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Trigger reset issue


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During a recent trip to the range my once dead reliable S12 started giving me grief. I ran about fifty rounds of bird shot followed by thirty slugs with no problems at all. I switched to #4 Buck and every few rounds the trigger would not reset. The gun was ejecting and feeding fine but the trigger was getting hung internally but a light tap on the trigger would let it travel forward. I tried opening it up to spot the issue but even jiggling the dust cover was enough to free it up. I can't duplicate the problem manually and am at a total loss. The gun has been converted and has seen a thousand rounds or more. Any help would be great.

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Sounds like your hammer spring may be slipping off the right side of the trigger bar and it's losing spring pressure for the return travel / reset. Look at it and see if it has and is stuck to the inside. If so take it and put a slight outward bend on about the last inch of the spring leg, forcing it to stay to the outside against the BHO.

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Sounds like your hammer spring may be slipping off the right side of the trigger bar and it's losing spring pressure for the return travel / reset. Look at it and see if it has and is stuck to the inside. If so take it and put a slight outward bend on about the last inch of the spring leg, forcing it to stay to the outside against the BHO.

 

 

That was the first thing I looked at and the spring is were it should be. When I did the conversation I bent the spring leg to hold the BHO firmly against the side of the receiver and the legs are solidly hooked on the bar.

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With the spring legs both wrapped back around the hammer (so they don't touch the trigger) does the trigger have full unrestricted movement back and forth? Sometimes they can be barely rubbing the front of the trigger hole and cause the same issue.

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With the spring legs both wrapped back around the hammer (so they don't touch the trigger) does the trigger have full unrestricted movement back and forth? Sometimes they can be barely rubbing the front of the trigger hole and cause the same issue.

 

I hadn't thought of that but I will look when I get out of work. The trigger feels smooth and free though and the fact that it only seem to do it on buckshot which shouldn't make a difference really has me confused.

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I had exactly the same issue with mine a couple of weeks ago. It was the #4 shot that started it for me too. Weird.

On mine, it appeared to be the disconnector hanging up on the hammer. After I fired, the gun cycled fine, but when I pulled the trigger, it was still all the way back. I could manually force it forward and into place, but actually had to give the receiver a solid whack a couple of times. It was my first time out using a light grease as lube and thought maybe enough fouling had accumulated on the underside of the disconnector? It doesn't seem like that would be enough to hang the hammer up though...

500+ rounds through it and I've never had an issue with the mainspring slipping off the trigger legs.

post-32852-0-89304200-1316013199_thumb.jpg

^That's what it's supposed to look like, right?

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Sounds like your hammer spring may be slipping off the right side of the trigger bar and it's losing spring pressure for the return travel / reset. Look at it and see if it has and is stuck to the inside. If so take it and put a slight outward bend on about the last inch of the spring leg, forcing it to stay to the outside against the BHO.

 

 

That was the first thing I looked at and the spring is were it should be. When I did the conversation I bent the spring leg to hold the BHO firmly against the side of the receiver and the legs are solidly hooked on the bar.

 

Unless you have your dust cover off while your shooting, you probably won't be able to see if the spring is the problem or not. It takes very little pressure on the trigger to push the trigger leg back to its original spot. Sometimes it will just work its self back without any help from you. So when you open up the gun the trigger leg will be back to its original spot. Try pushing the leg off and see if you can duplicate the problem that way. I've had the same problem with buckshot and it was the trigger leg. The recoil seems to push that trigger leg off pretty easy in its original state, or if you didn't bend it enough. I had to go back and and rebend the trigger leg. I also grabbed a hold of the leg and gave it a good clockwise twist so that it would stay seated.

Edited by incognito485
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I just got home and opened the gun up. It took all of two seconds to verify that the right spring leg was indeed the culprit. It took another five minutes of tweaking with a leathman to get it bent so that it requires a dental pick to get it off the trigger bar now. I won't get to shoot today but I have no doubt its fixed. Thanks to everyone for the great help and is the reason this is the only firearms forum I'm on.

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Some of the above is why I polish the trigger's axis pin the way I do in GlassBolt.

I leave a very, very, slight crosshatch to preserve capillarity action for lubrication retention.

Add a drop of Automatic Transmission fluid on the axis as lube.

Auto Transmission fluid is a great high temp lube with corrosion inhibitors for rotational movement.

 

For single hook triggers my spring bend is right after the coil because placing the bend there is effective at keeping the spring leg where it needs to be on the trigger bar, but also, holds the BHO against the receiver better so the BHO can't tilt in & get jammed up in the weapon.

 

Also, this is why I polish the back of the hammer so it's released from the disconnector easier. Same thing with polishing the trigger bars. It reduces resistance encountered by the mainspring.

 

All these are done in conjunction in GlassBolt to ensure that the trigger always positively resets...

 

 

However.....

I have a Tapco G-2 in the shop right now with a messed up sleeve that's causing major resistance.

 

There's another thing I'm about to start doing that's going to improve the triggers reliability & feel even further, but I can't talk about it right now for obvious reasons.

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post-32852-0-89304200-1316013199_thumb.jpg

^That's what it's supposed to look like, right?

 

Jonny, it looks to me like it's tweaked backwards of what you really want. Look at where it's hooked over the trigger leg, it's drifting inward. The spring is resting up against the BHO and the end of the spring is sprung towards the inside of the receiver.

 

The very end of spring should be trying to spring out towards the receiver wall. That little vertical leg on the tip of the spring keeps it from hoping over the trigger leg to the outboard side.

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Spartacus is right. And all that other stuff about what makes custom fitted triggers work better than the rest..... well that's pretty much old news. People in the know have been doing all that and more for years, plus other little tweeks here and there all over the firearm...

 

What at least 75 - 80 % of folks on this forum still don't seem to understand is, the Tapco G-2, RSA, TAKT, Arsenal, Century, .... any unmodified AK trigger you can find and buy anywhere, is NOT in spec to work as good as it can work, in a Saiga rifle even... much less in a Saiga shotgun... and especially not the Saiga 12. These guns can be as different as snowflakes, and to get the FCG to really perform at it's best, you should have the gun it's going in, on the bench in front of you when it's being modified for it. There is a fine line between too much and not enough....

The bolt stop the Russians added to the mix for these Saigas, was not around when the original Kalashnikovs were designed and built. It takes a lot of careful work to get the best trigger you can get in a Saiga 12, using what we have to work with. Somebody will take a hint and pick up the damned ball one day. Then we will have an FCG that was actually designed to work in this platform. I have talked to a lot of people about it over the years though... some who thought they were going to actually do something with it..... still NOTHING!...

 

Anyone out there who has access to good machinery can make a trigger group that will truly drop right in a Saiga 12 and work good.

Until then..... I will keep modifying G-2s and other FCGs to work, as good or better than any other trigger in any other AK variant... period.

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post-32852-0-89304200-1316013199_thumb.jpg

^That's what it's supposed to look like, right?

 

Jonny, it looks to me like it's tweaked backwards of what you really want. Look at where it's hooked over the trigger leg, it's drifting inward. The spring is resting up against the BHO and the end of the spring is sprung towards the inside of the receiver.

 

The very end of spring should be trying to spring out towards the receiver wall. That little vertical leg on the tip of the spring keeps it from hoping over the trigger leg to the outboard side.

 

Ah ha! I know I've read about this several times before but I always get confused by the other explanations I've read. Not sure why, but the way you put that finally clicked. Many thanks.

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Spartacus is right. And all that other stuff about what makes custom fitted triggers work better than the rest..... well that's pretty much old news. People in the know have been doing all that and more for years, plus other little tweeks here and there all over the firearm...

 

What at least 75 - 80 % of folks on this forum still don't seem to understand is, the Tapco G-2, RSA, TAKT, Arsenal, Century, .... any unmodified AK trigger you can find and buy anywhere, is NOT in spec to work as good as it can work, in a Saiga rifle even... much less in a Saiga shotgun... and especially not the Saiga 12. These guns can be as different as snowflakes, and to get the FCG to really perform at it's best, you should have the gun it's going in, on the bench in front of you when it's being modified for it. There is a fine line between too much and not enough....

 

IMHO, the arsenal FCG should really be avoided in the S-12.

The darn trigger hook is just too high & when the weapon's manually racked the carrier has a harder time getting over the hammer as the carrier goes forward.

Don't even get me started on an Arsenal FCG on a .308. All I have to say is go for Tapco, Texas AK, RSA, or anybody but Arsenal on a .308 they fit together so tight.

Sure, modifications can be done to make it smoother, but it'll never be as smooth as a Tapco or others with the lower trigger hook(s) when initially charged. Granted, once firing, the hammer's down in the disconnector as the carrier travels over it & back, so there's really minimal no difference when firing, just when charging the weapon.

 

That's why even though the tapco could be more ergonomic with regards to the lever it's self, I still recommend the Tapco.

 

I worked on a Red Star Arms adjustable FCG & although it's nice to be able to adjust everything with an Allen wrench, a good smith can adjust a Tapco all the same.

 

In GlassBolt I match the hammer to the carrier for a certain total thickness & depth of hammer engagement into the disconnector which performs very well with all firearms they've been in thus far.

 

If I have a full firearm in front of me I custom fit everything together.

If only the parts, I have one formula for carrier to hammer profile, & for generic FCG's where I will not be treating the carrier, I have one set hammer profile.

This ensures performance that's as optimal as possible for the given set of circumstances.

 

I've spec'ed dozens of S-12's to come up with what I feel is the best formula. Every FCG is function tested here before leaving the shop.

 

Same with bolts.

If one were to measure the wall thickness of 20 of my bolts, they'd a find consistency. This ensures a consistent performance gain if all other variables remain consistent.

I'm proud of this, because I've found that this is not always the case.

 

I've seen previously modified sets come in where there seemed to be no rhyme or reason to the specs that people bring them to.

Hammers that varied .02" from eachother, same with carriers, & bolts that were thick in places that others from the same source were thinner.

I could see if they were all matched to a specific firearm, but they weren't. The person who did the mods only had the parts when he did the work

 

Any idea why consistencies would be varied so much set to set from the same source when the person doing the mods didn't have the firearm? Just the parts?

 

The only conclusion I can come up with it that they were just eyeballing stuff & did it however they felt that day rather than developing a formula & standard specs for their systems.

 

With regards to mainspring tuning to keep proper position & to keep the BHO from tilting in & getting jammed up in the action, this is how a properly tuned FCG should function;

 

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