Bigtwin 219 Posted October 9, 2011 Report Share Posted October 9, 2011 Not sure if this bad. Also don't know how long this has been going on. I just noticed it tonight while cleaning after the range. I have aprox. 2500 rounds through the rifle since I bought it new. I have about 500 rounds since I restored it to proper AK configuration. I don't like the idea of a recoil buffer after reading some of the issues it has caused folks. I noticed no difference in the recoil or anything wierd after I converted the rifle. I wanted to know if you folks think this bit of wear is anything to worry about? Uploaded with ImageShack.us Uploaded with ImageShack.us Uploaded with ImageShack.us Quote Link to post Share on other sites
my762buzz 141 Posted October 9, 2011 Report Share Posted October 9, 2011 (edited) Looks like excessive wear to me. Either too much gas or worn out/defective recoil spring. What brand and weight of ammo has the majority of your shooting been? What about for the last 500 rounds? Edited October 9, 2011 by my762buzz Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bigtwin 219 Posted October 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2011 (edited) Almost exclusively Wolf with some brown Bear here and there. Also about 40 rounds of PMC and Winchester. All have been 122-124gn bullets. Again I do not know when it began I have never given that area much attention while cleaning. I just happend to notice it by chance when I was moving the rifle while cleaning it. Edited October 9, 2011 by Bigtwin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
my762buzz 141 Posted October 9, 2011 Report Share Posted October 9, 2011 (edited) Almost exclusively Wolf with some brown Bear here and there. Also about 40 rounds of PMC and Winchester. All have been 122-124gn bullets. Again I do not know when it began I have never given that area much attention while cleaning. I just happend to notice it by chance when I was moving the rifle while cleaning it. I would email the importer with those pictures and go from there. Edited October 9, 2011 by my762buzz Quote Link to post Share on other sites
csspecs 1,987 Posted October 9, 2011 Report Share Posted October 9, 2011 Just a thought. When are you supposed to swap the recoil springs? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
my762buzz 141 Posted October 9, 2011 Report Share Posted October 9, 2011 (edited) Just a thought. When are you supposed to swap the recoil springs? Most other weapon platforms I read about were in the 5000 round limit. He has not reached that point so if it is not overgased or a defective spring then maybe a pressure peak issue of the ammo. If it was ammo that peaks later than mil spec ammo, then I would suppose it could be the ammo, but I would have to think the Wolf ammo makers would have their pressure peaks correct. With the .308 saigas, I am really surprised this does not happen more often because plenty of the ammo people use have varying peak levels and as with M1 garands or M14 types and hunting ammo that does not seem to work for overgassing according to expert gun smiths. Edited October 9, 2011 by my762buzz Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Paulyski 2,227 Posted October 9, 2011 Report Share Posted October 9, 2011 Recoil buffer? 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bigtwin 219 Posted October 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2011 Almost exclusively Wolf with some brown Bear here and there. Also about 40 rounds of PMC and Winchester. All have been 122-124gn bullets. Again I do not know when it began I have never given that area much attention while cleaning. I just happend to notice it by chance when I was moving the rifle while cleaning it. I would email the importer with those pictures and go from there. That may not help much, as I have owned this rifle for a couple years and it is a RAA import. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
my762buzz 141 Posted October 9, 2011 Report Share Posted October 9, 2011 Almost exclusively Wolf with some brown Bear here and there. Also about 40 rounds of PMC and Winchester. All have been 122-124gn bullets. Again I do not know when it began I have never given that area much attention while cleaning. I just happend to notice it by chance when I was moving the rifle while cleaning it. I would email the importer with those pictures and go from there. That may not help much, as I have owned this rifle for a couple years and it is a RAA import. I would have an AK smith look at it. The worst case might be the barrel gas hole is too big and would need to be welded up and redrilled. If you have the tools and know how, it might be a cake walk for you. Hopefully, your gas block is pinned and not secured on by dimples. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bigtwin 219 Posted October 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2011 Also, if it makes any diference..I failed to mention I have had a few reloads that I shot through it, though they were on the weak side, chrono'd at 2100 fps and I loaded them using 123gn bullets! About 80 rounds. Again I do not think that makes anything change. Unless mild rounds can hit the trunion (I doubt that though)! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mammynun 14 Posted October 9, 2011 Report Share Posted October 9, 2011 (edited) The 1st thing I'd do is replace the recoil spring with an "extra power" (XP) spring; here's an example: a Brownells spring. Edited October 10, 2011 by tritium nonbusiness member link not permitted Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GregM1 241 Posted October 9, 2011 Report Share Posted October 9, 2011 you could buy a bulgarian ak-74 recoil spring and try that as a replacement. i have been told they have a stronger recoil resistance than the saiga line recoil spring. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bigtwin 219 Posted October 11, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 11, 2011 you could buy a bulgarian ak-74 recoil spring and try that as a replacement. i have been told they have a stronger recoil resistance than the saiga line recoil spring. Thanks, I see the consensus is that is not an acceptable amount of wear. I will go the route of replacing the spring first. I have read more than a few times of the buffer causing reliability issuses. Can't prove it just what I have read many times(though there are a few who claim it has given no problem to them)! Thanks again to all info given here folks! You never fail to help! Bigtwin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
joek4061 6 Posted October 11, 2011 Report Share Posted October 11, 2011 (edited) I have a 7.62 and a 5.45 and both have the identical marks on them. The guns don't have that many rounds through them. I suspect that this is "somewhat" normal. You can clearly see the bolt carrier makes contact with the trunion on the left side only, and the center of the trunion has the same mash mark on it. I am thinking that a heavier recoil spring is the answer. Let us know how you make out. I will probably pursue the same path. Edited October 11, 2011 by Son Of Jared Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bigtwin 219 Posted October 12, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2011 I just ordered a replacement spring. I will post how that spring performs when I get it and shoot some more. I will use a marker to cover the old impact marks and see how that goes! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bigtwin 219 Posted October 15, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 15, 2011 Just installed the new spring from KVar, not sure if I will get out this weekend to shoot but if I do I will post the results. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rob0126 1 Posted October 15, 2011 Report Share Posted October 15, 2011 Is the recoil spring the same for the stock sporter configs? Id like to get a spare recoil spring for the 7.62 comin. Btw, would a small piece of rubber, used as a bumpstop, help this, just in case? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KC913 324 Posted October 15, 2011 Report Share Posted October 15, 2011 Btw, would a small piece of rubber, used as a bumpstop, help this, just in case? That's essentially what a recoil buffer is. You can also cut a recoil buffer in half or shave material from it to make it thinner, if it affects cycling. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bigtwin 219 Posted October 16, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 16, 2011 I just finished cleaning the rifle from my range trip today. I used a black marker to cover up the impact points. After the new spring it still is hitting the trunion, though not as much....acually very little by comparison. I may end up getting the buffer and thinning it out if I have issues(thanks Tin Man) for that idea, so the buffer may not be as bad as I have read. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lone Eagle 839 Posted October 16, 2011 Report Share Posted October 16, 2011 My Arsenal has the same marks after 500 rounds(give or take the 100 the original owner put through it). I called my cousin, and his Romy has "smash marks" as well. He did the split buffer thing, and changes buffers every 2-3K. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bigtwin 219 Posted November 29, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 29, 2011 Alright I installed a recoil buffer last week and shot it last weekend. 250 rounds and no issues. I will continue to update if it will last as being reliable (though I do not see any issues as of yet). Perhaps many folks feed issues were with other than a Saiga restoration. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
imarangemaster 315 Posted November 29, 2011 Report Share Posted November 29, 2011 AKs are over-gassed by design. Some smack the trunnion more than others. I am not a fan of recoil buffers, but in the case of one smacking the trunnion too hard, it is a simple fix with the buffer. It will speed up the return of the bolt, however, and sometimes causes feed issues. We put a rubber buffer in a full auto Uzi, and it went from about 500-600 RPM to almost double! If it were mine, I would try buffer before extra power springs. I used a vented Chi-Com gas tube to soften the snap of mine. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
my762buzz 141 Posted November 29, 2011 Report Share Posted November 29, 2011 AKs are over-gassed by design. Some smack the trunnion more than others. The hand fitted parts could be off by just enough. One gas block might be pinned/dimpled a few millimeters closer to the chamber than the previous one. Human error is still obvious to spot whenever a slightly canted front sight makes its way to gun shops. I have considered trying to bleed off excess gas to adjust accordingly, but there is no easy fix. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
postbanben 9 Posted December 1, 2011 Report Share Posted December 1, 2011 i am interested to see if the 100 series lives up the reputation made by akms and ak74s.anybody ever heard a high round count on a 7.62 saiga? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
thx1971 1 Posted January 25, 2012 Report Share Posted January 25, 2012 Just installed the new spring from KVar, not sure if I will get out this weekend to shoot but if I do I will post the results. What spring did you use, have a part number? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
my762buzz 141 Posted January 25, 2012 Report Share Posted January 25, 2012 i am interested to see if the 100 series lives up the reputation made by akms and ak74s.anybody ever heard a high round count on a 7.62 saiga? I have never heard of someone wearing one out. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bigtwin 219 Posted January 26, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2012 Just installed the new spring from KVar, not sure if I will get out this weekend to shoot but if I do I will post the results. What spring did you use, have a part number? I used the "maintnance kit" from Midway USA for the AK. It came with many useful items for the AK and was packaged with Kvar all over it! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lone Eagle 839 Posted January 27, 2012 Report Share Posted January 27, 2012 OK, cousin kicked into AR mode for a bit on this. What about opening the gas vent holes on the GB with a needle file a little at a time until the bolt/carrier no longer hits the trunion? Kinda like tuning the gas system on an AR. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
G O B 3,516 Posted January 27, 2012 Report Share Posted January 27, 2012 The vent holes are NOT going to do much of anything in a Saiga. Put a BJ buffer in it and go shooot it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lone Eagle 839 Posted January 27, 2012 Report Share Posted January 27, 2012 The vent holes are NOT going to do much of anything in a Saiga. Put a BJ buffer in it and go shooot it. That's what I thought, but figured I'd ask. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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