SAIGA 308 AND 7.62x39

[rick-16 0]

GONE

Edited September 23, 2005 by rick-16

[Jofus 0]

Them's right perty rifles man! What'd you use for the brakes?

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

Those turned out awesome man! Evil twins. I guess I'l be first and ask how hard was it to get the G3 mag to work, does it feed reliably, and how many rounds does it hold? I've been thinking about getting a .308 but the mag problem has kept me away. That looks cool and I can get those for 5 bucks each.

[okie shooter 0]

Yes more information on the mag conversion, what you had to do and is it a g-3 steel or alloy? I've got twenty five alloy ones(had to buy that many at a show to get the price break), would be glad to convert one or two or more to use on the saiga.(yes I do have a CETME too)

Edited July 20, 2005 by okie shooter

[TWGLADF 0]

10 SAIGA 308'S??????????

 

DAMN!

 

[G O B 3,516]

Rick, As usual your work is impecable!

 

G O B

[BattleRifleG3 16]

Sorry if this has been asked before, but are you a professional gunsmith or just a very skilled, equipped, and experienced individual like yet so far beyond ourselves?

[BattleRifleG3 16]

Hmm, perhaps you can answer a 308 AK question that's been going around a bit. It's been argued that a standard AKM could take 308 since the pressures (50ksi for 7.62 NATO and 45ksi for 7.62 Soviet) are close and the bolts in 308 rifles, both Galil and M1, have lugs the same size as standard AKMs. I argued otherwise, that a.) the area of the cartridger base is larger, resulting in a higher backward force for the same pressure, and b.) just because the bolts are the same size doesn't mean their strength is equal. They still argued that the friction from the case due to internal pressure reduced the bolt force to the same levels as the tapered X39.

 

My current theory is that IF they're right, the S-308 has the three lug barrel in order to take the much hotter 308 Win, and that anything based on the AKM bolt would only be able to take 7.62 NATO. This would explain why the only AKs in 308 made for the American market are the 3 lugged ones, because we use the hotter 308 and would blow ourselves up using it in a rifle that could only take the X51.

Do you know anything about the comparative strengths of different AK bolts that would answer this?

 

This next thought I hope you can take with the deepest respect to your incredible experience... I've avoided any trunion mods of the S-308 because it would shave the metal thinner closer to the 3rd locking lug, possibly weakening it dangerously. You and some others have done the trunion mods with no trouble, but I would still want to see a proper stress analysis before doing it and recommending it. If it were safe, I'd still think it only for those experienced with machining and not for the dremel-equipped WECSOGer. My thought here is that IF the 2 lug bolt is good for the X51 Nato and the 3 lug bolt is necessary for 308 Win, folks who put thousands of rounds through their trunion modded S-308s would naturally do so with the more affordable surplus X51 and don't in fact test the rifle to its original capacity. If that were the case, these success stories of trunion modification do in fact weaken the rifle, and are successful only because the rifle is used far below its original specifications.

 

Please take this not as nay-saying but calling to attention details that have not been discussed before. I'm not sure what your education may be in addition to your vast gunsmithing experience, but my undergraduate engineering taught me that one has always to operate with factors of safety, and that just because something works doesn't mean it's safe. In the one gun project where I did have to push safety margins (it was an expendable barrel test, where the barrel was gradually shortened to nothing), I continually checked for yielding.

 

For the third time, please take this with the utmost respect, just that I'm concerned that all facts and potential dangers about such work be discussed and understood. I'm hoping that in fact you've gone over these things already and have answers for the rest of us.

 

Whatever the case may be, that's great work you have!