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Saiga Modification skill level rating scale


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With all the various aftermarket mod kits available for the saiga that requires various different skill levels, I see the need for a skill level rating scale like what they have for model rockets. I propose that this scale be voluntary applied by buisness members. This will help prevent NOOBE customers from getting in over their head on mods and thus complaining needlessly on the forum.

 

My proposed scale:

 

Level I (beginner)= for mods that do not change the form of fit of the saiga. Example would be the magazines, gunfixer plug, auto plug, ect.

 

Level II (Entry level)= for mods that require cutting or drilling into the saiga and moderate fitting. Example would be saiga conversion kits, FCG, Trigger group mods,stocks, ect

 

Level III (Experianced level)= for mods that require cutting, drilling, and tapping into the saiga and requires properly positioning parts. Example would be the JT MAGWELL, threading the barrel for muzzle attachment, and similar mods that fit this criteria.

 

Level IV (Expert)= for mods that require drilling, cutting, or grinding multiple interfacing parts and requires timing. Example would be the Cadiz LRBHO device and similar mods that fit this criteria.

 

In addition to this scale, I recommend adding a clause: "Non mechanically inclined or non gunsmiths should first achieve a successful live fire before proceding to the next level of difficulty."

 

I am convinced that if buisness members of this forum would volunarily adopt this or similar scale, they will recieve fewer complaints and even increased buisness. Imagine if someone knew to the community who never even shot a saiga tried to install a magwell or a LRBHO device immediatly after taking a OEM saiga out of the box. This scale would send a "Crawl, Walk, Run" message to new members and they would be discouraged to bite off more than they can chew.

 

Any thoughts?

Edited by Crusader
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Fuck'em, people should know their DIY limits, and have the right tools for the job before they start a DIY project.

Most of the the Bubba gunsmiths aren't going to even notice such warnings, nor take heed and will likely over estimate their skills.

 

Really though, it ain't a bad idea.

But, I don't think the vendors need to hold any hands, nor expand any potential liability bullshit because they didn't provide enough cautionary information.

Egads! I can hear it now, the bitching about how it was harder than listed.

 

Further, I see way more people who are leery of performing their own conversion work, who'd rather not risk Bubba'ing their new firearm.

Plenty choose to have it done by a professional, many do as I did when first getting ready to convert, they ask questions, watch videos and only then go for it.

Edited by ChileRelleno
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if there is a detailed picture step-by- step turotial with instructions to do things, I will be able do it. I would have to review it many, many times to understand what happens in each step, but it's doable for me. I would never attempted a pistol grip conversion without the aide of Moe Zambeak thread on how to go about doing that. at the time I didn't have high speed internet, but dial up at 28.8 BPS with windows 98, yeah I was operating in the last century :), so I couldn't review his video. but the pictures he posted with detailed instruction was of tremendous help.

Edited by Matthew Hopkins
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Think about the model rocket hobby. What if Estes had no rating scale. Your first rocket could unintentionally be a Saturn V verses a Alpha rocket. I agree that there should be no liabilty and no one needs their hands held, but a rating scale would increase the chances that they will seek to increase their skill level before taking on too much.

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People already put disclaimers like 'installation best performed by qualified gunsmith' and whatnot. If you buy stuff and don't know what you're getting into (because you didn't do you homework), and you fuck your shit up, that's your own problem.

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My first Saiga is my experiemenal one....installing the Russian magwell was probably the most invasive thing I've done, but I had no fear cutting up my receiver. The worst that can happen is I throw it away and buy a new gun. Seems ridiculous, but isn't a big deal considering what I do for a living, there are no screw ups allowed.

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That's tough crusader.

Reason being, because all men are NOT created equal.

 

What's easy for one may be over the head of another, & those who don't know, don't know they don't know.

 

They assume they're just as capable as the next guy.

Until they find they've royally screwed the pooch.

Trust me on that one.

I deal with the most intricate mod that's one of the most easily screwed up & get to see the results at times.

 

If we say something that was child's play for us is easy, then we're accused of misrepresentation when someone screws up.

 

If we say something is easily screwed up & you may ruin your weapon, or even make it unsafe to fire, we're accused of trying to drum up business through scare tactics.

 

People should just know their limitations.

That's easier said than admitted to for those with more limitations that others though.

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That's tough crusader.

Reason being, because all men are NOT created equal.

 

What's easy for one may be over the head of another, & those who don't know, don't know they don't know.

 

They assume they're just as capable as the next guy.

Until they find they've royally screwed the pooch.

Trust me on that one.

I deal with the most intricate mod that's one of the most easily screwed up & get to see the results at times.

 

If we say something that was child's play for us is easy, then we're accused of misrepresentation when someone screws up.

 

If we say something is easily screwed up & you may ruin your weapon, or even make it unsafe to fire, we're accused of trying to drum up business through scare tactics.

 

People should just know their limitations.

That's easier said than admitted to for those with more limitations that others though.

Great reply from a buisness Member. I attempted to add some metrics to each definition level suchs as cutting or drilling a specified number of parts, a definition that is less subjective. However, your point is well taken. Perhaps, we really can't equate this hobby to model rockets.

Edited by Crusader
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ok, I just finished my conversion. I reviewed videos, read instructions, asked questions (and still ask more). But I've had a great deal of past mechanical experience. I've rebuilt engines, worked as a robotics tech in a high production industry, and as a R&D tech in a steel mill. I have a definite idea of what my skill level is.

 

For instance, I wouldn't try to sister a floor cross member if one broke in my house. I'd call my buddy who knows how to do that.

 

I think most people know their limits. Those that don't will always screw up, get mad about it, and then either give up or get help. The reasonably intelligent among us will do their homework BEFORE making the decision to do the work.

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I know people who never made it through high school, but have more mechanical apptitude than most on the planet. I also know Phd's that I would not trust to open a bottle of kecthup. Like Pauley said

those who don't know, don't know they don't know.

 

Lets face it, if you do not have this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySpOuaYwLQU

 

 

 

Let the ones who do have it, convert or modify your weapons.............

Edited by Dad2142Dad
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Some people may very well start off with a level 4 mod and be just fine, but consider someone with no mechanical experiance. A rating system could give them a heads up as well as guide them through a skilled progression. I speak from experiance. I got the Cadiz LRBHO device to work perfectly not only because of Tom's advice and Bridis's video, but also because of my experiance with the JT MAGWELL. I would not have had the aplitude to successfully complete the JT MAGWELL Mod without the experiance of the FCG and stock conversion. Therefore, for me, each project increased my competance which enabled me to successfully tackle the next level of difficulty. Just like the Model rocket hobby. As with that hobby, I am sure that some could start off with the Saturn V and ignore the rating scale all together. Its just a guide to be used by those who feel they need it and ignored by those who don't need it.

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I look at it this way. If it cost me a $100 and needs a conversion I know nothing about, ill try it. Worst case im out a $100. On the other hand if it cost me several hundred dollars or more im not about to atempt to Fuck it up. Ill let the pros do it right the first time.

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I have never had anyone ever tighten a screw down on a Tromix handguard tight enough to break one and I have sold about a 1000 of them . But just recently a "qualified gunsmith" was able to pull off that feat. Oh...and it gets better. After he broke the first one, he installed his second one and did the same thing to it.

 

Of course I warrantied them both and was forced to quit selling them until we are able to redesign it so the "qualified gunsmiths" that are running businesses can actually install them without breaking them. About a 1000 other Joe Blows with no gunsmithing experience have never had a problem.

 

So....I don't think the rating system is going to work here since you have "regular" guys that can actually pull off some crazy ass cool shit. Like the guy that built his own one-off, from scratch, 44 Automag and redesigned it to run off gas operation. That my friends is a major feat for anyone. Then you have so-called "master gunsmiths" that fuck shit up right and left, admit nothing, deny everything, and make counter AAccusations.

 

Tony Rumore

Tromix

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