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Bullet Guide install F*** UP


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#1 Longboardrder

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Posted 02 September 2011 - 01:55 PM

Hey Everyone,



So I was installing my bullet guide, when guess what the tap broke, yes I probably went to fast. But what to do now?

The Tap is broken off flush with the trunnion(round), I have tried drilling down the center of the tap with no results.

Anyone have any ideas?

I was thinking JB Weld the guide in. Or actually weld it into place. Has anyone done this? What were the results?

What form of welding should I use? (I have limited knowledge of welding so please excuse my ignorance)

If anyone could help me that would be great, And please no negative comments

#2 my762buzz

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Posted 02 September 2011 - 02:11 PM

Hey Everyone,
So I was installing my bullet guide, when guess what the tap broke, yes I probably went to fast. But what to do now?

The Tap is broken off flush with the trunnion(round), I have tried drilling down the center of the tap with no results.

Anyone have any ideas?

I was thinking JB Weld the guide in. Or actually weld it into place. Has anyone done this? What were the results?

What form of welding should I use? (I have limited knowledge of welding so please excuse my ignorance)

If anyone could help me that would be great, And please no negative comments


I would recommend drilling out the tap stub lodged in the hole and drilling a size larger.
Next time clean the hole out so that there is no steel shavings before you start with the tap.
Oil the hole real good and only turn the tap 1/16 turn and back out each time.
If the tap ever feels like it is about to twist and snap, stop and reverse it.

I couldn't suggest using JB weld. Real steel welding would work but good luck with that.

#3 TJohn

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Posted 02 September 2011 - 02:29 PM

Hey Everyone,



So I was installing my bullet guide, when guess what the tap broke, yes I probably went to fast. But what to do now?

The Tap is broken off flush with the trunnion(round), I have tried drilling down the center of the tap with no results.

Anyone have any ideas?

I was thinking JB Weld the guide in. Or actually weld it into place. Has anyone done this? What were the results?

What form of welding should I use? (I have limited knowledge of welding so please excuse my ignorance)

If anyone could help me that would be great, And please no negative comments


Is the tap all the way through? If so, you might be able to remove the front hand guard and get hold of it on the bottom with a slim pair of needlenose pliers and turn it back out. I broke the tap my first bullet guide install, and went on to do four more bullet guide installations without a hitch. I had made it all the way through the hole with the tap when I broke mine, so I was able to take a small punch (smaller than the diameter of the tap and hit it with brass hammer and broke the tap out of the hole. It did not take very much effort as the taps are very brittle. I lucked out and my threads were alright and got the bullet guide installed. I have seen the punch method mentioned elsewhere on the forum as well. If you have a good drill bit you could try dilling it out but in my opinion it would be easier to use the small puch to remove it.

I would look at JB weld as a last resort after everything else has failed. If you look there is already a lengthy discussion on this board less than a month back regarding the use of JB weld. Good luck.

#4 Peckaldee

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Posted 02 September 2011 - 05:00 PM

A carbide drill bit would work well here if your using a drill press. That is if you have a flat point of contact to keep the drill from walking off.

You could try using pins to fit down into the chip flutes of the tap. Griping those with pliers and twisting it out the way it went in. Almost the same as an actual broken tap extractor.

Ahh, the memories of my younger machinist days. Its not how many holes you've tapped but how many taps you broke that really shows experience in that field.
Roll Tide

#5 Cobra's Custom LLC

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Posted 02 September 2011 - 09:28 PM

Done this a few times. It's no big deal. Just wear safety glasses and maybe gloves.... take a center punch and hit it real hard, and shatter the hardened tap. Clean out the hole and re drill it (with the correct sized bit for the tap of course), then proceed with cutting oil and a new tap, going slow and steady, only a 1/4 turn or less at a time til it's cutting good and gets through. Keeping the tap exactly perpendicular to the hole is important. It's much easier if you chuck the tap in a drill press or even a handheld drill, and turning by hand, or with the clutch set on a cordless hand drill, to stop the twist if it encounters too much resistance (before the tap snaps). That's how I do them anyway.
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#6 Longboardrder

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Posted 04 September 2011 - 02:52 PM

Thanks guys for all the advice. After trying many things for a few days, I finally just knocked it out with a hammer and punch.

Retapped the hole and it seems to be holding well.

Only problem is the bolt was hitting the top of the screw that holds the bullet guide into place.

But I hit it with the bench grinder and the bolt goes in all the way now.

Again thank you guys.


One question though, Should I thread lock the guide into place, and if so what color loctite?

#7 jadam13

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Posted 04 September 2011 - 07:53 PM

Red Locktite.....no reason to remove once its done so use the strongest locktite IMO

#8 TJohn

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Posted 05 September 2011 - 09:28 PM

Glad to hear that you got it fixed Longboardrder,I have tried blue loctite on a couple of rifles and purple on a couple, and I have yet to see the screw walk out. Who knows perhaps I will wish I went with the red a few hundred rounds down the road.

Edited by TJohn, 05 September 2011 - 09:30 PM.


#9 whitetrashrn

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Posted 06 September 2011 - 12:39 PM

If you have Red use Red. My one bike is a 64 Ironhead. I always have red on hand..

#10 jeepville

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 03:34 PM

I have joined the broken tap club. The only thing I can think is that I hit a shard at the bottom of the hole left by the drill. I was going extremely slow with a small tap handle using a ton of cutting oil and backing up every 1/8 of a turn or less. It snapped off flush on the top and just a nub is showing on the bottom.
I already broke a punch off trying to punch the tap out.
I am going to try freezing with a can of air then punching it again. or maybe freezing and trying to back it out by grabbing the bottom nub.

Edited by jeepville, 21 March 2012 - 08:55 AM.


#11 poolingmyignorance

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 03:57 PM

I have joined the broken tap club. The only thing I can thing is that I hit a shard at the bottom of the hole left by the drill. I was going extremely slow with a small tap handle using a ton of cutting oil and backing up every 1/8 of a turn or less. It snapped off flush on the top and just a nub is showing on the bottom.
I already broke a punch off trying to punch the tap out.
I am going to try freezing with a can of air then punching it again. or maybe freezing and trying to back it out by grabbing the bottom nub.

Yea, just gotta keep chipping at it. Theres no magic bullet for taps that small.
Our 2nd Amendment right is the most important of all, because it ensures us our ability to ultimately govern ourselves.
The ORGINAL Freedom of Religion is freedom FROM religion: My freedom from your religion and your freedom from mine.

**my post are meant to be general reference, and are not meant to be all inclusive. So if you say or atempt any of the actions that my postings reference ..your on your own*

#12 dolomite_supafly

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 05:02 PM

Realistically why couldn't the bullet guide be welded in place?

Not JB but actually welded using a welder.

Dolomite

#13 poolingmyignorance

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 05:09 PM

If your good with a welder, preferably tig and get it done quick it shouldn't be a problem..but if you over heat your parts you'l ruin the temper of your trunion. And that CANNOT be fixed.
Our 2nd Amendment right is the most important of all, because it ensures us our ability to ultimately govern ourselves.
The ORGINAL Freedom of Religion is freedom FROM religion: My freedom from your religion and your freedom from mine.

**my post are meant to be general reference, and are not meant to be all inclusive. So if you say or atempt any of the actions that my postings reference ..your on your own*

#14 jonnyb135

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 07:14 PM

Drill it out with a masonry bit. Similar idea to busting it with a punch. Masonry bits are hard and should break up the tap easily. I've broken off a few taps and found this to be the easiest way.

#15 Freagan

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 09:58 PM

Am I the only one to try their rifle without the bullet guide? It has had close to a thousand rounds flawlessly and still no bullet guide.

#16 Jet

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 10:24 PM

Realistically why couldn't the bullet guide be welded in place?

Not JB but actually welded using a welder.

Dolomite

Keith at TAC 47 has welded a couple of bullet guides for me. They work great.

#17 jeepville

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 07:11 AM

Am I the only one to try their rifle without the bullet guide? It has had close to a thousand rounds flawlessly and still no bullet guide.

I tried mine with a tapco 30 round I was getting horrible bent cases and sometimes the bolt wouldn't close all the way so with that combo I need a bg

#18 jeepville

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 08:54 AM

All fixed now.

I used a computer air duster held it upside down and sprayed the liquid all over the tap hit it with a punch then sprayed it again and this time the tap flew out the bottom.
I was even able to reuse the broken end of the tap to fix the threads that the punch messed up and finish the tap.

I ran the screw all the way down to make sure it went in smoothly then took it out and put the bullet guide and put some red locktite on the screw and tightened it up.
Cycled the bolt a few times and it minorly rubs on the screw but closes everytime.

Thanks everyone for the help and ideas.
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