pjj342 632 Posted October 4, 2011 Report Share Posted October 4, 2011 I was just at my local gun shop and found something interesting, Sapson brand ammo. So I took one out and looked closely inside the hollow point, and sure enough, prefail cuts. There was only 5 boxes left so I bought all them, for 6bucks a piece. Has anyone had, seen or shot these before? Im wondering if these are new or old, and if i can expect to see them more often. and the spec side... and the head stamp... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
my762buzz 141 Posted October 4, 2011 Report Share Posted October 4, 2011 Has anyone had, seen or shot these before? Im wondering if these are new or old, and if i can expect to see them more often. That is the same ammo that is used in the hog hunt on this thread. http://www.texashunt...opics/1890654/1 It was also sold in white boxes with blue trim as seen in this picture above the bird and another version of it as military classic hp. It is the most lethal 7.62x39 bullet design that has been imported from Russia. The bullet enters flesh and quickly explodes open. The closest US equivalent is the Hornady plastic tip ammo. I tested both out on milk jugs http://www.youtube.c...u/0/mhyZ9ZoPJ90 Shot 2 is the sapsan aka 8m3 you posted a picture of. Shot 3 is hornady Quote Link to post Share on other sites
physicsnerd 139 Posted October 4, 2011 Report Share Posted October 4, 2011 Has anyone had, seen or shot these before? Im wondering if these are new or old, and if i can expect to see them more often. That is the same ammo that is used in the hog hunt on this thread. http://www.texashunt...opics/1890654/1 It was also sold in white boxes with blue trim as seen in this picture above the bird and another version of it as military classic hp. It is the most lethal 7.62x39 bullet design that has been imported from Russia. The bullet enters flesh and quickly explodes open. The closest US equivalent is the Hornady plastic tip ammo. I tested both out on milk jugs http://www.youtube.c...u/0/mhyZ9ZoPJ90 Shot 2 is the sapsan aka 8m3 you posted a picture of. Shot 3 is hornady Excellent info. What do you know about the box in the middle on the top? I had never seen them before and came across them at a store a month or so ago but the box didn't say much and the cartridges were sealed in a paper wrap so I couldn't check the headstamp. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
my762buzz 141 Posted October 4, 2011 Report Share Posted October 4, 2011 Has anyone had, seen or shot these before? Im wondering if these are new or old, and if i can expect to see them more often. That is the same ammo that is used in the hog hunt on this thread. http://www.texashunt...opics/1890654/1 It was also sold in white boxes with blue trim as seen in this picture above the bird and another version of it as military classic hp. It is the most lethal 7.62x39 bullet design that has been imported from Russia. The bullet enters flesh and quickly explodes open. The closest US equivalent is the Hornady plastic tip ammo. I tested both out on milk jugs http://www.youtube.c...u/0/mhyZ9ZoPJ90 Shot 2 is the sapsan aka 8m3 you posted a picture of. Shot 3 is hornady Excellent info. What do you know about the box in the middle on the top? I had never seen them before and came across them at a store a month or so ago but the box didn't say much and the cartridges were sealed in a paper wrap so I couldn't check the headstamp. Barnaul ammo nearly or exactly like Brown bear. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pjj342 632 Posted October 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2011 (edited) It seems like good stuff. I was getting 2-3" groups with open sights at 100yds( would be better with a scope though). I backyard milk jug tested it against a tula 122HP and it did blow it out a bit more. Im glad I got them, I really hope I can stock up on em. I know the wolf and the sapson have the same 'bullet', with different factory loadings. What Im getting at is, (maybe a dumb question) should accuracy be close between the three loadings? I know these ones are good, but If I find real sapson m8 bullets in different cartrige, should they at least be close? Edited October 5, 2011 by Boomsick42 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
my762buzz 141 Posted October 5, 2011 Report Share Posted October 5, 2011 (edited) It seems like good stuff. I was getting 2-3" groups with open sights at 100yds( would be better with a scope though). I backyard milk jug tested it against a tula 122HP and it did blow it out a bit more. Im glad I got them, I really hope I can stock up on em. I know the wolf and the sapson have the same 'bullet', with different factory loadings. What Im getting at is, (maybe a dumb question) should accuracy be close between the three loadings? I know these ones are good, but If I find real sapson m8 bullets in different cartrige, should they at least be close? Wolf black box ammo is a different grain weight and different bullet design. The Mil Classic camo box has the same bullet. As far as accuracy, the same identical bullet should behave the same in various loadings, but the powder load would be the greater defining factor. For accuracy, you want a powder load that produces the same pressure curve every single time and the the same exact muzzle velocity every single time. Sapsan might have been loaded x-amount of pressure and x-amount of velocity. Wolf Mil Classic camo box might have been loaded with a different powder load that produces more or less pressure and more or less velocity. Even cartridges within the same factory loadings, can be loaded with slight variations. This is most observable by measuring a set of velocities and determining the standard deviation range. The lower the standard deviation means more consistent and therefore a more precise flight path. If your concerned whether or not Mil Classic will impact at the same point of impact as Sapsan, I have noticed that the Mil classic and Sapsan I own seem to be close enough. Edited October 5, 2011 by my762buzz Quote Link to post Share on other sites
CPE1704TKS 24 Posted October 5, 2011 Report Share Posted October 5, 2011 I know the wolf and the sapson have the same 'bullet', with different factory loadings. What Im getting at is, (maybe a dumb question) should accuracy be close between the three loadings? I know these ones are good, but If I find real sapson m8 bullets in different cartrige, should they at least be close? Not any more. Military Classic from WPA no longer has the 8M3 bullet. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BpS12 512 Posted October 5, 2011 Report Share Posted October 5, 2011 "Barnaul ammo nearly or exactly like Brown bear." Good to know, I got some Red Hammer, which I found out later is another name used by Barnaul, awhile back and the round looks alot like the above pics(need to check the headstamp). Daci(my RPK) REALLY liked it. At one point I was doing 1-2" groups at 100yrds. With several hole to holes, with irons. The next closest was Win SP at 2-3". Couldn't do it the next trip though, but by the time I got to the RH ammo, the sun was reflecting like a search light off my orange front sight post and I was seeing double. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Razr 23 Posted October 5, 2011 Report Share Posted October 5, 2011 Has anyone had, seen or shot these before? Im wondering if these are new or old, and if i can expect to see them more often. That is the same ammo that is used in the hog hunt on this thread. http://www.texashunt...opics/1890654/1 It was also sold in white boxes with blue trim as seen in this picture above the bird and another version of it as military classic hp. It is the most lethal 7.62x39 bullet design that has been imported from Russia. The bullet enters flesh and quickly explodes open. The closest US equivalent is the Hornady plastic tip ammo. I tested both out on milk jugs http://www.youtube.c...u/0/mhyZ9ZoPJ90 Shot 2 is the sapsan aka 8m3 you posted a picture of. Shot 3 is hornady Hornady 7.62x39 is Cabela's brand. The ammo actually made in Russia by the same manufacturer. e.g Ulyanovsk. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BrutalGardener 205 Posted October 5, 2011 Report Share Posted October 5, 2011 I know the wolf and the sapson have the same 'bullet', with different factory loadings. What Im getting at is, (maybe a dumb question) should accuracy be close between the three loadings? I know these ones are good, but If I find real sapson m8 bullets in different cartrige, should they at least be close? Not any more. Military Classic from WPA no longer has the 8M3 bullet. According to whom? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
physicsnerd 139 Posted October 5, 2011 Report Share Posted October 5, 2011 Has anyone had, seen or shot these before? Im wondering if these are new or old, and if i can expect to see them more often. That is the same ammo that is used in the hog hunt on this thread. http://www.texashunt...opics/1890654/1 It was also sold in white boxes with blue trim as seen in this picture above the bird and another version of it as military classic hp. It is the most lethal 7.62x39 bullet design that has been imported from Russia. The bullet enters flesh and quickly explodes open. The closest US equivalent is the Hornady plastic tip ammo. I tested both out on milk jugs http://www.youtube.c...u/0/mhyZ9ZoPJ90 Shot 2 is the sapsan aka 8m3 you posted a picture of. Shot 3 is hornady Hornady 7.62x39 is Cabela's brand. The ammo actually made in Russia by the same manufacturer. e.g Ulyanovsk. I think that you're thinking of Herter's not Hornady. Hornady is made in NE I believe. I also would like to know more about the claims of the WPA Military Classic no longer having the 8m3 bullet. That would be a real shame. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
my762buzz 141 Posted October 5, 2011 Report Share Posted October 5, 2011 Has anyone had, seen or shot these before? Im wondering if these are new or old, and if i can expect to see them more often. That is the same ammo that is used in the hog hunt on this thread. http://www.texashunt...opics/1890654/1 It was also sold in white boxes with blue trim as seen in this picture above the bird and another version of it as military classic hp. It is the most lethal 7.62x39 bullet design that has been imported from Russia. The bullet enters flesh and quickly explodes open. The closest US equivalent is the Hornady plastic tip ammo. I tested both out on milk jugs http://www.youtube.c...u/0/mhyZ9ZoPJ90 Shot 2 is the sapsan aka 8m3 you posted a picture of. Shot 3 is hornady Hornady 7.62x39 is Cabela's brand. The ammo actually made in Russia by the same manufacturer. e.g Ulyanovsk. The bullet itself is a Hornady product made in America. Hornady has some sort of agreement to have their bullet loaded in steel cartridges. The Hornady plastic tip bullet I tested was on the same level of destructiveness as 8m3 from Russia. http://www.hornady.com/store/7.62-Cal-.310-123gr-SST/ I know the wolf and the sapson have the same 'bullet', with different factory loadings. What Im getting at is, (maybe a dumb question) should accuracy be close between the three loadings? I know these ones are good, but If I find real sapson m8 bullets in different cartrige, should they at least be close? Not any more. Military Classic from WPA no longer has the 8M3 bullet. The next chance I get to buy some of the next Russian shipment of Wolf MC I am going to cut one open and check. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Razr 23 Posted October 5, 2011 Report Share Posted October 5, 2011 Has anyone had, seen or shot these before? Im wondering if these are new or old, and if i can expect to see them more often. That is the same ammo that is used in the hog hunt on this thread. http://www.texashunt...opics/1890654/1 It was also sold in white boxes with blue trim as seen in this picture above the bird and another version of it as military classic hp. It is the most lethal 7.62x39 bullet design that has been imported from Russia. The bullet enters flesh and quickly explodes open. The closest US equivalent is the Hornady plastic tip ammo. I tested both out on milk jugs http://www.youtube.c...u/0/mhyZ9ZoPJ90 Shot 2 is the sapsan aka 8m3 you posted a picture of. Shot 3 is hornady Hornady 7.62x39 is Cabela's brand. The ammo actually made in Russia by the same manufacturer. e.g Ulyanovsk. The bullet itself is a Hornady product made in America. Hornady has some sort of agreement to have their bullet loaded in steel cartridges. The Hornady plastic tip bullet I tested was on the same level of destructiveness as 8m3 from Russia. http://www.hornady.c....310-123gr-SST/ I know the wolf and the sapson have the same 'bullet', with different factory loadings. What Im getting at is, (maybe a dumb question) should accuracy be close between the three loadings? I know these ones are good, but If I find real sapson m8 bullets in different cartrige, should they at least be close? Not any more. Military Classic from WPA no longer has the 8M3 bullet. The next chance I get to buy some of the next Russian shipment of Wolf MC I am going to cut one open and check. Yeap, Herter's. Sorry. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
CPE1704TKS 24 Posted October 5, 2011 Report Share Posted October 5, 2011 I know the wolf and the sapson have the same 'bullet', with different factory loadings. What Im getting at is, (maybe a dumb question) should accuracy be close between the three loadings? I know these ones are good, but If I find real sapson m8 bullets in different cartrige, should they at least be close? Not any more. Military Classic from WPA no longer has the 8M3 bullet. According to whom? Dealer/distributors and the order I just received. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
my762buzz 141 Posted October 6, 2011 Report Share Posted October 6, 2011 I know the wolf and the sapson have the same 'bullet', with different factory loadings. What Im getting at is, (maybe a dumb question) should accuracy be close between the three loadings? I know these ones are good, but If I find real sapson m8 bullets in different cartrige, should they at least be close? Not any more. Military Classic from WPA no longer has the 8M3 bullet. According to whom? Dealer/distributors and the order I just received. Something that might not have even been considered before is that maybe it is an improved version of the old 8m3 that works even better. It is odd that it holds the same 124 grain weight which has been distinct to 8m3 since it was first imported. Wolf Black box hollow points have been 122 gr Bear hp 123 gr Anyone have some of the latest edition of mil classic hp to check for the jacket cuts? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
CPE1704TKS 24 Posted October 6, 2011 Report Share Posted October 6, 2011 Not any more. Military Classic from WPA no longer has the 8M3 bullet. According to whom? Dealer/distributors and the order I just received. Anyone have some of the latest edition of mil classic hp to check for the jacket cuts? Yup. 1K of it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
my762buzz 141 Posted October 6, 2011 Report Share Posted October 6, 2011 Yup. 1K of it. Is the jacket thinner? Are the cuts there? Is the cavity the same depth? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
CPE1704TKS 24 Posted October 6, 2011 Report Share Posted October 6, 2011 Yup. 1K of it. Is the jacket thinner? Are the cuts there? Is the cavity the same depth? No cuts, by both visual and probe checking. Same checks against my old stock of MC found them. Depth appears about the same but the tip hole is smaller. Same 124gr bullet weight. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
my762buzz 141 Posted October 6, 2011 Report Share Posted October 6, 2011 Yup. 1K of it. Is the jacket thinner? Are the cuts there? Is the cavity the same depth? No cuts, by both visual and probe checking. Same checks against my old stock of MC found them. Depth appears about the same but the tip hole is smaller. Same 124gr bullet weight. Have you tried shooting water containers to determine any kind of terminal performance indication? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
CPE1704TKS 24 Posted October 6, 2011 Report Share Posted October 6, 2011 Yup. 1K of it. Is the jacket thinner? Are the cuts there? Is the cavity the same depth? No cuts, by both visual and probe checking. Same checks against my old stock of MC found them. Depth appears about the same but the tip hole is smaller. Same 124gr bullet weight. Have you tried shooting water containers to determine any kind of terminal performance indication? Nope, just arrived this week and no time to get out for testing. Of interesting note, Tulammo (out of Round Rock, TX) now has both 122gr and 124gr HP product offerings. Just put 1K of the new 124GR HP on order this morning. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
my762buzz 141 Posted October 6, 2011 Report Share Posted October 6, 2011 (edited) Yup. 1K of it. Is the jacket thinner? Are the cuts there? Is the cavity the same depth? No cuts, by both visual and probe checking. Same checks against my old stock of MC found them. Depth appears about the same but the tip hole is smaller. Same 124gr bullet weight. Have you tried shooting water containers to determine any kind of terminal performance indication? Nope, just arrived this week and no time to get out for testing. Of interesting note, Tulammo (out of Round Rock, TX) now has both 122gr and 124gr HP product offerings. Just put 1K of the new 124GR HP on order this morning. Wolf importing has traditional imported Tula under the Wolf name.Wolf black box had been repackaged Tula from way back. Oddly, the Tula ammo boxes declare they are not the same anymore even though the weights are identical. Time to go test the new stuff out. black box 122gr fmj/hp Tula 122gr fmj/hp Wolf black box 154gr sp Tula 154 sp Wolf mil classic 124 gr fmj/hp Tula 124 gr fmj/hp Edited October 6, 2011 by my762buzz Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BuffetDestroyer 969 Posted October 6, 2011 Report Share Posted October 6, 2011 I've been holding off buying a bulk purchase because I want to make sure they aren't just FMJ with the tips cut off. Your results are eagerly awaited! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pjj342 632 Posted November 1, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2011 Im happy to report that all of my clips are full of sapsons(110rds), with 150 more for function accuracy check. The 60or so that have already went down my barrel have been perfect. They are actually the most accurate of the brands I have on hand at 100yds. So Im beyond happy. I bought my local gun store out of them at 6bucks a box. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Red Star 38 Posted November 1, 2011 Report Share Posted November 1, 2011 i want to try this ammo! If its more accurate than Golden Tiger FMJBT, that would be something to write home about. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
physicsnerd 139 Posted November 1, 2011 Report Share Posted November 1, 2011 i want to try this ammo! If its more accurate than Golden Tiger FMJBT, that would be something to write home about. Ditto! I just don't know where to find it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Foxtail207 23 Posted November 1, 2011 Report Share Posted November 1, 2011 (edited) Where is this ammo available? Web searches have been of no help. Edited November 1, 2011 by Foxtail207 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
my762buzz 141 Posted November 1, 2011 Report Share Posted November 1, 2011 Im happy to report that all of my clips are full of sapsons(110rds), with 150 more for function accuracy check. The 60or so that have already went down my barrel have been perfect. They are actually the most accurate of the brands I have on hand at 100yds. So Im beyond happy. I bought my local gun store out of them at 6bucks a box. Barnaul or Vympel need to seriously consider loading 8m3 bullets in laquer coated cases. The red sealant on the neck and primers is nice to have. We need an official petition drawn up with signatures so that the bozos doing the importing lately will get their heads out their asses and import decent ammo like this. All the Wolf performance poly coated crap needs to end. It has zero benefit and does not protect against corrosion. Laquer coated cases rule. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BuffetDestroyer 969 Posted November 1, 2011 Report Share Posted November 1, 2011 I found TULAmmo 124 gr HP at Sportsman's next to the 122 gr. HP and 124 gr SP fir $6 a box. I may have to get a box and check to see if it is the Sapsan 8m3. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
my762buzz 141 Posted November 2, 2011 Report Share Posted November 2, 2011 I found TULAmmo 124 gr HP at Sportsman's next to the 122 gr. HP and 124 gr SP fir $6 a box. I may have to get a box and check to see if it is the Sapsan 8m3. I been trying to get the Tula HP locally and no one has it. The next gunshow might have some hopefully Nov 12. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BuffetDestroyer 969 Posted November 2, 2011 Report Share Posted November 2, 2011 (edited) Well I picked up a box of the TULAmmo 124 HP and the bullet sure looks like the Sapsan 8m3 posted above. I saw what looked like a shallow lead core and a cut in the copper jacket. My pics didn't show it, but I could see a cut in there. It also says that it is made in the Uly factory. It is not laquered or sealed, but the bullet looks like it is pretty close to the one we are looking for. Hope this helps! Edited November 2, 2011 by BuffetDestroyer Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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