drhobo 4 Posted August 24, 2011 Report Share Posted August 24, 2011 Had my first trip to the range on Sunday, and in between severe thunderstorms I put about 100 rounds through my S12 (almost all slugs). It worked like a charm, not a single feed or ejection problem, even with the surefire 8 and 12 rounders. I was surprised as the only thing I did to it out of the box was strip and clean it about a dozen times. With slugs I was hitting a 12" diameter target about 50% of the time from 50 yards. (I am very new to shooting and not a good shot. This is actually the first gun I have owned). My big complaint is the sights, I had a lot of trouble with how close together they are compared to the overall length (I know there is a proper term for what I am describing but it escapes me). I know there are abundant options; the two that i am considering are top rail (chaos extended) and pop up sights, or just one of the screw on barrel clamping front sights. What do people see as the pros and cons of each option? Perhaps I am just being a novice but the concerns that come to mind are that with the pop ups on the rail, your sight line is even further above the plane of the barrel. Does this make zeroing the sight more difficult? For the clamp on front sight, I would expect that the existing front bead would block line of sight. Would this need to be filed down? Other observations: This is the most left handed friendly gun I have fired. I have shot with a number of friends and family, and nothing seemed as comfortable to operate as a lefty. (In particular, my friend's AR-15 ejecting brass back at my face was unpleasant). The $30 Limbsaver slip on pad was definitely worth the money. I was using mostly centurion slugs, which fouled everything up more than expected. In particular a lot of lead into the gas system, I had to bump the puck out using a dowel rod and a shoe. I see Remington slugs mentioned in high regard in other threads, would those help with the mess? I am wondering if my S12 is over gassed right out of the box. Shooting from a kneeling position, spent shells were being tossed 5-6 feet, which seemed a bit excessive. It appears to be a 3 port. Would an autoplug help, or would an overgassed situation just ruin the autoplug? I appreciate any advice offered. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
yooper14.5 84 Posted August 24, 2011 Report Share Posted August 24, 2011 its not overgassed. Run it with federal bulk and find out if its undergassed or not. centurion slugs are crappy, get remington slugs and you won't get that lead fouling. I have no experience with other sights to comment. Get a .22 and practice your accuracy. have fun with your gun, these things are awesome weapons. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
evlblkwpnz 3,418 Posted August 24, 2011 Report Share Posted August 24, 2011 (edited) Had my first trip to the range on Sunday, and in between severe thunderstorms I put about 100 rounds through my S12 (almost all slugs). It worked like a charm, not a single feed or ejection problem, even with the surefire 8 and 12 rounders. I was surprised as the only thing I did to it out of the box was strip and clean it about a dozen times. With slugs I was hitting a 12" diameter target about 50% of the time from 50 yards. (I am very new to shooting and not a good shot. This is actually the first gun I have owned). My big complaint is the sights, I had a lot of trouble with how close together they are compared to the overall length (I know there is a proper term for what I am describing but it escapes me)sight radius. I know there are abundant options; the two that i am considering are top rail (chaos extended) and pop up sights, or just one of the screw on barrel clamping front sights. What do people see as the pros and cons of each option? Perhaps I am just being a novice but the concerns that come to mind are that with the pop ups on the rail, your sight line is even further above the plane of the barrel. Does this make zeroing the sight more difficult? For the clamp on front sight, I would expect that the existing front bead would block line of sight. Would this need to be filed down?People seem to be fond of the HK weld-on sights. I never look at the sights. Shoot the weapon enough to know where it shoots at different distances (up to 40 yards) without looking at the sights Other observations: This is the most left handed friendly gun I have fired. I have shot with a number of friends and family, and nothing seemed as comfortable to operate as a lefty. (In particular, my friend's AR-15 ejecting brass back at my face was unpleasant). The $30 Limbsaver slip on pad was definitely worth the money. I was using mostly centurion slugs, which fouled everything up more than expected. In particular a lot of lead into the gas system, I had to bump the puck out using a dowel rod and a shoe. I see Remington slugs mentioned in high regard in other threads, would those help with the mess? I am wondering if my S12 is over gassed right out of the box. Shooting from a kneeling position, spent shells were being tossed 5-6 feet, which seemed a bit excessive. It appears to be a 3 port. Would an autoplug help, or would an overgassed situation just ruin the autoplug? It is doubtful that your weapon is overgassed. I have owned 6- Saiga 12s and they all needed gas. Try it with an MD-20 and some Federal Multi-purpose.... I appreciate any advice offered. Welcome aboard! Edited August 24, 2011 by evlblkwpnz 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
drhobo 4 Posted August 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 24, 2011 (edited) I did go through 20 rounds of Remington walmart bulk bird shot without issue, so i doubt its undergassed. Perhaps its just fine then. As I was sitting typing my original post, my cat decided to investigate this strange thing on the bed, so I slipped an empty mag in behind him and clicked a picture. Edited August 24, 2011 by drhobo Quote Link to post Share on other sites
evlblkwpnz 3,418 Posted August 24, 2011 Report Share Posted August 24, 2011 It will change when you convert it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Paulyski 2,227 Posted August 24, 2011 Report Share Posted August 24, 2011 I am wondering if my S12 is over gassed right out of the box. Shooting from a kneeling position, spent shells were being tossed 5-6 feet, which seemed a bit excessive. It appears to be a 3 port. Would an autoplug help, or would an overgassed situation just ruin the autoplug? I appreciate any advice offered. From your description, it sounds like the factory screwed up & shipped a good one. They've been doing that more often lately. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
evlblkwpnz 3,418 Posted August 24, 2011 Report Share Posted August 24, 2011 I am wondering if my S12 is over gassed right out of the box. Shooting from a kneeling position, spent shells were being tossed 5-6 feet, which seemed a bit excessive. It appears to be a 3 port. Would an autoplug help, or would an overgassed situation just ruin the autoplug? I appreciate any advice offered. From your description, it sounds like the factory screwed up & shipped a good one. They've been doing that more often lately. +1 The last 109 I bought ran great straight out of the box with the factory mag and bulk birdshot (2009 model). I was in shock for a minute However, it was a different story after it was converted. It required resistance reduction and a 4th port at the factory size. Sometimes I wonder if there is someone from Izhmash keeping tabs on this forum and making slight adjustments to their specs to attempt to alleviate minor issues. The feedramp on my '09 model had 2x the amount of beveled surface than all of my '08 models. The action seemed a bit smoother too. Just a small observation.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Paulyski 2,227 Posted August 24, 2011 Report Share Posted August 24, 2011 Sometimes I wonder if there is someone from Izhmash keeping tabs on this forum and making slight adjustments to their specs to attempt to alleviate minor issues. The feedramp on my '09 model had 2x the amount of beveled surface than all of my '08 models. The action seemed a bit smoother too. Just a small observation.... Yes. Definitely. Over on guns.ru they reference this forum all the time & Izmash reps monitor it. Videos of early LRBHOs here are what lead to development of it there. Some of us over here do the same with their site over there. The stumbling block is good translation. I've gotten some info in the form of PDFs from them that I had to have a Russian friend translate for me because I can't translate it electronically. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
evlblkwpnz 3,418 Posted August 24, 2011 Report Share Posted August 24, 2011 Sometimes I wonder if there is someone from Izhmash keeping tabs on this forum and making slight adjustments to their specs to attempt to alleviate minor issues. The feedramp on my '09 model had 2x the amount of beveled surface than all of my '08 models. The action seemed a bit smoother too. Just a small observation.... Yes. Definitely. Over on guns.ru they reference this forum all the time & Izmash reps monitor it. Videos of early LRBHOs here are what lead to development of it there. Some of us over here do the same with their site over there. The stumbling block is good translation. I've gotten some info in the form of PDFs from them that I had to have a Russian friend translate for me because I can't translate it electronically. It's good to know we are making some sort of positive impact on the platform. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
VladTepes 160 Posted August 24, 2011 Report Share Posted August 24, 2011 I did go through 20 rounds of Remington walmart bulk bird shot without issue, so i doubt its undergassed. Perhaps its just fine then. As I was sitting typing my original post, my cat decided to investigate this strange thing on the bed, so I slipped an empty mag in behind him and clicked a picture. do you own a baby ocelot.. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
fauxknight 30 Posted August 24, 2011 Report Share Posted August 24, 2011 (edited) With slugs I was hitting a 12" diameter target about 50% of the time from 50 yards. (I am very new to shooting and not a good shot. This is actually the first gun I have owned). A little breathing practice and trigger control and you should be at 100% on a target that sized at 50 yards. See below. My big complaint is the sights, I had a lot of trouble with how close together they are compared to the overall length (I know there is a proper term for what I am describing but it escapes me). Sight radius. The longer your sight radius the smaller degree of variation you get when it looks like your shot is lined up. I know there are abundant options; the two that i am considering are top rail (chaos extended) and pop up sights, or just one of the screw on barrel clamping front sights. What do people see as the pros and cons of each option? Find what you are comfortable with for the style of shooting you plan on using your Saiga for and use that. I have the pop ups as a backup, but use a HWS as primary. I prefer peephole style sights, which works great on a bolt action rifle, but not soo much on a shotgun that you want fast target aquisition with. Cost and appearance can also be a major factor as well. A clamp on front sight will be cheap and make your gun look more like a standard AK, where as an extended rail with pop ups will cost a lot more and lean more towards an AR style. The $30 Limbsaver slip on pad was definitely worth the money. Yeah, shotgun recoil isn't soo bad, until you start firing 100 rounds a pop. I was using mostly centurion slugs, which fouled everything up more than expected. In particular a lot of lead into the gas system, I had to bump the puck out using a dowel rod and a shoe. I see Remington slugs mentioned in high regard in other threads, would those help with the mess? I've heard this of Centurion slugs, but I'm still ordering a case this week due to their cost. Remingtons are definately all around nice slugs, but the cheapest I know that you can get them for is $9/15 pack at Wallmart. Any good amount of shooting is going to require you to use the same method to get the puck out. I am wondering if my S12 is over gassed right out of the box. Shooting from a kneeling position, spent shells were being tossed 5-6 feet, which seemed a bit excessive. It appears to be a 3 port. Would an autoplug help, or would an overgassed situation just ruin the autoplug? That sounds perfect, just make sure you were on the right setting. Get an autoplug if you plan on mixing loads or changing frequently from high to low brass and back again. If you want finer tuning of the gas system for long runs of one shell type then get an MD Arms V plug. Neither is necessary though as long as your system is running fine. 20 slugs (mix of Remington and Winchester) at 50 yards, mostly standing, tired, and with a sore shoulder. In otherwords terrible shooting, but still showing that you should be able to hit that 12" target close to 100%: Edited August 24, 2011 by fauxknight Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tonnere 3 Posted August 24, 2011 Report Share Posted August 24, 2011 gorgeous cat, didn't even notice the Saiga, lol Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ShadowFire 220 Posted August 24, 2011 Report Share Posted August 24, 2011 Yeah evlblkpwnz is right, the finickiness can change when you convert it (despite that, if it's legal in your area, you should really do it.) I had to remove the gas block on mine and file down the extra metal in the gas block that blocked two ports. (Search here or on google for FTE Mod topic, it SHOULD be stickied.) After that, it cycled federal with the stock recoil spring, booster puck and autoplug. It IS my favorite shotgun, period, and I'm not even done modding it yet, but I'm close. What evlblkpwnz is referring to is known as Point Shooting. With a shotgun it's a lot easier to do than to learn to do it with a firearm that by default shoots a single projectile instead of firing shot. The sight radius on mine has never really been an issue for me personally. Because I tend to like to shoot at closer ranges instead of say 45 yards, the sight radius for me is perfect. Like was mentioned by evlblkpwnz, HK front sights are quite popular. If one could dial in an A2 style AR rear sight with an HK sight, you would have quite a bit more precision with your shotgun. They have them that attach to a rail but it may be a bit too tall to line up with the HK front sight. It would be interesting to investigate it though. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mullet Man 2,114 Posted August 24, 2011 Report Share Posted August 24, 2011 http://www.dinzagarms.com/saiga_12/fsbs12.html That FSB helps tremendously with sight radius and consistent accuracy for distance shooting, as well as give adjustability. No need for all the extra weight of rails and bells and whistles, K.I.S.S. This Sunday, i plan on getting some POI video of 3 shot groups, from 70yds using Rem Sluggers and Win Super X 2-3/4" slugs. I just sighted mine in at 70yds the other day and shes putting them in there tight, if i do my job. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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