gregomega 929 Posted August 16, 2011 Report Share Posted August 16, 2011 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
smartbomb 133 Posted August 16, 2011 Report Share Posted August 16, 2011 saiga 9 is 9X53R which would be an interesting beast. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Atlantic Firearms.com 170 Posted August 17, 2011 Report Share Posted August 17, 2011 If it is done with quailty production components you will have $500 or over just in parts not including build & finish process, also add in 11% FET and on top of that a profit margin for the builder. , You will not see 9mm AK rifles in production for $500 bucks. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
6500rpm 670 Posted August 17, 2011 Report Share Posted August 17, 2011 I see another "Sons of Guns" build in the making....C'mon Will, Pony Up. smartbom and Armor, if you have the resources, and or, are hanging with Ghilliebear, I have no doubt you can make it happen. Price point is going to be tough. I guess if you can manufacture your trunion it opens up a lot more options for a pistol or carbine barrel choice. good luck Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Atlantic Firearms.com 170 Posted August 17, 2011 Report Share Posted August 17, 2011 We already had Red Jacket built 2 sample AK 9mm units several years ago but they would not run reliably with all 9mm ammo and were a bit quirky. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HART1 92 Posted August 17, 2011 Report Share Posted August 17, 2011 (edited) I see another "Sons of Guns" build in the making....C'mon Will, Pony Up. smartbom and Armor, if you have the resources, and or, are hanging with Ghilliebear, I have no doubt you can make it happen. Price point is going to be tough. I guess if you can manufacture your trunion it opens up a lot more options for a pistol or carbine barrel choice. good luck I don't really hang with Gilliebear, or build any of my HK designs anymore. "Hollywood Gilliebear" did the videos of a couple of my prototypes though. After the whole thing with Jose Diaz, I lost all interest in HK's. I changed my screen name to ARMOR and moved on. The AK people are much more layed back and let me curse on the forum. My kinda people!!!! I still look at some of the old videos of my inventions from time to time. It reminds me of all the money I pissed away. Live and learn. I do hope to include a 9mm AK to my collection in the future though. Edited August 17, 2011 by ARMOR Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HART1 92 Posted August 17, 2011 Report Share Posted August 17, 2011 We already had Red Jacket built 2 sample AK 9mm units several years ago but they would not run reliably with all 9mm ammo and were a bit quirky. I found pics of one of them while doing research. I think it was 2006? With the resources Red Jacket has now, maybe the 3rd time will be the charm? If they even have time for such a project. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BuffetDestroyer 969 Posted August 17, 2011 Report Share Posted August 17, 2011 SMARTBOMB >>>If you can build the 9mm AK's that cheap and they actually will work reliably with all 9MM ammo please contact our office we want to buy some from you !!! funny you should say that. i have been (2nd amaen was giving advice) on cad designs to develop a 9mm blowback bolt and trunnion similar to a bizon/vityaz. i have gotten side tracked but have the models about 90% complete. the idea is to design the bolt/trunnion with ease of manufacturing in mind to keep cost low. i didnt realize there was a huge market or i would be staying up late at night cranking this out. in my head i calced the parts cost as this bolt $50 trunnion $50 bent recvr $35 barrel $50 tapco g2 $20 furniture $50 ati mp5 mags $15 now economies of scale for a "real" production run could possibly trim %20 off these cost but be offset by labor. If you pull this off, you can easily sell them for $700 at the dealer level, $600 distributor. Your cost of putting one of these together is far less than what it would cost me for just one or two of your parts... Just a virgin barrel for an AR in 9mm runs between $150-$250 which is what you have for the whole project (Lichtenberg directs people to buy surplus Sten or Suomi's and modding them to fit with a lathe, but they still cost more than $75-$85 if you can find them due to a lack of parts kits being imported with barrels). Again, if you pull this off, you will definitely make a lot of money if you can build them for $216 plus labor. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
smartbomb 133 Posted August 18, 2011 Report Share Posted August 18, 2011 (edited) the $216 is a hypothetical cost. the key parts, (receiver, g2, furniture, barrel) i have some reasonable pricing on. the bolt and trunnion are guesses. my cad models are being drawn with extreme ease of construction in mind. i've looked at some bizon images to get a decent idea how the russians built them and then tried to simplify them. once i get a complete 3d model i will see my local machinist to cut a few on the cnc. i have looked at almost every build on the www. i do not want to modify an existing bolt/carrier/trunnion even tho there are many superb builds doing just that. my interest was purely to build myself a blowback 9mm (started as a 762x25 until ammo dried up)and did not even consider mass market. this is my concept (someone elses build) here is an early model of the bolt i was working on Edited August 18, 2011 by smartbomb 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HART1 92 Posted August 18, 2011 Report Share Posted August 18, 2011 (edited) the $216 is a hypothetical cost. the key parts, (receiver, g2, furniture, barrel) i have some reasonable pricing on. the bolt and trunnion are guesses. my cad models are being drawn with extreme ease of construction in mind. i've looked at some bizon images to get a decent idea how the russians built them and then tried to simplify them. once i get a complete 3d model i will see my local machinist to cut a few on the cnc. i have looked at almost every build on the www. i do not want to modify an existing bolt/carrier/trunnion even tho there are many superb builds doing just that. my interest was purely to build myself a blowback 9mm (started as a 762x25 until ammo dried up)and did not even consider mass market. this is my concept (someone elses build) here is an early model of the bolt i was working on I like that carrier. What about your extractor though? Edited August 18, 2011 by ARMOR Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BuffetDestroyer 969 Posted August 19, 2011 Report Share Posted August 19, 2011 the $216 is a hypothetical cost. the key parts, (receiver, g2, furniture, barrel) i have some reasonable pricing on. the bolt and trunnion are guesses. my cad models are being drawn with extreme ease of construction in mind. i've looked at some bizon images to get a decent idea how the russians built them and then tried to simplify them. once i get a complete 3d model i will see my local machinist to cut a few on the cnc. i have looked at almost every build on the www. i do not want to modify an existing bolt/carrier/trunnion even tho there are many superb builds doing just that. my interest was purely to build myself a blowback 9mm (started as a 762x25 until ammo dried up)and did not even consider mass market. this is my concept (someone elses build) here is an early model of the bolt i was working on +1 on the competed rifle! You could easily sell those for $700 even with a fixed stock! The only other game in that price range is the Beretta Carbine. When you get into the dedicated 9mm AR's or the MP5 style stuff, you are in the $1000 to 1300 range. The 7.62x25 is something I wouldn't give up on. There will be more ammo in country by the end of the year. From what I understand, there are warehouses of that stuff all over the eastern bloc countries. If the 9mm is the only route you go, I think you will definitely have a good business and you already have one of the largest distributors waiting for you to send them rifles! I love this forum! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HART1 92 Posted August 23, 2011 Report Share Posted August 23, 2011 A little help with your carrier design. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BuffetDestroyer 969 Posted August 23, 2011 Report Share Posted August 23, 2011 If you are doing a straight blow-back, then it would be awesome to have a rail where the non-functioning gas tube would be to allow dot sights. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
6500rpm 670 Posted August 23, 2011 Report Share Posted August 23, 2011 ARMOR, that's unique to anything I've seen posted. Most retained the original bolt welded to the carrier and I don't remember seeing a lower carrier profile like yours. I'm betting your design still allows easy service of the extractor and firing pin? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HART1 92 Posted August 23, 2011 Report Share Posted August 23, 2011 (edited) ARMOR, that's unique to anything I've seen posted. Most retained the original bolt welded to the carrier and I don't remember seeing a lower carrier profile like yours. I'm betting your design still allows easy service of the extractor and firing pin? That pic is from a true Bizon, but my carrier is almost identical to it. Edited August 23, 2011 by ARMOR Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MH12194 7 Posted September 5, 2011 Report Share Posted September 5, 2011 I was thinking about making a Vityaz SN clone for some time. Ever since I saw one I wanted one. But seeing as cost is a factor don't see myself getting one any time soon. Is there a way to order the magazines from the factory? For that matter can you order the mag release as well? It doesn't seem like it would be that hard to do. Make a vityaz clone. The market for a 9mm ak is huge. If there was only a way to get the price point down they would sell like crazy. Hell even an AK pistol in 9mm would sell like crazy. Maybe use a soumi barrel, H&K magazines, fashion a magwell, blowback bolt (which are already out there for soumi ak builds), some welding and fitting. Maybe something will come of the 9mm AK one day? If I had the time or shop or tools I'd take a stab at it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HART1 92 Posted September 6, 2011 Report Share Posted September 6, 2011 (edited) I think a 9mm SD/AK would be cool. I though this rough idea together in about 10 minutes. Needed to slide the magwell back in the pic, but you get the general idea Edited September 6, 2011 by ARMOR Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HART1 92 Posted September 6, 2011 Report Share Posted September 6, 2011 This was another crossbreed idea I had. . Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HART1 92 Posted September 6, 2011 Report Share Posted September 6, 2011 I just had a stroke of insanity... a 9mm ak that uses glock mags! Now I need money and the crazy bastards to do it! <.< Think I could Get tony to do it? A pistol like this that took Glock mags? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vampire847 9 Posted September 10, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 10, 2011 Yes armor...that is awesome btw.. and I see a hinge for a stock! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
smartbomb 133 Posted September 10, 2011 Report Share Posted September 10, 2011 (edited) armor thats a good shot of a bizon bolt. i have a few but not from that angle. sounds like you are on the way. if my crazy ass summer would ever settle down i could finish the models and get my cnc guy to cut me some prototypes. no light at the end of the tunnel yet and it looks like late october before i can even think about getting back to it. i am heading back to nigeria to work for a few weeks and wondering if my "host" can secure me a bizon example from his sources. would be nice if i could bring back a carrier and trunnion/barrel. what i have found tho, mp5 mags are very close dimensionally to vityaz mags. there are several sources and the prices are reasonable. Edited September 10, 2011 by smartbomb Quote Link to post Share on other sites
2ndAmendican 23 Posted September 16, 2011 Report Share Posted September 16, 2011 Armor, I like that!!! Is that one of yours, or just a pic from the web? If it's yours, I'd love to see/hear more about it. Looks like an HK grip/trigger guard? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HART1 92 Posted September 18, 2011 Report Share Posted September 18, 2011 Armor, I like that!!! Is that one of yours, or just a pic from the web? If it's yours, I'd love to see/hear more about it. Looks like an HK grip/trigger guard? No, It's a "Master FLG". Only 20 were made Quote Link to post Share on other sites
2ndAmendican 23 Posted September 22, 2011 Report Share Posted September 22, 2011 Master FLG, huh? Very interesting weapon. Thanks for the info. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
2ndAmendican 23 Posted September 22, 2011 Report Share Posted September 22, 2011 On the 9mm front, I was looking at changing the barrel on my blowback 7.62x25 pistol build, and running 9mm in the same PPS43 mags. Seems to "feed" (with my thumb pushing the rounds) ok from the left side, but not the right with the 9mm FMJ. Not sure why. It is almost completely locked up. Tried again with x25 to make sure it wasn't a mag issue, and it fed smoothly from both sides. I could have sworn that others have used the PPS43 mags with 9mm? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
2ndAmendican 23 Posted September 24, 2011 Report Share Posted September 24, 2011 After doing a little research, I think the PPS43 mags will be fine with 9mm. The recoil spring /weight of the bolt will strip the rounds from the mag WAY better than my thumb. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HART1 92 Posted September 30, 2011 Report Share Posted September 30, 2011 (edited) On the 9mm front, I was looking at changing the barrel on my blowback 7.62x25 pistol build, and running 9mm in the same PPS43 mags. Seems to "feed" (with my thumb pushing the rounds) ok from the left side, but not the right with the 9mm FMJ. Not sure why. It is almost completely locked up. Tried again with x25 to make sure it wasn't a mag issue, and it fed smoothly from both sides. I could have sworn that others have used the PPS43 mags with 9mm? Yes, azhonkey made a multical AK that took the 43 mag and would fire TOK and 9mm ammo. The barrels were changed depending on what caliber was being fired with an uzi style barrel setup Edited September 30, 2011 by ARMOR Quote Link to post Share on other sites
2ndAmendican 23 Posted October 1, 2011 Report Share Posted October 1, 2011 Azhonkey is a building God!!! I've always loved his switch barrel setup. Hell even the carrying case added to the overall cool factor. Over on Gunco there was one guy that became a bit of a stalker trying to buy it, or pay him to build another, IIRC. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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