tStreets 1 Posted August 27, 2011 Report Share Posted August 27, 2011 Any chance that they come over as 10rd single stack rifles and are converted to double stack by Arsenal with the appropriate 922r compliance parts. I can't find any welded linkage pin holes on mine so I am going to propose a basic hypothesis. They might be arriving in some variation with the trigger forward already. That there makes 100% since to me !!!!!!!! Ill be damned if they start coming like this!!! AHHH! This would make conversions even more easier... Yeah, more easier... Looks like I missed out. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TX-Zen 287 Posted August 27, 2011 Report Share Posted August 27, 2011 Any chance that they come over as 10rd single stack rifles and are converted to double stack by Arsenal with the appropriate 922r compliance parts. I can't find any welded linkage pin holes on mine so I am going to propose a basic hypothesis. They might be arriving in some variation with the trigger forward already. We know the trigger guard is Bulgarian, so we can probably assume Izhmash didn't install it at the factory. I'm not sure why they would ship an Arsenal injection molded US made trigger with it either, just so we could have it in the right spot when Arsenal opens the box. If anything they probably ship without a Russian FCG at all, or as suggested in the sporter location but ready to drop out. Just thinking outloud Z Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BLSSIMMONS 15 Posted August 28, 2011 Report Share Posted August 28, 2011 Any chance that they come over as 10rd single stack rifles and are converted to double stack by Arsenal with the appropriate 922r compliance parts. I can't find any welded linkage pin holes on mine so I am going to propose a basic hypothesis. They might be arriving in some variation with the trigger forward already. That there makes 100% since to me !!!!!!!! Ill be damned if they start coming like this!!! AHHH! This would make conversions even more easier... Yeah, more easier... Looks like I missed out. The thing is we don't know how Arsenal gets them imported to them.. It would be nice to know, but I don't think they'll let use on there secret. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
thebuns1 4,323 Posted August 30, 2011 Report Share Posted August 30, 2011 Any chance that they come over as 10rd single stack rifles and are converted to double stack by Arsenal with the appropriate 922r compliance parts. I can't find any welded linkage pin holes on mine so I am going to propose a basic hypothesis. They might be arriving in some variation with the trigger forward already. We know the trigger guard is Bulgarian, so we can probably assume Izhmash didn't install it at the factory. I'm not sure why they would ship an Arsenal injection molded US made trigger with it either, just so we could have it in the right spot when Arsenal opens the box. If anything they probably ship without a Russian FCG at all, or as suggested in the sporter location but ready to drop out. Just thinking outloud Z just curious Z, but how do we know the trigger guards are bulgy? ive been trying to find differences in them on the net and no one seems to have any side by side comparisons that i could find. not saying your wrong, just educate me on this aspect if you will. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TX-Zen 287 Posted August 30, 2011 Report Share Posted August 30, 2011 (edited) Basically it's two things, the Bulgarian TG is squared off under the PG while the Izzy is rounded. Additionally the Izzy has a clover edge with a square plate underneath (circled in red). The Bulgarian is normally square and has no clover but someone has apparently dremelled the TG into a clover...along with the square plate underneath. It looks like this is done after the TG is riveted in place. There was a discussion on this over at theakforum.net, it seems the Russians for sure have a clover on the TG but not the plate underneath. The Bulgarians don't use a clover at all....so if it's both the TG and the plate it seems likely to be a cosmetic dremel job. Also check http://tantal.kalashnikov.guns.ru/variants.html a ways down, they show the 3 main types of trigger guards. Remember Bulgarian basically means Russian but the Bulgarians never modernized their original AK74 machinery, unlike the Russians who did. What that means is that more or less in the eighties they had very similar AK74's, but definitely in the early 90's the Russians had condensed a lot of changes into the AK74M which makes it much easier to tell them apart. The Bulgarian TG appears to be a type B and the AK74M or SGL31 trigger guard should be the type C. The pics aren't great on the site but the debate was interesting and helped me form the base of what I've been saying in this thread. Z Edited August 30, 2011 by TX-Zen Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BLSSIMMONS 15 Posted August 30, 2011 Report Share Posted August 30, 2011 (edited) Talked to Arsenal today about the SGL series and they said the TG is US made.. So now we know the TG, trigger group, Furniture and muzzle are US... Also when they re coat they use the same coating that's used at the Izhmash Factory. Edited August 30, 2011 by THE AK DUDE Quote Link to post Share on other sites
my762buzz 141 Posted August 30, 2011 Report Share Posted August 30, 2011 Talked to Arsenal today about the SGL series and they said the TG is US made.. So now we know the TG, trigger group, Furniture and muzzle are US... Also when they re coat they use the same coating that's used at the Izhmash Factory. It looks like the same coating but on mine some paint remover ripped the trigger guard paint off pretty fast compared to the rest of the rifle. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
my762buzz 141 Posted August 30, 2011 Report Share Posted August 30, 2011 (edited) Any chance that they come over as 10rd single stack rifles and are converted to double stack by Arsenal with the appropriate 922r compliance parts. I can't find any welded linkage pin holes on mine so I am going to propose a basic hypothesis. They might be arriving in some variation with the trigger forward already. We know the trigger guard is Bulgarian, so we can probably assume Izhmash didn't install it at the factory. I'm not sure why they would ship an Arsenal injection molded US made trigger with it either, just so we could have it in the right spot when Arsenal opens the box. If anything they probably ship without a Russian FCG at all, or as suggested in the sporter location but ready to drop out. Just thinking outloud Z Ok, with this version a US trigger guard can be riveted on fast and a bullet guide could too,and still no rear pin holes. A quick furniture swap and its done. Very little work left for the crew at Arsenal. Edited August 30, 2011 by my762buzz Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BLSSIMMONS 15 Posted August 30, 2011 Report Share Posted August 30, 2011 (edited) Any chance that they come over as 10rd single stack rifles and are converted to double stack by Arsenal with the appropriate 922r compliance parts. I can't find any welded linkage pin holes on mine so I am going to propose a basic hypothesis. They might be arriving in some variation with the trigger forward already. We know the trigger guard is Bulgarian, so we can probably assume Izhmash didn't install it at the factory. I'm not sure why they would ship an Arsenal injection molded US made trigger with it either, just so we could have it in the right spot when Arsenal opens the box. If anything they probably ship without a Russian FCG at all, or as suggested in the sporter location but ready to drop out. Just thinking outloud Z Ok, with this version a US trigger guard can be riveted on fast and a bullet guide could too,and still no rear pin holes. A quick furniture swap and its done. Very little work left for the crew at Arsenal. I agree with you and they only coat the parts they make.. They may coat, but it sounds like they don't do as good as job as the Izhmash factory !!!!! What all parts did the coating come off easy, cause that will let use now who.... Edited August 30, 2011 by THE AK DUDE Quote Link to post Share on other sites
my762buzz 141 Posted August 30, 2011 Report Share Posted August 30, 2011 Any chance that they come over as 10rd single stack rifles and are converted to double stack by Arsenal with the appropriate 922r compliance parts. I can't find any welded linkage pin holes on mine so I am going to propose a basic hypothesis. They might be arriving in some variation with the trigger forward already. We know the trigger guard is Bulgarian, so we can probably assume Izhmash didn't install it at the factory. I'm not sure why they would ship an Arsenal injection molded US made trigger with it either, just so we could have it in the right spot when Arsenal opens the box. If anything they probably ship without a Russian FCG at all, or as suggested in the sporter location but ready to drop out. Just thinking outloud Z Ok, with this version a US trigger guard can be riveted on fast and a bullet guide could too,and still no rear pin holes. A quick furniture swap and its done. Very little work left for the crew at Arsenal. I agree with you and they only coat the parts they make.. They may coat, but it sounds like they don't do as good as job as the Izhmash factory !!!!! What all parts did the coating come off easy, cause that will let use now who.... The trigger guard and oddly one of the lower bayonet lugs. The lower bayonet lug was probably just touched up from a scratch while at Arsenal but I am not really sure why on this part. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BLSSIMMONS 15 Posted August 30, 2011 Report Share Posted August 30, 2011 (edited) Any chance that they come over as 10rd single stack rifles and are converted to double stack by Arsenal with the appropriate 922r compliance parts. I can't find any welded linkage pin holes on mine so I am going to propose a basic hypothesis. They might be arriving in some variation with the trigger forward already. We know the trigger guard is Bulgarian, so we can probably assume Izhmash didn't install it at the factory. I'm not sure why they would ship an Arsenal injection molded US made trigger with it either, just so we could have it in the right spot when Arsenal opens the box. If anything they probably ship without a Russian FCG at all, or as suggested in the sporter location but ready to drop out. Just thinking outloud Z Ok, with this version a US trigger guard can be riveted on fast and a bullet guide could too,and still no rear pin holes. A quick furniture swap and its done. Very little work left for the crew at Arsenal. I agree with you and they only coat the parts they make.. They may coat, but it sounds like they don't do as good as job as the Izhmash factory !!!!! What all parts did the coating come off easy, cause that will let use now who.... The trigger guard and oddly one of the lower bayonet lugs. The lower bayonet lug was probably just touched up from a scratch while at Arsenal but I am not really sure why on this part. We know now the Trigger Guard is US along with the Muzzle, Trigger Group and Furniture. Edited August 30, 2011 by THE AK DUDE Quote Link to post Share on other sites
thebuns1 4,323 Posted August 31, 2011 Report Share Posted August 31, 2011 Basically it's two things, the Bulgarian TG is squared off under the PG while the Izzy is rounded. Additionally the Izzy has a clover edge with a square plate underneath (circled in red). The Bulgarian is normally square and has no clover but someone has apparently dremelled the TG into a clover...along with the square plate underneath. It looks like this is done after the TG is riveted in place. There was a discussion on this over at theakforum.net, it seems the Russians for sure have a clover on the TG but not the plate underneath. The Bulgarians don't use a clover at all....so if it's both the TG and the plate it seems likely to be a cosmetic dremel job. Also check http://tantal.kalash...u/variants.html a ways down, they show the 3 main types of trigger guards. Remember Bulgarian basically means Russian but the Bulgarians never modernized their original AK74 machinery, unlike the Russians who did. What that means is that more or less in the eighties they had very similar AK74's, but definitely in the early 90's the Russians had condensed a lot of changes into the AK74M which makes it much easier to tell them apart. The Bulgarian TG appears to be a type B and the AK74M or SGL31 trigger guard should be the type C. The pics aren't great on the site but the debate was interesting and helped me form the base of what I've been saying in this thread. Z thanks for the info. i wonder if this is one of the culprits of several bolt over base failure to feeds ive read about some arsenals having. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BLSSIMMONS 15 Posted September 1, 2011 Report Share Posted September 1, 2011 (edited) This is the Russian AKM TG Arsenal made there's from... As you can see it's rounded just like our SGL Arsenal's TG. There going to make it Russian Spec. just like the furniture and Muzzle. Just My 2 Cents.. Edited September 1, 2011 by THE AK DUDE Quote Link to post Share on other sites
iarneau 44 Posted October 21, 2011 Report Share Posted October 21, 2011 Either way you won't go wrong, as long as you don't make a mistake with a conversion. Notice how guys with arsenals don't "bash" converters but there are a lot of converters who swear up and down that arsenals are terrible. Many peoole have a mindset with which they will say anything but what THEY own is junk simply because it's not theirs. At least the sgl series from Arsenal, of which I have one, are of excellent quality. Will the finish last if you drag it down a gravel road tied to your car? No, but what finish would? Think about it, that is the only consistently negative remark I hear about Arsenals and if that's the worst problem they have then I say they're on the right track. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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