Hemi348 1 Posted August 31, 2011 Report Share Posted August 31, 2011 (edited) I was at the range yesterday with my 7.62x39 saiga and was noticing a huge lack of accuracy with the same SP ammunition I was using before I had converted the rifle. Frustrated I pulled out magazine, pulled my bullet guide out, and slapped my factory magazine in the rifle. Sure enough the rifle began to group again instead of the erratic patterns I was previously achieving. These results brought my hopes back up and I put my bullet guide back in for some further testing. I put one round into the magazine and then pulled the bolt back and let it fly. Without shooting the round I pulled it back out and looked it over. The round had a huge dent in the lead tip. I repeated this test multiple times with the same results. It seemed that the dents being put into the round was heavily effecting the accuracy of the rifle. Again, I took the bullet guide back out and retested with the factory magazine. I put one round into the magazine and let the bolt fly. You guessed it the lead tip was in fantastic shape. I even struggled to find any evidence that this round had been fed into a rifle. I repeated this test also and got very promising results. It appeared that the factory magazine does a better job lifting the round up into the chamber without hitting the ramp in the chamber face. After finishing up at the range I went back home and took a look at my Bulgarian AK's bullet guide. It was much longer than my bullet guide I had put on my saiga. The guide went so much deeper into the magwell than my saiga's as a matter of fact that it covered up half of the cut out section in the high cap magazines. Excited I ran and grabbed my inertia bullet puller and made two dummy SP rounds. Just as my previous two test I pulled the bolt back and let it fly. Just like the factory saiga magazines the bullet tip on both rounds were in great shape. With a deeper feed ramp it appears to allow the bullet tip to be lifted higher into the chamber just like the factory saiga magazines. When I finished up this test I went to modify my saiga's bullet guide to sit deeper into the magwell to mimic the bullet guide I have on my Bulgarian AK. I cut out a new hole into the bullet guide to allow the bullet guide to sit further into the magwell. After making sure the bolt would clear the guide I inserted the same high cap magazine that I was using on the range earlier. Just like before I left the bolt fly to chamber one of my dummy rounds. No more dent! I was jumping up and down with excitement! I repeated the test over and over and was kept getting more and more excited when the extracted rounds came out in good shape. I snapped a quick pic of my modified bullet guide so you guys might get a better idea of what I am talking about I still need to clean it up quite a bit. I am going to weld over the old hole and build up the back of the guide so it will sit flush with the chamber face. But as of right now I am pretty happy with my results. Edited August 31, 2011 by Hemi348 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
corbin 621 Posted August 31, 2011 Report Share Posted August 31, 2011 Good post. I need to go check my rifles for dented bullet tips now. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hemi348 1 Posted August 31, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 31, 2011 (edited) Thanks Corbin, I am not sure if my rifle is a fluke or is out of spec but, I would be very interested on how other members rifles feed soft and hollow points. On a side note FMJ tips are sharp enough to get passed the chamber face without being damaged while using the bullet guide before I modified it. Edited August 31, 2011 by Hemi348 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dust feeder 2 Posted August 31, 2011 Report Share Posted August 31, 2011 What bullet guide are u using? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hemi348 1 Posted August 31, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 31, 2011 What bullet guide are u using? I would rather not say. I do not want to call out anyone's product. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jswledhed 57 Posted August 31, 2011 Report Share Posted August 31, 2011 I installed a Dinzag bullet giude in my x39 and it would not feed hollow-point ammo. The tip of the round would dig right into the bullet guide. It did fine with FMJ and I suspect it would have done okay with SP, but I'm sure it would have deformed the tip significantly. I filed the upper edge of the bullet guide and it has been 100% reliable with both FMJ and HP. I have never shot any SP, though. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hemi348 1 Posted August 31, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 31, 2011 (edited) I installed a Dinzag bullet giude in my x39 and it would not feed hollow-point ammo. The tip of the round would dig right into the bullet guide. It did fine with FMJ and I suspect it would have done okay with SP, but I'm sure it would have deformed the tip significantly. I filed the upper edge of the bullet guide and it has been 100% reliable with both FMJ and HP. I have never shot any SP, though. On my rifle the bullet would get torn up on the chamber face not on the bullet guide. My rifle never jammed but accuracy was definitely effected. Regardless jswledhed's advice does help a lot in smoothing out the feeding process. Have you ever pulled an unfired round out of the chamber after you have fed it? I am curious if you get any type of deformation in your HP's. Edited August 31, 2011 by Hemi348 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rhodes1968 1,638 Posted September 1, 2011 Report Share Posted September 1, 2011 Dont see it mentioned but on SP rounds be sure no sharp edges contact the point as it feeds. A little grinding to take off that edge all thats required. If you see lead scrapings in the area thats whats happening. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
my762buzz 141 Posted September 1, 2011 Report Share Posted September 1, 2011 The first time I installed a bullet guide I quickly realized how installing closer to the mag increases the bullet rise. Its all geometry. Rounding and smoothing the front edge really helps prevent any tips catching. Picture below: Left frame - guide is barely into the well toward the mag. Right frame - guide is much deeper into the well. Strike point is indicated by the arrows. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hemi348 1 Posted September 2, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 2, 2011 my762buzz that is a great picture and definitely shows how a deeper bullet guide helps in terms of feeding expanding ammunition. IMHO if you are going to be using your saiga to hunt game, retaining the integrity of the tip is mandatory in order to ensure proper expansion into the target. After a bit of research it turns out that the Arsenal AK's come with a bullet guide that is much longer than the aftermarket guides available for saigas. I cannot find the post anymore but I believe it was post-apocalyptic who posted the picture. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
alliwantisapepsi 3 Posted September 2, 2011 Report Share Posted September 2, 2011 I wonder if I should do the same to mlne? After installing, I took it to the range, using a tapco mag i had some jams using yugo surplus. After a few mags it was feeding great. my guide sits flush only sticking out in the magwell maybe 1/32''. Should I reset it to stick out more? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
my762buzz 141 Posted September 2, 2011 Report Share Posted September 2, 2011 (edited) my762buzz that is a great picture and definitely shows how a deeper bullet guide helps in terms of feeding expanding ammunition. IMHO if you are going to be using your saiga to hunt game, retaining the integrity of the tip is mandatory in order to ensure proper expansion into the target. After a bit of research it turns out that the Arsenal AK's come with a bullet guide that is much longer than the aftermarket guides available for saigas. I cannot find the post anymore but I believe it was post-apocalyptic who posted the picture. Thanks By the way yes it was http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?/topic/58811-bullet-guide-installed-on-saiga-762x39/ I wonder if I should do the same to mlne? After installing, I took it to the range, using a tapco mag i had some jams using yugo surplus. After a few mags it was feeding great. my guide sits flush only sticking out in the magwell maybe 1/32''. Should I reset it to stick out more? Yes it wouldn't hurt to customize it. You can also make one out of a piece of steel with a file and a drill. I made a homemade one out of a saiga choke wrench handle. If I made a replacement, this time it would be longer. Edited September 2, 2011 by my762buzz Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bdub 6 Posted September 3, 2011 Report Share Posted September 3, 2011 Is there no US company that makes mag followers with the bump like on the saiga mags? Seems like it would help w/ 922r and make feeding issues almost non existent. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
my762buzz 141 Posted September 3, 2011 Report Share Posted September 3, 2011 Is there no US company that makes mag followers with the bump like on the saiga mags? Seems like it would help w/ 922r and make feeding issues almost non existent. The saiga mags have a higher feed lip to avoid a bullet guide. The follower is at the bottom of the ammo stack. Many do not want a plastic AK mag that is not steel lined like the bulgarian circle tens. No other mags are. If the place that manufactures the circle ten magazines began making some special edition ones with a feed lip about 3 mm higher, you would have a high quality mag that could feed perfect without a bullet guide. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bdub 6 Posted September 3, 2011 Report Share Posted September 3, 2011 I see, fee lip, not follower. Not sure what I was thinking. Is there no US company that makes mag followers with the bump like on the saiga mags? Seems like it would help w/ 922r and make feeding issues almost non existent. The saiga mags have a higher feed lip to avoid a bullet guide. The follower is at the bottom of the ammo stack. Many do not want a plastic AK mag that is not steel lined like the bulgarian circle tens. No other mags are. If the place that manufactures the circle ten magazines began making some special edition ones with a feed lip about 3 mm higher, you would have a high quality mag that could feed perfect without a bullet guide. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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