Johnathan T 1 Posted July 19, 2011 Report Share Posted July 19, 2011 Hello everyone. In case you haven't heard. They will be making a 1000 yard AK on the show "Sons Of Guns' on The Discovery Channel, here on the east coast. 9pm Wednesday I would love to shoot that. That got me thinking. What's the the closest group can your Saiga do? Pictures of firearms and/or targets, a plus. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
timy 1,185 Posted July 19, 2011 Report Share Posted July 19, 2011 Dunno for sure but I can do a five foot group at five feet with my 12 and an MD20. Of course that would be going for full coverage rather than pinpoint accuracy. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BuffetDestroyer 969 Posted July 19, 2011 Report Share Posted July 19, 2011 The 7.62x39 has too much drop and lacks the ballistic efficiency to reach out that far and be stabilized. The Saiga .308 or 30-06 will reach out past 800 yards with the right load. I would think the 175 grain Matchking or 155 grain Scenar bullets pushed to max should be stable and supersonic at 1,000 yards. Also the PSL and SVD variants should be capable as well with the right load. I highly doubt that any of these or the SOG AK will be capable of MOA (US Military requirement for "Sniper Rifle") or better without significantly tightening up the tolerances to the point that the main advantage of the AK system goes away - reliability in adverse conditions. Looser tolerances don't help accuracy, but they sure help functioning the action in sandy and sticky environments. Still - it makes entertaining TV. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jmzzl 146 Posted July 19, 2011 Report Share Posted July 19, 2011 The 7.62x39 has too much drop and lacks the ballistic efficiency to reach out that far and be stabilized. The Saiga .308 or 30-06 will reach out past 800 yards with the right load. I would think the 175 grain Matchking or 155 grain Scenar bullets pushed to max should be stable and supersonic at 1,000 yards. Also the PSL and SVD variants should be capable as well with the right load. I highly doubt that any of these or the SOG AK will be capable of MOA (US Military requirement for "Sniper Rifle") or better without significantly tightening up the tolerances to the point that the main advantage of the AK system goes away - reliability in adverse conditions. Looser tolerances don't help accuracy, but they sure help functioning the action in sandy and sticky environments. Still - it makes entertaining TV. I dunno, I wouldn't put anything past Will. I'll watch tomorrow night, might ask him some questions in their forum after. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
longhorn03 10 Posted July 19, 2011 Report Share Posted July 19, 2011 (edited) why would anyone want a 1000 yard ak...., or maybe I should clarify, are they trying get get a hit, get a good grouping? Edited July 19, 2011 by longhorn03 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TonyRumore 1,332 Posted July 19, 2011 Report Share Posted July 19, 2011 ........are they trying get get a hit, get a good grouping? .....get a good TV show. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TARE 47 Posted July 19, 2011 Report Share Posted July 19, 2011 why would anyone want a 1000 yard ak...., or maybe I should clarify, are they trying get get a hit, get a good grouping? If its good to 1000 it's great to 100... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Scott Kenny 144 Posted July 19, 2011 Report Share Posted July 19, 2011 I'd expect a PSL or S.308 to make that work with the right ammo (7N1 or Matchkings), but you're looking at a ~15+" group. That's right at the limits of 'minute of bad guy'. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Johnathan T 1 Posted July 19, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2011 I wouldn't be surprised if the guys at Red Jacket Firearms free float & bed a highly accurized barrel onto an AK receiver. Accurized Intimidation. Every AK owner's dream. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Johnathan T 1 Posted July 19, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2011 Sorry. I made a mistake. "Every AK owner's dream." was suppose to read "Every AK and Saiga owner's dream". Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TARE 47 Posted July 19, 2011 Report Share Posted July 19, 2011 Saiga=AK How can you free float a barrel with a gasblock that attaches to the barrel in the way an AK's gas block does? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RobRez 1,895 Posted July 19, 2011 Report Share Posted July 19, 2011 (edited) ........are they trying get get a hit, get a good grouping? .....get a good TV show. Agreed! I really enjoy this show, but we need to realize that regular 'ol gun repairs is not exiting TV for most folks. Think of these projects as the kind of things you would do, "just because you can" or "just because nobody thinks you can". They do make for a good show. I would have zero need for a 1000 yard AK, but you bet your ass I would love to see the looks on my friends faces if I could hit a target at 1000 yards with an AK!!! It is all Good Fun! Edited July 19, 2011 by RobRez Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TxStrat 5 Posted July 19, 2011 Report Share Posted July 19, 2011 The question is... if it's not a 7.62X39 is it an "AK"? The projectile has to be "stable" at 1000yds for it to be accurate. To be stable it has to be moving faster than the speed of sound, or approx.1129fps. It's not a limitation on the rifle, it's a llimitation on the cartridge. I don't see how its possible to get a 7.62X39 cartridge to fire a bullet where it will still be traveling at or above 1129fps at 1000yds. The only thing you can do to a rifle that has any affect on the velocity of the bullet is increase the barrel lenght, but even then there is a law of diminishing return. A 123grn Hornady SST bullet shot through a 20 in barrel has a muzzle velocity of 2350fps (Hornady factory ammo specs) and will be traveling at 1129fps at 500yds. You can't modify a rifle enough to virtually double the velocity or in this case double the "effective" distance. All that being said. I will definitely be watching. This is a fun show to watch!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Gothmog 24 Posted July 19, 2011 Report Share Posted July 19, 2011 http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?/topic/68805-sons-of-guns-is-back/ post 49, should answer most questions. HUZZAH!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tim Hanlon 6 Posted July 19, 2011 Report Share Posted July 19, 2011 (edited) In the preview for that episode, it looks like it is larger than a 7.62x39 ... more like a full size cartridge like a 308 or 54r maybe? The mag was def. a lot bigger than a 7.62x39 forgot to add: It may be that Redjacket saw what Mark Krebs has come up with in 6.8SPC recently... a friggin' tack driver and was impressive out to 600 yards (?) Edited July 19, 2011 by ozipit Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SOPMOD 254 Posted July 19, 2011 Report Share Posted July 19, 2011 It's a Saiga 308.It has no remote trigger linkage and it's got a trunnion swell on the ejection port side. This won't be a huge stretch if he headspaced it tight, squares the trunnion and bolt lugs and get's the pressures off the barrel(some sort of freefloat tube). I am anxious to see what he does. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
CPF 80 Posted July 19, 2011 Report Share Posted July 19, 2011 ........are they trying get get a hit, get a good grouping? .....get a good TV show. Agreed! I really enjoy this show, but we need to realize that regular 'ol gun repairs is not exiting TV for most folks. Think of these projects as the kind of things you would do, "just because you can" or "just because nobody thinks you can". They do make for a good show. I would have zero need for a 1000 yard AK, but you bet your ass I would love to see the looks on my friends faces if I could hit a target at 1000 yards with an AK!!! It is all Good Fun! My dream is a TV channel much like those home improvement shows where all they do is show you how you can mod your guns and make your own ammo. My remote would never be used afterwards... 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TxStrat 5 Posted July 20, 2011 Report Share Posted July 20, 2011 It's a Saiga 308.It has no remote trigger linkage and it's got a trunnion swell on the ejection port side. This won't be a huge stretch if he headspaced it tight, squares the trunnion and bolt lugs and get's the pressures off the barrel(some sort of freefloat tube). I am anxious to see what he does. I figured it had to be at least a .308. The .308 is more than capable for 1000yds. I am still looking forward to seeing it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Johnathan T 1 Posted July 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 20, 2011 Wow. Great turnout everyone. TARE, thanks for the correction. I should have said, "Free float, the barrel as much as possible." So, everyone, what are your closest groups with a Saiga and let's see pictures of what did it? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TonyRumore 1,332 Posted July 20, 2011 Report Share Posted July 20, 2011 This is the AK that I built a couple of years ago on a milled receiver that has a completely free floated barrel. Nothing and I mean NOTHING is touching that barrel.....though it "appears" the gas tube and hand guard are standard issue. The barrel is hanging cleanly off the receiver. And no....I am not going to share how it was done. Tony Rumore Tromix 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mullet Man 2,114 Posted July 20, 2011 Report Share Posted July 20, 2011 (edited) ^^ BADASS!! Mr. Rumore. Hows it group? The question is... if it's not a 7.62X39 is it an "AK"? You lost me. Edited July 20, 2011 by Mullet Man Quote Link to post Share on other sites
beefcakeb99 572 Posted July 20, 2011 Report Share Posted July 20, 2011 Judging by the filename, I would say sub moa Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rockina 60 Posted July 20, 2011 Report Share Posted July 20, 2011 When it said "1,000 yard AK" I just thought it was R-E-A-L-L-Y long... I'll be watching. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TxStrat 5 Posted July 20, 2011 Report Share Posted July 20, 2011 ^^ BADASS!! Mr. Rumore. Hows it group? The question is... if it's not a 7.62X39 is it an "AK"? You lost me. Does an AK have to be in the 7.62X39 caliber to be considered an AK? I am not saying that it's impossible to hit a target at 1000yds with something in the 7.62X39 caliber, I am saying to do it with any consistency is pretty close to impossible... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Joseph 141 Posted July 20, 2011 Report Share Posted July 20, 2011 (edited) This is the AK that I built a couple of years ago on a milled receiver that has a completely free floated barrel. Nothing and I mean NOTHING is touching that barrel.....though it "appears" the gas tube and hand guard are standard issue. The barrel is hanging cleanly off the receiver. And no....I am not going to share how it was done. Tony Rumore Tromix Wow, i mean everything i've seen a lot of stuff you do you ak platforms and it all seems very achievable but, that, i mean if that's a truly free float barrel that's makes the gun an MOA rifle in apparently 5.45 or 5.56 judging by the mag, color me impressed, i don't know you did that. i mean i get the gas block/tube and one solid piece that the barrel slides into, and the hand guard could be done a lot of different ways but the barrel lock up is mystifying i'd love to see that barrel have the pins punched out and slide right off. quite cool. but really you would have to be designing custom pins and barrel or using a barrel attachment rig from an existing free float platform or something like that and then creating a custom mounting block to weld/rivet into your AK receiver either way a lot of work. That being said, now its a slap together job that's a rickety pin on barrel with a sloppy 4+Moa then i think i have a pretty good idea exactly how you did that. Oh and that barrel looks thicker than the .308, with that milled receiver i bet that things is heavvy Edited July 20, 2011 by Joebanks Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BpS12 512 Posted July 20, 2011 Report Share Posted July 20, 2011 Hmm, the RPK(w/23" barrel) is rated at 1000meters max effective range. However since it was built as a LMG, that effectiveness may very possibly be as suppresive fire rather than "sniper" fire, lol. I'd be happy to squeeze 600m body shots out of it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DrGonZo 157 Posted July 20, 2011 Report Share Posted July 20, 2011 (edited) ^^ BADASS!! Mr. Rumore. Hows it group? The question is... if it's not a 7.62X39 is it an "AK"? You lost me. Does an AK have to be in the 7.62X39 caliber to be considered an AK? Have you heard of an AK74? Its in 5.45x39. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AK-74 They are referring to the AK action, (The receiver, gas system and bolt/carrier) Edited July 20, 2011 by DrGonZo 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TxStrat 5 Posted July 20, 2011 Report Share Posted July 20, 2011 ^^ BADASS!! Mr. Rumore. Hows it group? The question is... if it's not a 7.62X39 is it an "AK"? You lost me. Does an AK have to be in the 7.62X39 caliber to be considered an AK? Have you heard of an AK74? Its in 5.45x39. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AK-74 They are referring to the AK action, (The receiver, gas system and bolt/carrier) OK...OK...OK... point taken. When I first saw the preview/commercial for the episode, I thought they were going to try and get an AK47 in the 7.62X39 caliber to shoot 1000 yds. When I grow up I hope I am as smart as you guys.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TonyRumore 1,332 Posted July 20, 2011 Report Share Posted July 20, 2011 It weighs 12.3 pounds with no magazine in it. I test fired it in the bullet trap, but never took it out for accuracy testing. It's been collecting dust in the safe ever since. Tony Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TxStrat 5 Posted July 20, 2011 Report Share Posted July 20, 2011 It weighs 12.3 pounds with no magazine in it. I test fired it in the bullet trap, but never took it out for accuracy testing. It's been collecting dust in the safe ever since. Tony I would love to hear how it shoots if you ever get a chance to shoot it. Do you drive to Tulsa to shoot or do you have a place out in Inola? I lived in Broken Arrow for 12 years. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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