alliwantisapepsi 3 Posted July 31, 2011 Report Share Posted July 31, 2011 Finally headed to the range for the maiden voyage. Shot about 250 rounds of Yugoslavia surplus headstamp 1983. Did the ammonia windex soak down the bore and boltface then packed it up. About four hours later I was stripping for cleaning and noticed an ungodly amount of rust in my gas tube? Can the gas tube oxidize that quickly? I'm pretty sure I checked the tube prior to cleaning as I wiped everything down with REM oil. Should I be concerned? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
irishsandman 17 Posted July 31, 2011 Report Share Posted July 31, 2011 Finally headed to the range for the maiden voyage. Shot about 250 rounds of Yugoslavia surplus headstamp 1983. Did the ammonia windex soak down the bore and boltface then packed it up. About four hours later I was stripping for cleaning and noticed an ungodly amount of rust in my gas tube? Can the gas tube oxidize that quickly? I'm pretty sure I checked the tube prior to cleaning as I wiped everything down with REM oil. Should I be concerned? I think it is possible, not too sure, but adding the chemicals may have sped the process up. may want to check out this video, kinda surprised me: Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rhodes1968 1,638 Posted July 31, 2011 Report Share Posted July 31, 2011 Not much salt in the yugo as only the primer contains any. It wouldn't rust like that unless water was present in the gas tube with heavy salt still in the system. Use lots of water or wait till you get home to do it right, preferably both. I clean the tube every use and have had zero problems. If gas touches it clean it no matter what you fire. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sirex 34 Posted July 31, 2011 Report Share Posted July 31, 2011 The Yugo ammo, while good is corrosive. I bought some for my Yugo SKS. Many Yugo SKSs were brought over with the gas systems completely corroded up. Fortunately mine was unissued I guess, as it was spotless. For plinking I just use the cheap Walmart stuff in my Saiga and SKS. It's OK stuff. If I want to push my accuracy, I'll use the Yugo stuff, but you REALLY need to clean the gun very thoroughly after shooting. I have heard the Russian surplus 5.45 is the MOST corrosive stuff out there, but I don't own a 5.45 Saiga yet. I have a little bottle of water and Ballistol mix with a tube attachment I just squeeze down the chamber thru the barrel and gas tube. When the water evaporates, it leaves a film of ballistol behind. Pretty easy quick treatmant at the range, and I can clean later cause I rarely go straight home. GL Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rhodes1968 1,638 Posted July 31, 2011 Report Share Posted July 31, 2011 There is something cheaper than yugo? Any common sense approach works but trust me compared to a lot of combloc mil-surp the yugo is very slight in its corrosion. I take a two liter bottle for cleaning the salt, no need to skimp on the water. Even heard of soldiers taking a leak on the things to clean them...not recommend! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
CPF 80 Posted July 31, 2011 Report Share Posted July 31, 2011 It's not rust, its just residue from the ammo. Just use a brush to get it off, as it gets caked on quick. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
alliwantisapepsi 3 Posted August 1, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 1, 2011 Actually pulled the gas tube off and that thing was pitted to hell. Sort of ate up my piston. I'm thinking it was there when I bought it. I thought I went through it, but probably overlooked the gas tube. I heard of a few guys having this same issue. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rhodes1968 1,638 Posted August 1, 2011 Report Share Posted August 1, 2011 After you do the water flush as seen above, every once in a while do a though cleaning as seen below. No matter what ammo you use. That will prevent any nasty surprises in the future. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
whitetrashrn 74 Posted August 2, 2011 Report Share Posted August 2, 2011 I am a big fan of surplus Yugo. I wipe it all down with windex when I get home then Rem Oil. Never had 1 pit anywhere. I do have a gas piston from a yugo M64 kit that was really pitted. I can see how it can happen when left alone. The pitting was severe. The gas tube was not bothered or was the gas block. The barrel was black inside but the riflng was good and not pitted. Turned out to be nice when It was all done. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BigChongus 765 Posted August 2, 2011 Report Share Posted August 2, 2011 The rust has nothing to do with the ammo. It's because you soaked the thing down and let it sit. It would've done the same thing with non-corrosive ammo. IMO the whole windex thing is a waste of time. Just scrub the gun out with dish soap and water then dry and oil it thoroughly. Barely shoot corrosive in my 7.62, but all I use in my 5.45 is 7N6 (which is supposedly more corrosive than M67). There's no a spec of corrosion in it. I've even let it sit for a few days without cleaning it and still didn't get any corrosion. You're better off just letting it sit with whatever residue is in it than actually adding unneeded moisture to the mix. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rhodes1968 1,638 Posted August 3, 2011 Report Share Posted August 3, 2011 Oh yeah that 7N6 stuff is on the corrosive side. Good ammo though. Still no problems getting it I hope. Didn't think he might not be drying the weapon out after flushing, good catch. I live in a near constant 90-100% relative humidity environment so there is going to be moisture with or without the flush. Windex is used by a lot of guys because its easy and stores well in a bag without problems and I have never seen it hurt anything either. Honestly what is it about cleaning a weapon after use that everyone finds so objectionable. Learn to love it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
alliwantisapepsi 3 Posted August 3, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 3, 2011 This was my first time shooting it. I think it was rusted when I bought it new. Its a TGI new old stock 09. Absolutely great fit and finish with all the good stuff (except threaded barrel ). The factory test shot must have been with corrosive ammo and they never cleaned the gas tube. It only sat for 3 hours after firing and I only ran windex on the boltface and through the bore. BTW- thanks for all the input. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
my762buzz 141 Posted August 3, 2011 Report Share Posted August 3, 2011 I left windex on a fairly new stainless steel knife for a couple of hours. I got rust pitting and corrosive etching. I sure wouldn't leave windex in my barrel. Water flushes away any salts just fine. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
my762buzz 141 Posted August 3, 2011 Report Share Posted August 3, 2011 You're better off just letting it sit with whatever residue is in it than actually adding unneeded moisture to the mix. Yes, absolutely true. Rust is iron oxide which means iron combined with oxygen. In order for this to happen, water needs to be present. No water, no moisture in the air, then no problem. http://science.howstuffworks.com/question445.htm Letting windex(over 90% water)sit on steel is asking for trouble. The ammonium in windex makes it even more corrosive than water alone. Water, ammonium, and salts combined make a fantastic corrosion promoting solution. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
my762buzz 141 Posted August 3, 2011 Report Share Posted August 3, 2011 About four hours later I was stripping for cleaning and noticed an ungodly amount of rust in my gas tube? Can the gas tube oxidize that quickly? I'm pretty sure I checked the tube prior to cleaning as I wiped everything down with REM oil. Should I be concerned? The gas tube inner surface is unprotected as in non-chromelined steel unlike the inner gas block is on saigas which is chrome lined. Hot gases exit the barrel partially through the gas hole then enter into the gas block and then pass into the gas tube area where the hot gases contact the cooler gas tube. Just like your breath can condense against a cooler glass window and fog it, the hot gases will also condense against cooler surfaces like the gas tube. I have seen my gas tubes get small amounts of rust even shooting American made ammo that is absolutely non corrosive. Shooting corrosive primers just makes it worse. Maybe a chrome plated inner gas tube would likely prevent this permanently. Other than that, a lite coat of heavy grease might help. Just avoid getting any oil or grease in the gas block. That part needs to stay clean and dry. So many vendors and no chrome plated gas tubes. Man I bet a few people might want a few????????????????????? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
danklab 57 Posted August 4, 2011 Report Share Posted August 4, 2011 About four hours later I was stripping for cleaning and noticed an ungodly amount of rust in my gas tube? Can the gas tube oxidize that quickly? I'm pretty sure I checked the tube prior to cleaning as I wiped everything down with REM oil. Should I be concerned? The gas tube inner surface is unprotected as in non-chromelined steel unlike the inner gas block is on saigas which is chrome lined. Hot gases exit the barrel partially through the gas hole then enter into the gas block and then pass into the gas tube area where the hot gases contact the cooler gas tube. Just like your breath can condense against a cooler glass window and fog it, the hot gases will also condense against cooler surfaces like the gas tube. I have seen my gas tubes get small amounts of rust even shooting American made ammo that is absolutely non corrosive. Shooting corrosive primers just makes it worse. Maybe a chrome plated inner gas tube would likely prevent this permanently. Other than that, a lite coat of heavy grease might help. Just avoid getting any oil or grease in the gas block. That part needs to stay clean and dry. So many vendors and no chrome plated gas tubes. Man I bet a few people might want a few????????????????????? I was actually thinking the same thing yesterday myself... how nice a chrome lined gas tube would be. I went out shooting and was cleaning my Sx39. I've also got some rust in my factory gas tube and have never run any corrosive ammo through it. Shot plenty of bear, wolf, golden tiger, and uly though, and didn't always have the most dedicated cleaning regiment for that rifle. Since I noticed the rust I usually try to clean it up after shooting now. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BuffetDestroyer 969 Posted August 5, 2011 Report Share Posted August 5, 2011 Even heard of soldiers taking a leak on the things to clean them...not recommend! Peeing on it will introduce more salts so it is best to wait until you can get fresh water. Cleaning after using the Yugo stuff is not as urgent and difficult as people make it out to be. Remember: water dissolves most salts, salts attract moisture(water) and water creates oxidation. If you are in an arid environment, the salts won't have much moisture in the air to attract. A layer of oil on top of salts will prevent water from attaching to the salt and then the metal (this will however burn and smoke off after your next shot - exposing the salts underneath again). Most salts are water soluble, but the water needs to be dried quickly and oil prevents the adherence of moisture to the metal. Some solvents (Sweets 7.62, Hoppes #9 and several others) will also dissolve the salts and allow them to be washed away. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rhodes1968 1,638 Posted August 5, 2011 Report Share Posted August 5, 2011 I never thought of cleaning a rifle as a chore unless blanks were being fired, what a frocking mess. Sometimes I will just do a complete cleaning at the range on my truck gate. Maybe we should be telling people yugo makes them impotent so they steer away from it? Leaves more for the rest of us. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ironhead7544 35 Posted August 6, 2011 Report Share Posted August 6, 2011 I use the black powder cleaners first to get the salts out. Then clean normally with CLP. No problems with 7N6. After firing on the range, spray the bore/parts down with WD40. This will keep the water out until you can clean. WD40 will evaporate so dont wait to long. I have seen some ammo corrode and rust in 2 hours or so in humid conditions. But most ammo will not be that bad. Soap and water will also work. But I find the black power cleaners less messy. Ammonia does not neutralize the salts. But it does clean out the gunk. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
my762buzz 141 Posted August 6, 2011 Report Share Posted August 6, 2011 I use the black powder cleaners first to get the salts out. Then clean normally with CLP. No problems with 7N6. After firing on the range, spray the bore/parts down with WD40. This will keep the water out until you can clean. WD40 will evaporate so dont wait to long. I have seen some ammo corrode and rust in 2 hours or so in humid conditions. But most ammo will not be that bad. Soap and water will also work. But I find the black power cleaners less messy.Ammonia does not neutralize the salts. But it does clean out the gunk. The WD40 is a very good point. Any nonpolar (oil based) fluid like motor oil,wd 40, kerosene, petroleum jelly, cosmoline, vegetable oil, animal fats like lard will coat the steel and prevent any corrosion. The eastern block armories used cosmoline(oil based) for decades to prevent rust and it worked just fine. Instead of windex (very bad idea from a long time ago), if shooters want to prevent corrosion until they have time to clean a squirt bottle of motor oil or WD40 would keep oxidation from happening. Salt cannot do its dirty work of creating corrosion while swimming in oil based media. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shades_of_grey 1,092 Posted August 6, 2011 Report Share Posted August 6, 2011 (edited) The gas tube inner surface is unprotected as in non-chromelined steel unlike the inner gas block is on saigas which is chrome lined. Hot gases exit the barrel partially through the gas hole then enter into the gas block and then pass into the gas tube area where the hot gases contact the cooler gas tube. Just like your breath can condense against a cooler glass window and fog it, the hot gases will also condense against cooler surfaces like the gas tube. I have seen my gas tubes get small amounts of rust even shooting American made ammo that is absolutely non corrosive. Shooting corrosive primers just makes it worse... So many vendors and no chrome plated gas tubes. Man I bet a few people might want a few????????????????????? The gas tube is easily replaced, barely necessary, (more of a guide for the piston than anything), and has got to be cheap to manufacture, which is why I'm guessing Ivan never bothered to chrome it. For the US market; a chromed gas tube option would be very welcome. Edited August 6, 2011 by post-apocalyptic Quote Link to post Share on other sites
my762buzz 141 Posted August 6, 2011 Report Share Posted August 6, 2011 (edited) The gas tube inner surface is unprotected as in non-chromelined steel unlike the inner gas block is on saigas which is chrome lined. Hot gases exit the barrel partially through the gas hole then enter into the gas block and then pass into the gas tube area where the hot gases contact the cooler gas tube. Just like your breath can condense against a cooler glass window and fog it, the hot gases will also condense against cooler surfaces like the gas tube. I have seen my gas tubes get small amounts of rust even shooting American made ammo that is absolutely non corrosive. Shooting corrosive primers just makes it worse... So many vendors and no chrome plated gas tubes. Man I bet a few people might want a few????????????????????? The gas tube is easily replaced, barely necessary, (more of a guide for the piston than anything), and has got to be cheap to manufacture, which is why I'm guessing Ivan never bothered to chrome it. For the US market; a chromed gas tube option would be very welcome. How about the whole rifle done in black chrome? Corrosion resistent, solvent resistent, and looks slick. Edited August 6, 2011 by my762buzz Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shades_of_grey 1,092 Posted August 6, 2011 Report Share Posted August 6, 2011 Hmmmm.. I could see having certain parts black chromed, (e.g. fcg, bolt, bolt carrier, gas block, gas piston, barrel?), but not the entire rifle. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Admiral Dennis Blair 1 Posted August 11, 2011 Report Share Posted August 11, 2011 I could be wrong but isn't WD40 just a solvent and not a lubricant? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
my762buzz 141 Posted August 11, 2011 Report Share Posted August 11, 2011 I could be wrong but isn't WD40 just a solvent and not a lubricant? It definitely acts more like a solvent. It displaces water so it would be great for preventing rust in the bore until the bore can be properly cleaned. I seen WD 40 dry into a hard shellac after a few months. This would not be a good lubricant. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ermac 8 Posted August 13, 2011 Report Share Posted August 13, 2011 I clean my AK rifles after shooting M67 ammo like I would any gun. I haven't noticed any rust. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lone Eagle 839 Posted August 13, 2011 Report Share Posted August 13, 2011 I have several cases of the Yugo M67, and shoot it on a semi-regular basis in my SKS and my new Saiga AK toy. It's not near as corrosive as some of the post-war Polish I run in my Mosin, but it is still corrosive primed ammo. Most don't know Hoppe's #9 was designed for corrosive ammo. I keep a spray bottle in my range bag just for the hour trip home. I spray the barrel/chamber/gas system liberally and wrap the gun in an old sheet before placing it in the case. When I get home, I go to work cleaning the rifle(s). Ususally the spray-down has all the gunk loosened up real nice for me. Local sportsman shop keeps it in half-gallon jugs, so I can refill the bottle when needed. WD40 is a water displacer. The name means "Water Displacer, 40th Attempt". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WD-40 It was originally developed for the US Nuke Arsenal, but has gone worldwide. Also makes short work of stickers on most surfaces. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
my762buzz 141 Posted August 13, 2011 Report Share Posted August 13, 2011 I have several cases of the Yugo M67, and shoot it on a semi-regular basis in my SKS and my new Saiga AK toy. It's not near as corrosive as some of the post-war Polish I run in my Mosin, but it is still corrosive primed ammo. Most don't know Hoppe's #9 was designed for corrosive ammo. I keep a spray bottle in my range bag just for the hour trip home. I spray the barrel/chamber/gas system liberally and wrap the gun in an old sheet before placing it in the case. When I get home, I go to work cleaning the rifle(s). Ususally the spray-down has all the gunk loosened up real nice for me. Local sportsman shop keeps it in half-gallon jugs, so I can refill the bottle when needed. WD40 is a water displacer. The name means "Water Displacer, 40th Attempt". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WD-40 It was originally developed for the US Nuke Arsenal, but has gone worldwide. Also makes short work of stickers on most surfaces. Both WD40 and Hoppes are 90% or higher hydrocarbons according to their online MSDS WD 40 is cheaper for using it to simply preserve your barrel before cleaning. A quart of motor oil will do the same and is even cheaper at $2 to $3 a quart. Pesonally, I would get the motor oil. I have used break parts cleaner (careful with the outer rifle finish) to revove carbon fouling from barrels for years with perfect success. It is fairly cheap and works really well. I would use hot boiling water to remove salts if I were to shoot any corrosive ammo. Water is cheap as it gets. I use a foaming bore cleaner to remove copper smearing if needed and this is the most expensive thing I use once in a while. http://www.hoppes.com/msds/Hoppes9/MSDS_Tri-Pac_No_%209_Solvent-Liquid_Revision_1-3.pdf http://www.wd40company.com/files/pdf/msds-wd494716385.pdf Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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