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HK vs Red Dot Sight on saiga 12


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#1 texas_dawg

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Posted 27 July 2011 - 11:00 AM

Looking at quick target aquisition sights for the saiga 12 considering some of the following

weld on HK style
rail mount hk Style on forarm
rail mount Red Dot on forarm
rail mount Red Dot on sight mount using the optic mount (side mount) on gun

Wondering what are the pluses and minuses, and if Red Dot looks feasible which
specific sights are best.

#2 T47

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Posted 27 July 2011 - 11:02 AM

HK sights and Red dot..

#3 MT Predator

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Posted 27 July 2011 - 11:20 AM

Chaos Extended rail with Chaos HK style sights co-witnessed with an Aimpoint Comp M2 work fine on my S12.
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#4 dieb4iwake

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Posted 27 July 2011 - 11:51 AM

look at Post Apocalyptic's set up thats what you should do

Edited by dieb4iwake, 27 July 2011 - 11:51 AM.

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#5 post-apocalyptic

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Posted 27 July 2011 - 03:19 PM

look at Post Apocalyptic's set up thats what you should do


Thanks for the compliment, man. :)

H&K irons + Aimpoint Micro on a Tromix rail = pretty perfect imo...

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#6 6500rpm

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Posted 27 July 2011 - 07:43 PM

XS big dot tritium HK sights-best of both worlds and a less cluttered rear peep. Or a Docter/ quality clone if you want a red dot (small, light, and frames target well). Krebs with a XS big dot also works well. All good options.

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#7 ZombieJefferson

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Posted 27 July 2011 - 07:57 PM

I'm running the really awesome bead, works great

These guys over at Izhevsk put it on for me

Edited by Joebanks, 27 July 2011 - 07:57 PM.

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#8 texas_dawg

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Posted 27 July 2011 - 08:22 PM

Is that rail welded onto thecover? or is it bolted

#9 post-apocalyptic

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Posted 27 July 2011 - 08:41 PM

Is that rail welded onto thecover? or is it bolted


Silver soldered, actually.. but welding works. :D

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#10 Scott Gwin

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Posted 27 July 2011 - 09:45 PM

I have a rail that mounts where the original sights were. On this I have an EOTech EXPS 3-2. This setup is just awesome for me. Mounting the rail up front like this offers me a completely stable place to mount a sighting system plus I've always been a fan of scout style sight mounting. Before trying the EOTech I tried a small Burris red dot that was made for handguns. I got the idea for that from the guys at RandRtargets.com. I wasn't completely satisfied with this and switched to the EOTech and haven't looked back. It might be a bit heavier but the field of view is larger and it will stand up to more punishment than the Burris. You'd have to come up with something super double top secret to get me to switch from this setup. In one of the attached pictures I have a flashlight mounted to show that there's enough room on the rail for extra stuff should you want it. I've successfully shot skeet and slugs out to 100 yards to my satisfaction.

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#11 erwos

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Posted 28 July 2011 - 08:33 AM

You always want irons of some sort.

I have rail-mounted HK416 sights on my S12 with extended Chaos rail. They work fine, but you will need a cheek riser to view them properly. Welded HK sights won't require a cheek riser AFAIK. The Chaos sights also won't require a cheek riser, although I suspect it might make them somewhat more comfortable. The problem with the Chaos sights is that you can't really adjust them - on the other hand, they're currently the cheapest option if you buy them with a rail.

Red dots are a potential problem... many of them are designed to co-witness with AR-15 sights, which means they're going to be riding high. I'd assume an Aimpoint Micro (or clone thereof) would be better if you're using weld-on or Chaos sights.

If I did this again (SBS?), I'd probably go with weld-on HKs and use a Russian side-mount rail to provide a mount for the red dot.

Edited by erwos, 28 July 2011 - 08:35 AM.


#12 Nailbomb

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Posted 28 July 2011 - 09:32 AM

I have one of each

Tromix H&K setup with aimpoint, and a Chaos Titan setup with Chaos H&K sights and a primary arms red dot.

Both work great. Its simply a question of your skill level, pocketbook, and how much you want to save weight.
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#13 Bitbasher

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Posted 28 July 2011 - 12:46 PM

Bah, I'm a freak so I went with an LPA BAR rear ghost ring with the Chaos front sight co witnessed with a PrimaryArms aimpoint micro clone with a fixed base.

The ghost ring rear doesn't obstruct the lower part of your vision like the HK sights do, giving you a better field of view and very, very fast targeting.

It's not a cheap option though.

Edited by Bitbasher, 28 July 2011 - 12:46 PM.


#14 texas_dawg

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Posted 29 July 2011 - 04:19 PM

If I did this again (SBS?), I'd probably go with weld-on HKs and use a Russian side-mount rail to provide a mount for the red dot.


Thats kind of what I am leaning towards. But with the side mount is it stable enough? Or would one have to continually resight it.

btw, thanks all, great information here, one would never have time to try all the options. I like iron because its always there always works, and the HK is more than enough for home defense applications. However, the technology is a lot more fun to play around with. While it primary purpose is a home defense weapon, i stil l plan on shooting a lot for fun.

#15 TX-Zen

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Posted 29 July 2011 - 05:11 PM

But with the side mount is it stable enough? Or would one have to continually resight it.



The side rail system definitely works, the Russians have been using it for a long time to mount all kinds of optics to AK's, SVD's, RPK's etc. It's a proven system and my experience has been extremely good over the past 6-7 years.

One thing to consider is that optics slide on from the rear of the rail along the top of the receiver cover. I don't have HK sights installed on my S12 but it looks like they will block most optics from sliding on. I'm going to borrow a friend's S12 and see for myself but I don't think HK and side rails will work together.





Z

#16 MT Predator

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Posted 29 July 2011 - 07:16 PM

Red dots are a potential problem... many of them are designed to co-witness with AR-15 sights, which means they're going to be riding high. I'd assume an Aimpoint Micro (or clone thereof) would be better if you're using weld-on or Chaos sights.

An EOTech will ride high by design. In the right mount, an Aimpoint, even a full sized one, will co-witness the Chaos HK style sights just as good as PA's Aimpoint Micro.
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#17 raidersfan_5544

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Posted 02 August 2011 - 08:34 PM

XS big dot tritium HK sights-best of both worlds and a less cluttered rear peep. Or a Docter/ quality clone if you want a red dot (small, light, and frames target well). Krebs with a XS big dot also works well. All good options.


+1 on the XS. They work great on my Tromix 12in SBS for day and low light conditions. Was out smashing clays with it the other day actually.

#18 topmaul

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Posted 02 August 2011 - 08:50 PM

I have been thinking a lot about sites and optics here is what I came up with, I put a delta point on a CSS quad rail and I'm happy with it if I need to I can use the irons under my Deltapoint.

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#19 TX-Zen

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Posted 02 August 2011 - 09:38 PM

Tested it with NinerRider's S12 and pretty much nothing I had could get on the rail, the HK sights blocked everything I tried.



Z

#20 Alpha Kilo

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 12:56 AM

Tested it with NinerRider's S12 and pretty much nothing I had could get on the rail, the HK sights blocked everything I tried.



Z



Mine was SO close to not working. On mine the dust cover has to be removed before the aimpoint/rs mount combo. (which was extra tight because of the added dust cover retention hood I added.
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#21 Deadclown

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 02:20 PM

I have a rail that mounts where the original sights were. On this I have an EOTech EXPS 3-2. This setup is just awesome for me. Mounting the rail up front like this offers me a completely stable place to mount a sighting system plus I've always been a fan of scout style sight mounting. Before trying the EOTech I tried a small Burris red dot that was made for handguns. I got the idea for that from the guys at RandRtargets.com. I wasn't completely satisfied with this and switched to the EOTech and haven't looked back. It might be a bit heavier but the field of view is larger and it will stand up to more punishment than the Burris. You'd have to come up with something super double top secret to get me to switch from this setup. In one of the attached pictures I have a flashlight mounted to show that there's enough room on the rail for extra stuff should you want it. I've successfully shot skeet and slugs out to 100 yards to my satisfaction.

I like the first hand guard How do you mount the AFG on it?



#22 slostang

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 04:27 PM

Currently running an aimpoint m2 on mine with a chaos rail.

#23 jeremiahisnaked

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 05:48 PM

Dead Clown, he drilled holes in the bottom (kinda tricky to get it right) then mounted a rail section I presume.



#24 techvt

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Posted 11 September 2013 - 01:06 PM

I'm running a Midwest Industries AK scope mount and a Vortex Razor red dot...seems to be a good combo and can be quickly removed.

http://www.midwestin...category_ID=433

http://www.vortexopt...y/razor_red_dot

 

 

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Edited by techvt, 11 September 2013 - 01:30 PM.





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