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The allure of Arsenal


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That is not all they are.

 

If you can do all the work that Arsenal does to the rifles in your back yard by "just converting it" id love to know a price. Can i get on the list?

 

The basic saiga sporter conversion is a complete different world than the Arsenal SGL series.

If you think you couldn't your saying they are losing money on every gun they turn out.

 

If you believe the classic AK was the end all for the AK platform then this is your go to. If you care to represent some of the aftermarket and don't care for tradition then you might be better off rolling your own.

 

All of the functional parts that a SGL represents are what your basic conversion has.

 

Trigger? the G2 is probably better.

Same bolt and bolt carrier?

Bullet guide is a easy add.

Same chrome lined barrel?

Conversion has a edge if user put on a match crown, and its been proven that other muzzle breaks can perform as good or better than the 74 style break for cheaper. Why add the extra length?

 

those are the only things that bullet knows. as far as the rest, theres loads of options for furnature. The popcicle stick grip was never one of my favorites thats for sure. Mike davidsons knockoff grip would be money well spent as a upgrade for $12.

 

I can understand if you wanted to get into a 100 series folder. I really can't argue that if you had to have a 100 series. But again its a traditionalist standpoint.

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Some folks just take it too deep in thinking. No one is saying a converted saiga is crap, or the quality of the firearm is here or there. The quality and features of the build ARE different.

 

Some people prefer one, some prefer the other. Hell some like both. I wouldnt dog on either one, but i get the feeling some people feel that way.

 

I have a home converted saiga and love it, I also have an SGL series and love it. The general quality in both them is wonderful, its a saiga of course. But there is a difference in both them. Bottom line.

 

That is not all they are.

 

If you can do all the work that Arsenal does to the rifles in your back yard by "just converting it" id love to know a price. Can i get on the list?

 

The basic saiga sporter conversion is a complete different world than the Arsenal SGL series.

If you think you couldn't your saying they are losing money on every gun they turn out.

 

My point is that the every day joe cant do the work arsenal does to the rifles. Its much more than just the average conversion. May it be resources or skills, either way.

Edited by Chevyman097
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I wouldnt dog on either one, but i get the feeling some people feel that way.

My bad if I'm going that far. I'm not trying to dog on aresenal. I think its great that people have the option to go out and buy a rifle with that style of build quality with features that meet the needs of many end users whether that be for collectability, estetics, or even in the case of the 100 series folder, function.

 

I personaly like to take a DIY approach. Its not for everyone and I understand that, but I certainly like to push people to try. How many people had second thoughts the first time taking a drill bit and grinder to a firearm? theres a taboo there. And having completed a basic conversion how many users here beam with pride at the work they have done and how it was easier than they thought?

 

I just don't like to hear that anything in stock form is perfect. I'm a habitual tinkerer, and nothing is done to me untill I've had my grubby little paws into it.

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I personaly like to take a DIY approach. Its not for everyone and I understand that, but I certainly like to push people to try. How many people had second thoughts the first time taking a drill bit and grinder to a firearm? theres a taboo there. And having completed a basic conversion how many users here beam with pride at the work they have done and how it was easier than they thought?

 

I just don't like to hear that anything in stock form is perfect. I'm a habitual tinkerer, and nothing is done to me untill I've had my grubby little paws into it.

 

+1, after my conversion Red Jacket had nothing on me! I did my conversion precisely how I wanted it, would expect anyone else to do the same.

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If you can do all the work that Arsenal does to the rifles in your back yard by "just converting it" id love to know a price. Can i get on the list?

 

The basic saiga sporter conversion is a complete different world than the Arsenal SGL series.

 

I think this has become the main selling point that Arsenal relies upon to market the SGL series.

 

You get all those new unissued tight fitting parts that would already cost quite a bit if you bought them on your own.

Then, they are fit properly and no holes to weld up.

I spent way too many hours just fitting a gas tube and handguard on my own so I can really appreciate the work already done in a reasonable price range.

This is probably why Atlantic Firearms is betting that their new saigas with the front ends already set up are going to be profitable.

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The model 2 we are offering is not meant to replace the Arsenal SGL 21 line but it is meant to offer our customers another AK option for the do it yourself guy or gal. Of course they are not offering the exact same options as the SGL rifles but we feel the model 2 is a step better than the basic IZ 132. The front end conversion work is the most expensive in parts and labor.

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It all comes down to what you want out of your rifle and HOW MUCH $ YOU HAVE TO SPEND. When I bought mine I could barely afford the $350. $800 was out of the question! And for $350 I had a fully competent rifle. When I had another $100 I added a fcg, pg and stock and had an even better rifle!

 

If u want the correct fsb, gb, 1000 meter rear sight leaf, cleaning rod, bayo lug, etc. Then the arsenal is without a doubt the way to go. But those are the extra bells and wissle's. Not necesary, but nice.

 

I'd like an arsenal, but if I couldn't afford it I'd take a standard home converted saiga or even completely stock saiga over no rifle any day!

Edited by dust feeder
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There is, in my opinion, room for both the ready to go Arsenal and the "hunting" Saiga that "needs" to be converted. Having converted mine and taken it out to the range, I'm willing to do it again. Not because I think I can do it better than anyone else, but as JB! said, I too like the DIY method. Like an earlier poster I was also low on funds and this was a good decision for me.

 

Would I buy a ready to go Aresenal? Perhaps. More likely I'd buy the Model 2 (since I like the front end) and then "finish" the conversion, just because I had some fun (along with the frustration) in doing that.

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Well after reading all this...

 

If I were in the market for another 39R AK Id get an Arsenal no doubt. Done enough conversions that they are not any fun any longer so yeah might like to try a milled receiver that can go as is trigger withstanding. Having said that...

 

They don't have a 308, and that is a deal breaker for any further thought on my part. Far as it goes, since using a S308 Ive no intention of buying any more x39 AKs and may sell what I have ammo and all and go solid 308 with my whole "collection". Sorry for digression.

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I may get dogged for this, and I'm ok with that, but I just don't get it. To me an AK is an AK is an AK. Sure there are differences cosmeically and mechanically but it pretty much sounds like someone's $500 build runs the same as a $800 Arsenal. Or maybe I'm wrong because I've only just got my feet wet in the AK world. Like I said, I'm ok with being the whipping boy, just throw some facts at me with the flogging!

 

 

Saying a AK is an AK is an AK is Ridiculous !!!!!!! Arsenal SGL's are great detailed Ak's and that's why they cost more.....If you want to convert a Saiga Sporter yourself that's cool, but to be negative about Arsenal is just flat out ridiculous.

Edited by THE AK DUDE
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...Far as it goes, since using a S308 Ive no intention of buying any more x39 AKs and may sell what I have ammo and all and go solid 308 with my whole "collection". Sorry for digression.

 

I won't try to change your mind, as I half agree with ya. I still love the 7.62x39 though, (and I'm heavily invested in it). So, if you decide to sell your rifles and/or ammo in this caliber, please let me know. ;)

Edited by post-apocalyptic
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I may get dogged for this, and I'm ok with that, but I just don't get it. To me an AK is an AK is an AK. Sure there are differences cosmeically and mechanically but it pretty much sounds like someone's $500 build runs the same as a $800 Arsenal. Or maybe I'm wrong because I've only just got my feet wet in the AK world. Like I said, I'm ok with being the whipping boy, just throw some facts at me with the flogging!

 

 

Saying a AK is an AK is an AK is Ridiculous !!!!!!! Arsenal SGL's are great detailed Ak's and that's why they cost more.....If you want to convert a Saiga Sporter yourself that's cool, but to be negative about Arsenal is just flat out ridiculous.

 

How was I negative about Arsenal? Cause I wasn't worshipping them? I was asking for information. This is akin to going on a Harley forum and asking what's so great about Harley Davidson and getting "because it's a Harley" in response. I was just a newb looking for an education, no need to call me ridiculous

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...Far as it goes, since using a S308 Ive no intention of buying any more x39 AKs and may sell what I have ammo and all and go solid 308 with my whole "collection". Sorry for digression.

 

I won't try to change your mind, as I half agree with ya. I still love the 7.62x39 though, (and I'm heavily invested in it). So, if you decide to sell your rifles and/or ammo in this caliber, please let me know. ;)

 

Not a problem PA I will be sure to do so should I make that call.

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I know I'm late to the party on this, but I think that there is a lot of B.S. that people pay a lot of money for in weapons and parts in the name of collectability, aesthetics or being "original".

 

 

When you purchase an AK, you are purchasing a firearm proven for its reliability, ruggedness and simplicity.

 

There are people that snub their noses at a parts gun that doesn't have 100% matching serial numbers even though it may function perfectly. These same people often tout how "mil spec" their weapons are and are willing to pay hundreds more if it is more "mil spec".

 

Mil Spec means that it is made to loose military tolerances. Any AK or AR that we can legally own for under $10,000 is not going to be true to the original spec because it has been modified to be semi-auto only!

 

 

My experience with Saiga's is that they are well made, but often the parts don't interchange perfectly and need minor fitting from one to another (including magazines). I have also experienced canted gas blocks, and while frustrating, the weapon was properly zeroed at the factory and it was easily corrected by removing it and reinstalling it.

 

Bottom line for me, Arsenals are an excellent weapon with excellent features that will retain a high resale value. Those are the reasons why I bought one. I also own a Romanian Draco with mixmatched parts from the 1970's that shoots just as well as the Arsenal Saiga and costs half as much. The Arsenal is more versatile and has more features (scope mount and a stock) and is well finished, but I would be hard pressed to say that it is a better functioning AK weapon.

Edited by BuffetDestroyer
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I may get dogged for this, and I'm ok with that, but I just don't get it. To me an AK is an AK is an AK. Sure there are differences cosmeically and mechanically but it pretty much sounds like someone's $500 build runs the same as a $800 Arsenal. Or maybe I'm wrong because I've only just got my feet wet in the AK world. Like I said, I'm ok with being the whipping boy, just throw some facts at me with the flogging!

 

 

Saying a AK is an AK is an AK is Ridiculous !!!!!!! Arsenal SGL's are great detailed Ak's and that's why they cost more.....If you want to convert a Saiga Sporter yourself that's cool, but to be negative about Arsenal is just flat out ridiculous.

 

How was I negative about Arsenal? Cause I wasn't worshipping them? I was asking for information. This is akin to going on a Harley forum and asking what's so great about Harley Davidson and getting "because it's a Harley" in response. I was just a newb looking for an education, no need to call me ridiculous

 

 

My bad dude. It was the AK is an AK is an AK is what got me.. I hope you get the AK that fits your need's. It's not about worshiping Arsenal it's just respect that they are a very good AK builder...

Edited by THE AK DUDE
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  • 3 weeks later...

Not to repeat, but you get a lot for the 800 or so on an sgl. I'm fairly new to the AK world, had my sgl21 for 2 months now. I doubt that most who want to get into the market can do a full conversion. I spent the time it takes in converting one at work and used the paycheck from that time in lieu of the hours put into the rifle. My barrel looks like a mirror (arsenals are chrome-lined,) theres a factory mounted and aligned scope mount on the side, my sights are straight, there's no wobble in anything, no unneeded holes, it has the dimples which supposedly add strength (haven't done a proper test to determine if they do but I figure they can't hurt,) and parts with mathing numbers. That means they were made to fit together and won't wear unnecessarily or fail prematurely.

Like I said I'm new to ak's, probably fired less than 400 rounds out of rifles in my life, and I can hit walnuts at 40 paces, standing (I'm 6'4", you do the math) so if the rifle wasn't consist, considering my lack of practice, I would to be able to make hits like this. And that's the end-game of a firearm, to hit what you're aiming at. Arsenals hit what you're aiming at. They do it right from the beginning and that carries over to the end, which is being able to hit stuff.

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To me an AK is an AK is an AK.

 

That is the common misconception. The more AKs you handle, the more you will realize it.

 

Quoted for truth. I've got a Wasr 10/63, it shoots AWESOME, but its a piece of shit compared to an arsenal. My bolt hangs on the tapco trigger group, the reciever cover barely goes on and the FnF is horrible at best. The finish is easily marred on the Wasr (ok, it is on the arsenal too), the gun came with crappy unfinished wood and a tapco stock, it doesn't have dimples so it has mag wobble with everything but Bakelites and Bulgy circles and it has a little trigger slap. Still shoots good, but give the choice and a bit larger of a budget id prefer an arsenal.

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I converted a Saiga 7.62x39, I bought an Arsenal in 5.45x39. It seems this has turned into a build it versus buy it thread. I can build up a beat up old Mustang into a real street racer or I can buy a Mustang that's been built for it. Either way, I have a fast car, but one cost me money and time and the other just cost me money.

 

Jim

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Arsenal will have better resale than a home conversion. They come with a threaded barrel which can be prohibitive if you wanted to thread a sporter configuration saiga. Warranty vs. some companies like I.O or century arms is much better. The time invested to do the modifications needed to get the rifle as they come from arsenal, myself found it enjoyable, but others might value their time more.

 

Arsenals often outshoot WASR rifles or other century and I.O rifles.

Most century rifles have non-chrome lined barrels

Most century rifles have poorer magazine fit some have unmatching serials.

You are more likely to have a defect in an I.O or century build

You are more likely to have a defect in a rifle you convert yourself

 

 

That being said Arsenal rifles do seem to be a bit expensive for what they are. I have an SLR and think the quality is excellent and it groups better than the century equivalent I sold to buy it. If your tool savvy than doing the conversion yourself is the way to go, I converted by Saiga12 and learned a lot from the process and feel more ownership and more of myself in the gun.

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i love my sgl. after selling my wasr 10 to help fund it, i have no regrets. they are pricey, but you get what you pay for. i cant bitch about anything on this rifle. i hear people state that the finish sucks but mine is actually held up well.

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