PinkFloyd 63 Posted October 4, 2011 Report Share Posted October 4, 2011 Just curious about a couple things... Mainly I was wondering how the little mini Dracos run? The reason I ask is I'm really into Krinkovs and Suchkas but the kits are just so damn expensive these days plus the cost of building them. The Draco would make a decent mid size SBR but you only really shorten the gun by a couple inches over an undfolder and you have to have a form 1 with a 200$ stamp. Anyway are they reliable? Do they have relatively smooth actions? The Mini looks like it has promise tho... It's 3 inches shorter overall than the regular Draco so it should theoretically be a better SBR candidate. The plan would be to fit an Ace side folder to the back and use a TWS replacement receiver cover to get the hinged cover like Krinks have. I'd replace the foreend with something, idk yet what, and put a Krink style brake on it. I like X39 and have a shit ton of Bakelite mags already. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HART1 92 Posted October 4, 2011 Report Share Posted October 4, 2011 Haven't had a chance to shoot mine yet, just picked it up on Sunday. http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?/topic/71247-new-product-idea/page__pid__691987&do=findComment&comment=691987 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Shadoh 16 Posted October 4, 2011 Report Share Posted October 4, 2011 (edited) Thats what I plan on doing with mine. I have a CTR with a Stormwerkz folder ready to go. The gun runs great. Edited October 4, 2011 by Shadoh 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HART1 92 Posted October 4, 2011 Report Share Posted October 4, 2011 How did you mount the HK rear sight to that dust cover? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Shadoh 16 Posted October 5, 2011 Report Share Posted October 5, 2011 The last "rib" on the rail is about twice as thick as the others. I cut it down so that it was the right thickness to fit in the HK slot. I cut off the other "ribs" that were in the way and then tapped it for a screw. You have to be very careful though as there isnt much meat on the underside of the rail. You dont want to go all the way through. Its very solid and not going to go anywhere. The front side is adjustable for windage and elevation so you dont need the lower base from the HK sight. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HART1 92 Posted October 5, 2011 Report Share Posted October 5, 2011 (edited) Did you tap the side of the rail for your windage adjustment screw also? Could you take a closer pic of it please? I was going to do something like that with a tromix rail. Edited October 5, 2011 by ARMOR Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Shadoh 16 Posted October 5, 2011 Report Share Posted October 5, 2011 I was going to tap it for windage but changed my mind because the front sight is adjustable. Im still considering cutting more of the rail off and making a mount for the HK that encloses it in a bit and give it a more finished look. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
termpred 3 Posted October 5, 2011 Report Share Posted October 5, 2011 Can you explain the handguard please? Like what type and how you modded it (if you had to). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Shadoh 16 Posted October 5, 2011 Report Share Posted October 5, 2011 (edited) The hand guard is just a Midwest Industries. I didnt like my sight so far forward so I removed the top rail and made those vented pieces for each side. I modded the rail so it would sit farther back on the gun. MI is working on a dedicated Draco rail and should have it out soon. Edited October 6, 2011 by Shadoh Quote Link to post Share on other sites
PinkFloyd 63 Posted October 6, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2011 So I take it according to the BATF the magpul AFG is okay to have on a pistol without a form 1 AOW? I think I may go for the project... I'm thinking of getting a PSL while im at it and modding the PSL while I'm waiting on my form 1 approval. Parts list I think would be to find a Russian or Bulgarian side folding triangle stock and install that and go with a custom made hand guard. I'm surprised no one makes a triangle folder clone that's US made and installs to a ACE side folding mech. That would be tops, you'd get US parts for 922r and it would look like an old school AK. I just want it to look like something that came out of Chrenobyl rather than out of someones basement shop... I don't like hanging crap off my Ak unless it's totally nessisary and ACE parts look out of place to me. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
PinkFloyd 63 Posted October 11, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 11, 2011 (edited) Alright well in preparation for this project, I've picked myself up a Izzy 100 series folder and trunnion. Still not sure if it's worth installing on a Draco, we'll have to see. I'm going to get one either way, it just depends on how much I like the little gun whether it gets the primo Izzy stock or something I weld up out of some old sheet steel. If I don't use the Izzy 100 stock with the Draco I'll end up putting it on a Saiga or something, maybe doing a 12k conversion or building that AK 103 SBR I've always wanted. I'll update this thread when I decide on hand rails and make this sucker into a WIP. Should be fun. Now I've got to locate the cheapest dealer for the Draco and get my form 1 prepped. Anyone in central NC have any tips for getting a Form 1 approved quickly? Edited October 11, 2011 by Floyd Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HART1 92 Posted October 11, 2011 Report Share Posted October 11, 2011 I bought mine from DPH Arms. I bought it to pull some measurements off of. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ben4345 123 Posted October 20, 2011 Report Share Posted October 20, 2011 Thats what I plan on doing with mine. I have a CTR with a Stormwerkz folder ready to go. The gun runs great. That is pure WIN! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
PinkFloyd 63 Posted October 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2011 Unfortunately I've run into a very basic problem- my Sheriff has a no-sign policy, at least that's what I was told when I called, for Form 1 NFA items. I'm going to try and set up a trust I guess. Are they complicated? I really don't want a lawyer getting involved for the extra expense. How does one transfer property property to the trust and then create a SBR as a trust? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
corbin 621 Posted October 21, 2011 Report Share Posted October 21, 2011 So I take it according to the BATF the magpul AFG is okay to have on a pistol without a form 1 AOW? I have a letter off to them about exactly that. I also called and spoke to a guy there that said it'd be ok, but he suggested waiting for the letter, in case any local LE took issue with the AFG. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ryan6864 11 Posted November 6, 2011 Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 Id pass om the Mini just because of parts interchangeability the regular Draco isnt that much longer and you can swap out parts. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Kalash103 0 Posted November 6, 2011 Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 (edited) Unfortunately I've run into a very basic problem- my Sheriff has a no-sign policy, at least that's what I was told when I called, for Form 1 NFA items. I'm going to try and set up a trust I guess. Are they complicated? I really don't want a lawyer getting involved for the extra expense. How does one transfer property property to the trust and then create a SBR as a trust? What a jerk. If your state law allows it then it his/her job. These jerks think they are some almighty authority who gives permission when actually their job is only to verify that you have no criminal background. I think certain judges and state attorneys can provide the required background verification but if you are not super wealthy and well connected then they will likely deny your constitutional rights as well. Edited November 6, 2011 by Kalash103 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Zambidis 90 Posted November 8, 2011 Report Share Posted November 8, 2011 (edited) Could you take a closer pic of it please? I too would love to see some more detailed pics. What a jerk. If your state law allows it then it his/her job. These jerks think they are some almighty authority who gives permission when actually their job is only to verify that you have no criminal background. Given the wording on the form I'd be interested to know if there has even been a legal effort to force a chief LEO to sign. Edited November 8, 2011 by Zambidis Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MH12194 7 Posted November 9, 2011 Report Share Posted November 9, 2011 Unfortunately I've run into a very basic problem- my Sheriff has a no-sign policy, at least that's what I was told when I called, for Form 1 NFA items. I'm going to try and set up a trust I guess. Are they complicated? I really don't want a lawyer getting involved for the extra expense. How does one transfer property property to the trust and then create a SBR as a trust? From what I'm to understand trusts cost around $600. For one rifle it isn't worth it. But if you must go SBR and have no other options than I guess roll with it or come election time. Vote for a diffrent sherif. So, $600 for the trust (in the long run you can make multi sbr's) and a $200 tax stamp. You just turned a $400 gun into a $1200 investment. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ryan6864 11 Posted November 11, 2011 Report Share Posted November 11, 2011 Love them or hate them prices on the Draco and mini are going up, the mini now goes for more than the standard Draco. But good luck finding one now for anything close to a decent price Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tram 11 Posted February 22, 2012 Report Share Posted February 22, 2012 Just picked up 2 Mini-Draco's for $950. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
armory 142 Posted February 22, 2012 Report Share Posted February 22, 2012 (edited) I asked Magpul about AFG use on a Draco, here was the response.... Thank you for contacting us. At this time I am unaware of any legal classification for the AFG regarding its use on a pistol. While we are not lawyers and cannot offer legal advice, it is my personal opinion that the AFG cannot legally be used on a pistol. By definition, a pistol cannot have ANY fore grip whether vertical, horizontal, or otherwise. That is why a pistol fore grip is typically called a ‘handguard’ or ‘heatshield’ by the various manufacturers (designed to protect from heat, NOT something that is supposed to be grabbed on to). The “ATF has long held that by installing a vertical fore grip on a handgun, the handgun is no longer designed to be held and fired by the use of a single hand” (emphasis added, please see the attached .pdf for reference). While this specifically refers to a “vertical” fore grip, the concept of the AFG is identical in that you need to use both hands to utilize it (one on the pistol grip and one on the AFG). Because of this, the AFG would most likely fall under the same regulations as any vertical grip. _____________________________________ DANIEL HUNTER TECH SUPPORT SPECIALIST MAGPUL INDUSTRIES CORP. Edited February 22, 2012 by armory Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MT Predator 2,294 Posted February 23, 2012 Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 Best to do what Corbin said. Write to the Tech Branch at the BATFE so you get clarification on paper. Several have said it was ok and I thought there was a letter posted on here somewhere showing it was ok. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ryan6864 11 Posted February 23, 2012 Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 Id pass om the Mini just because of parts interchangeability the regular Draco isnt that much longer and you can swap out parts. Its a toss up the mini does not have common parts but the regular Draco is so close in length to a standard AK with folding stock it almost doesnt seem worth it to me to spend $450 for the Draco plus $200 to put a stock on it, when I already have an AK with a folder on it that is only 4.5 inches longer. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Zambidis 90 Posted February 23, 2012 Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 I have gon back and forth on whether I want to SBR a mini or a regular draco and think I have finally settled on the Draco for an SBR. The argument for the mini is that it is 4" shorter (roughly 17" OAL versus 21" for the regular) and slightly lighter. As I see it the argument for the Regular is: Parts commonality, no funky block in the back of the receiver, longer sight radius, better ballistics (IIRC the drop I saw chronographed it is a couple hundred FPS loss going from rifle (2300 FPS) to draco (2100) and a couple more going down to the mini (1900). The fire ball blast and noise is even worse on the mini. The regular draco is a more proven design and setup. My other concern is that I intend to put a suppressor on the gun and I worry about the 7.5" barrel for that. I got my Draco before they were going for $450, I paid $350 I could pick up a mini right now at the LGS for just over that so the total price of the Mini would be a bit higher (but maybe not really if I sold the draco). I plan to make this my go to AK and build it up just how I like. I think that the regular may be a bit better for that. I love the look of this one (although I would like the red dot lower on a optic specific mount if possible. That is a modified MI rail not the mini specific one. I like the barrel hidden by the rail with the muzzle device poking out. I think a Bulgy 4 piece flash hider on it would be sweet. Of course that adds enough length to get much closer to a regular draco with an A2 to say nothing of the weight it adds. Decisions, decisions. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MT Predator 2,294 Posted February 24, 2012 Report Share Posted February 24, 2012 I think what people are over looking with the Draco is the fact they are made on the same assembly line as a Romanian AIMR and not hacked together by the monkeys at Century. You are getting a good Military grade weapon for the price and parts interchangeability with a regular AK is a plus IMO. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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