Ohio LEOs Steal Veteran's Firearm Collection

[ChileRelleno 7,071]

Edited September 11, 2011 by ChileRelleno

[ChileRelleno 7,071]

http://www.lovelakew...seized-weapons/

 

 

Disabled vet asks city to return seized weapons

Clockwise from the top left, a few of the types of guns removed from Rice's condo: Valkyrie Arms M3 .45 Semi-automatic, Thompson M1928 .45 ACP Semi-automatic, and Ruger Blackhawk .357

 

A disabled veteran has filed a request in Lakewood Municipal Court to compel the police to return a cache of weapons they seized from her Edgewater Drive condominium.

 

In the court filing, Francesca Rice alleges Lakewood police had an employee at Edgewater Towers open her condo without her presence, consent, or knowledge.

 

She claims to have legally acquired the firearms during and following her military service. The collection of arms is valued at $15,000 and includes some hardcore weapons of death, including:

 

- SKS M-21 Sniper Rifle

- Ruger Blackhawk .357

- Sentinel Arms 12 Gauge

- Gemtech .22 LR

- Ruger Mark II .22 LR

- Antique double barrel percussion shotgun

- Springfield Arms .45 ACP

- Thompson M1928 .45 ACP Semi-automatic

- Mossberg 500A 12 Gauge Shotgun

- Valkyrie Arms M3 .45 ACP Semi-automatic

- Smith & Wesson M-686 .357

- Makarov 9mm

- Colt Model M1851 .44 Revolver

 

Rice's complaint indicates she is not under any disability and has not been convicted of any offense that would preclude her from gun ownership.

 

The complaint also says police have not filed any charges related to the weapons, and have refused to return them to Rice without a court order.

 

Representatives from both sides will be in court on Thursday to discuss that matter.

 

 

Edited September 11, 2011 by ChileRelleno

[ChileRelleno 7,071]

Judge's Order for Return of Property

http://www.lovelakew...110817_guns.pdf

 

More... Maybe there was a reason for checking her residence, securing the firearms and not releasing without a Court Order?

We might now have a reason for the cops to have been there Sep 2010. We don't have a reason for the guns to be held Sep 2011, no charges filed, and the PD admitting the guns are legally owned.

 

The linked PDF is scan of the call logs and not searchable for text.

..............................................................................

 

Code:

Call Type:

Personal Welfare Check 8977

Call No: 102610115 Agency.........: Lakewood Police Department

Received First Dispatched First At Scene Completed 9/19/10 9/18/10 9/18/10 9/18/10 15:58:58 16:01:36 16:04:48 18:03:54

Call Location: 11720 Edgewater Dr

Mod: EDGEWATER TOWERS Lakewood Dispositions:

POLICE CASE NUMBER By: 2P206 Incident Report 1 - 10-007430 WRITTEN REPORT By: 2P206 Narrative:

would like us to check to see if francesca rice in apt #709 is there. female is entered missing involuntary out of the va hospital and they have a signed certificate from a doctor stating she is a danger to herself or others and can be taken back to the va hospital against her will due to her mental and emotional status.

.............................................................

 

 

18 sep 2010 she was reported missing from the VA hospital, but no indications she was at the apartment. Seven days later, the police entered the apartment (25 Sep 2010) and collected Rice's gun collection, no warrant, no official reason given. (Unofficially related to the 18 Sep 2010 welfare check? Or for safekeeping while she was in hospital? Who knows, no one is speaking to the press.) No charges were filed against Rice. 25 July 2011, nearly a year later, her lawyer asks for their return. The police admit the guns are legally hers, but say they won't return them without a court order. 11 Aug 2011 the lawyers files a writ, and 15 Aug the court issues an order for their return. There are reasons both sides are not talking to the press.

 

A poster on this thread describes her as "a mental liability". There is no reason to ask why military veterans with post traumatic stress sometimes refuse to seek psychiatric care at VA hospital: you get labelled as "coo-coo for cocoa puffs", and once labelled the stigma sticks for life.

 

We have as much reason to assume she might want to sell the guns to pay some medical bills as we have to assume she might "kill a bunch of kids".

Edited September 11, 2011 by ChileRelleno

[stnls1911 55]

Since there were no weapons charges filed, and no warrant issued, would this be a federal case with the ATF investigating firearm theft??

[Arik 565]

.

Edited September 11, 2011 by Arik

[DrThunder88 912]

In Michigan we don't enter people as "missing involuntary" unless there's reason to think they have been taken against their will. We use a description of "missing endangered" for those who pose a danger to themselves. It could just be a systemic nuance, of course. Even if they did think she was taken from the hospital under duress, it doesn't explain the seven day delay or the seemingly casual entry into her residence without substantiating she was there.

 

Rather than assuming anything nefarious, I believe the police department was simply trying to limit its liability against lawsuits should one of Ms. Rice's guns end up being used in a crime. I see it more of an indictment of the lawsuit-happy society we live in than the anti-gun proclivities of local law enforcement.

[poolingmyignorance 2,191]

In Michigan we don't enter people as "missing involuntary" unless there's reason to think they have been taken against their will. We use a description of "missing endangered" for those who pose a danger to themselves. It could just be a systemic nuance, of course. Even if they did think she was taken from the hospital under duress, it doesn't explain the seven day delay or the seemingly casual entry into her residence without substantiating she was there.

 

Rather than assuming anything nefarious, I believe the police department was simply trying to limit its liability against lawsuits should one of Ms. Rice's guns end up being used in a crime. I see it more of an indictment of the lawsuit-happy society we live in than the anti-gun proclivities of local law enforcement.

 

 

What part of that justifies them having not returned the legal property to it's owner over a year later?

[poolingmyignorance 2,191]

To me it seems like a siezure of oppertunity. NO warrant siezure= FELONY THEFT. This simply an oppertunity for the state of Ohio to flex it's paramillitary muscel, in an already 2A unfreindly state. "We have badges, we have guns, give us yours or we'll come and take them to hell with federal law. What ya gonna do about it bitch?"

[D.C.MORRISON 494]

In todays america, she should consider herself fortunate to come through this alive.

[CJS3 3]

In Michigan we don't enter people as "missing involuntary" unless there's reason to think they have been taken against their will. We use a description of "missing endangered" for those who pose a danger to themselves. It could just be a systemic nuance, of course. Even if they did think she was taken from the hospital under duress, it doesn't explain the seven day delay or the seemingly casual entry into her residence without substantiating she was there.

 

Rather than assuming anything nefarious, I believe the police department was simply trying to limit its liability against lawsuits should one of Ms. Rice's guns end up being used in a crime. I see it more of an indictment of the lawsuit-happy society we live in than the anti-gun proclivities of local law enforcement.

 

 

So why give her a reason to sue? Taking her property, without reason or warrant, does not limit their liability. It enhances it.

[patriot 7,197]

I'm thinking there will soon be a very rich veteran out there with all the money she needs to enhance her firearms collection.

[BpS12 512]

And Oiho wonders why it's bankrupt. Hmm, could it be the stupidity of a handfull of it's LEOs and those gov. officials that choose to support them. A few weeks ago it was the Canton cop and now this comes up. When LE gets over it fear of LAW ABIDING citizens owning guns, we just might get this state back in the black.

[DrThunder88 912]

In Michigan we don't enter people as "missing involuntary" unless there's reason to think they have been taken against their will. We use a description of "missing endangered" for those who pose a danger to themselves. It could just be a systemic nuance, of course. Even if they did think she was taken from the hospital under duress, it doesn't explain the seven day delay or the seemingly casual entry into her residence without substantiating she was there.

 

Rather than assuming anything nefarious, I believe the police department was simply trying to limit its liability against lawsuits should one of Ms. Rice's guns end up being used in a crime. I see it more of an indictment of the lawsuit-happy society we live in than the anti-gun proclivities of local law enforcement.

 

 

What part of that justifies them having not returned the legal property to it's owner over a year later?

Where'd I say it did?

[Dudethebagman 222]

In this instance, "missing involuntary" sounds like someone who was on a 24 hour involuntary mental hold at the hospital flew the coop. People don't get 24 hour holds unless they come to the hospital and a doctor makes a judgement call that they are "a danger to themselves or others." She may have been talking about offing herself or someone else. When the doctor called the cops, they went to her house and seized her guns.

 

I don't necessarily think that's a bad thing. If you are in a mental state sufficient for you to go/be taken to the hospital and spout off crazy shit to the doctor, you don't really appear to be in control. So the initial seizure may be legitimately justified by the cops and the doctor looking out for public safety (rather than fear of liability or the cops just wanting to disarm someone).

 

The PD keeping her guns for a year is another matter.

Edited September 12, 2011 by Dudethebagman

[poolingmyignorance 2,191]

In Michigan we don't enter people as "missing involuntary" unless there's reason to think they have been taken against their will. We use a description of "missing endangered" for those who pose a danger to themselves. It could just be a systemic nuance, of course. Even if they did think she was taken from the hospital under duress, it doesn't explain the seven day delay or the seemingly casual entry into her residence without substantiating she was there.

 

Rather than assuming anything nefarious, I believe the police department was simply trying to limit its liability against lawsuits should one of Ms. Rice's guns end up being used in a crime. I see it more of an indictment of the lawsuit-happy society we live in than the anti-gun proclivities of local law enforcement.

 

 

What part of that justifies them having not returned the legal property to it's owner over a year later?

Where'd I say it did?

Forgive me, I wasn't trying to put words in your mouth. My point is that if there is nothing "nefarious" then why not return them..I simply don't believe it's as innocent as you'd like to assume. A bankrupt state that suddenly comes into possession of $15,000 worth of property, they aren't going to be quick to let it goo.(We've all heard that old expression 'Possession is 9/10ths of the law) Especially something as controversial as firearms. If the lady in question was such a risk to her self and society they should have had not problem obtaining an emergency warrant for seizure of the weapons. But apparently that wasn't the case.

 

 

 

[ChileRelleno 7,071]

In this instance, "missing involuntary" sounds like someone who was on a 24 hour involuntary mental hold at the hospital flew the coop. People don't get 24 hour holds unless they come to the hospital and a doctor makes a judgement call that they are "a danger to themselves or others." She may have been talking about offing herself or someone else. When the doctor called the cops, they went to her house and seized her guns.

 

I don't necessarily think that's a bad thing. If you are in a mental state sufficient for you to go/be taken to the hospital and spout off crazy shit to the doctor, you don't really appear to be in control. So the initial seizure may be legitimately justified by the cops and the doctor looking out for public safety (rather than fear of liability or the cops just wanting to disarm someone).

 

The PD keeping her guns for a year is another matter.

18 sep 2010 she was reported missing from the VA hospital, but no indications she was at the apartment. Seven days later, the police entered the apartment (25 Sep 2010) and collected Rice's gun collection, no warrant, no official reason given. (Unofficially related to the 18 Sep 2010 welfare check? Or for safekeeping while she was in hospital?

On another forum, where this issue and the lady's situation has been discussed/researched more in depth, it appears she was already back at the VA, and it was a week after the request that the LEOs illegally entered the Her Property and illegally Seized her Legal Property. Legal Property which she is still legally allowed to be in possession of, she has not been, 'Adjudicated Mentally Defective nor Committed to a Mental institution', yet the LEOs refuse to return her property. Now a year later, and with a Court Order, http://www.lovelakewood.com/pdf/law/110817_guns.pdf , it appears they still don't wanna return her property.

 

I'm betting her property or at least some of it, found its way out of the evidence lockers and into others possession.

[Jpanzer 1,265]

The cops saw the weapons, one of them got a hardon for something there and more than likely figured he could sell it and pocket the dough. My bet is they won't return the property because they are no longer in possession of all the items...

[Dudethebagman 222]

In this instance, "missing involuntary" sounds like someone who was on a 24 hour involuntary mental hold at the hospital flew the coop. People don't get 24 hour holds unless they come to the hospital and a doctor makes a judgement call that they are "a danger to themselves or others." She may have been talking about offing herself or someone else. When the doctor called the cops, they went to her house and seized her guns.

 

I don't necessarily think that's a bad thing. If you are in a mental state sufficient for you to go/be taken to the hospital and spout off crazy shit to the doctor, you don't really appear to be in control. So the initial seizure may be legitimately justified by the cops and the doctor looking out for public safety (rather than fear of liability or the cops just wanting to disarm someone).

 

The PD keeping her guns for a year is another matter.

18 sep 2010 she was reported missing from the VA hospital, but no indications she was at the apartment. Seven days later, the police entered the apartment (25 Sep 2010) and collected Rice's gun collection, no warrant, no official reason given. (Unofficially related to the 18 Sep 2010 welfare check? Or for safekeeping while she was in hospital?

On another forum, where this issue and the lady's situation has been discussed/researched more in depth, it appears she was already back at the VA, and it was a week after the request that the LEOs illegally entered the Her Property and illegally Seized her Legal Property. Legal Property which she is still legally allowed to be in possession of, she has not been, 'Adjudicated Mentally Defective nor Committed to a Mental institution', yet the LEOs refuse to return her property. Now a year later, and with a Court Order, http://www.lovelakew...110817_guns.pdf , it appears they still don't wanna return her property.

 

I'm betting her property or at least some of it, found its way out of the evidence lockers and into others possession.

 

If it was a week later, that's pretty ridiculous.