

Look, semi's are THE way to go for everyday self-defense. I've never said otherwise, nor would I. The OP was asking about a SHTF scenario. This is, by definition, not an EVERYDAY situation. If you manage to survive in such a scenario for an extended period of time, if things don't right themselves, continued survival is probably going to become more and more difficult as ammo and other resources get depleted and there is even greater competition for them.

 

Chock it up to entropy. As reliable as your G20 mags are, sooner or later they are going to develop problems. Not having to rely on them gives you an edge in the end game.

 

I've approached this thread with the idea that there is a single artificial constraint: that one will have ONE handgun. Obviously, in the real world, if you have the opportunity to grab a Glock and a compact .357, one should do so.

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17 Loose rounds in your pocket vs. having a magazine loaded in a mag pouch: who's going to lose more rounds while running?

 

It isn't just running dude. There are all kinds of ways that you might end up losing, or dropping a mag.. or for that matter, a handful of bullets. If you're going to get shot, it is likely to be when you're reloading, yes? So there we both are, I'm reloading a revolver, and you, your glock. A round grazes each of us on our weak arms and we drop what we're doing - literally - and start running. I lose a handful of rounds. You lose more rounds, and more importantly .. the magazine.

 

And yes, we could go back and forth cooking up scenarios that play to the strengths and weaknesses of both platforms. It's meaningless. At the end of the day, you pick a platform, train with it, and try to avoid situations that exploit your weaknesses.

 

I like a revolver as a BACK UP because it doesn't rely on mags. That is one less thing to go wrong, or worry about. You're right about capacity though. Which is why my PRIMARY is a hi-cap semi-auto.

 

As a person who would be defending my family, food and supplies, if I see someone enter into my area with a long gun on the ready after places have been looted and burned to the ground by others, it is in my best interest to make sure this guy doesn't have the same intent and I will view him as a hostile threat. If he has no weapon ready to engage me, I would be able to ask what his intentions are without worry of getting shot. Morals are easy to have when your life isn't in constant danger and friends & neighbors aren't willing to kill you for your supplies that they would otherwise die without. Lastly, a guy with a gun in open view could be looked at as an ammo and weapon resupply for another person watching him.

 

If you're going to wander around into other people's areas as your SHTF plan -- you're not very serious about survival, are you?

But yes.. if for some reason you had to do that, sure I guess you MIGHT want to have a pistol only.

 

Me? I'd probably STILL carry a rifle.. with a white t-shirt tied to the muzzle. And then when some one wants to look at me as an ammo/weapon resupply, or look at my wife as the next rape victim.. I'm still plenty armed.

 

The idea of carrying less of a weapon in order to pose less of a threat as a survival strategy amuses me. Logically it follows one should not be armed at all.

 

If you are using a speedloader, then your argument that you will lose a magazine also applies to your speedloaders.

 

Yes. But the revolver doesn't RELY on the speedloaders. Get it now? If I need to dive out of the way and my onlyspeedloader goes flying it is not imperative that I go get it. It IS imperative for you to chase your last mag down. Even if you have to cross a line of fire to get to it. The gun is a slave to the mag. And you need the gun. So do the arithmetic.

 

I'm not saying that a revolver in an out and out fire fight is a fair match for a semi-auto gun. What I'm saying is that as BACKUP to a semi-auto, being that it requires nothing but the gun, and a source of ammo, I find it superior - especially in a survival situation with scarce and depleting resources.

 

You need to take a defensive handgun course or a physics class if you think a slung rifle has a slimmer profile and a faster on-target time than a handgun in close quarters.

 

Check out YARP's thread for more insight into the many reasons why a revolver with a pocket of loose rounds isn't used in combat by any modern soldiers.

 

Well, as long as we're going to start with the mild condescension and bald assumptions: You need to stop thinking you're a modern soldier, and probably should cut down on the TV..

 

A SHTF scenario is not battlefield combat. It has unique challenges. Warfare, if any description at all fits, is the willing destruction and expenditure of resources on the part of well defined combatants.

 

A SHTF scenario, as usually defined - is quite the opposite. The combatants are not well defined, and rather than willingly destroying and expending resources, they will be sought after. Combat is about the only similarity that I can see between them.

 

In warfare, funded by large nation states, a soldier is entirely reliant on that state to provide him with the tools needed to win the fight. In a SHTF scenario, YOU have to make sure your tools are in working order. Having tools available which need the least support can be a winning strategy for long term survival in such a scenario, especially if you're forced to be moving from place to place and may end up needing to abandon gear and high tail it the hell out of dodge..

Edited by sickness
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If you are in a gunfight, and you finish it positively enough to worry about the next one, you will have the losers gear and time to bend down and pick up your mag. The ground is not a black hole. If you have cover, and a bit of time to put a dropped mag in a pocket, (notice I didn't say empty: tac reloading is something you need to learn) great. If not, you have bigger issues than the loss of a mag and a few rounds.

Edited by Heath_h49008
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A single shot requires no magazine and is the epitome of reliability! Therefore there is no reason to ever need a semi-auto because reliability trumps firepower and there will never be a need to defend against more than one target in SHTF (oops, a Semi without a mag is still a single shot and a functioning weapon that can still lay down firepower, but not at the uninterrupted rate as before).

 

Nobody will ever need to resupply food, clothing, antibiotics/medicine, fuel, ammo or communication devices more than 50 feet away from their impenetrable concrete bunker - so there is no need to ever veer into unknown territory.

 

 

In the absence of law and rule (i.e. anarchy), a totalitarian police state typically fills that void of law (I guess I read too many history books too). Weapon concealment becomes your survival mechanism otherwise you are taken out as a threat by those "in charge". Sorry about watching too much TV news of actual events that have happened in real SHTF scenarios around the world.

 

If there is a police state that arises (maybe similar to post-Katrina, maybe worse), you think you won't be taken out as a threat for openly wearing a rifle with a white t-shirt on it?

 

Obviously I disagree with your view on the purpose of a side-arm and the advantages of concealed carry. And if you can shoot a compact .357 magnum to engage multiple targets faster than a reasonably competent shooter with a Glock without being distracted by the 12 pound double action trigger, the painful recoil slap of the .357 through a J frame, and can consistently reload it on the go in under 3 seconds, then I will concede that you are 100% correct in your choice of SHTF handgun.

 

 

 

Having a military science background leads me to believe that staying in an urban environment is dangerous and unnecessary in a SHTF scenario or any other combat situation. Keep in mind the decaying dead and lack of water and waste management will start to spread disease rampantly after about 2-6 weeks and the second wave of widespread deaths will start if people are still in close confines. If SHTF lasts longer than that, there will be pockets of survivors in the urban environment that are looking to resupply themselves or defend their cache until it becomes TEOTWAWKI or a police state takes over.

Edited by BuffetDestroyer
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