ChileRelleno 7,071 Posted October 12, 2011 Report Share Posted October 12, 2011 (edited) Do you carry proof of ownership for firearms in your immediate possession? Scenario: For whatever reason(s) you come into contact with LE and it becomes known you're armed, either carrying or transporting. LE runs a serial number check, and ask for proof of ownership, if not provided they confiscate/impound on the grounds they don't 'Know' who it actually belongs to. Seems like it becoming more common to hear of legally possessed firearms being confiscated/impounded if the holder can't provide proof of ownership. This could be very hard for some people to prove with paperless FtF private sales, gifted, inherited and otherwise acquired firearms. This is definitely Unreasonable Search & Seizure and I fear its becoming a increasing fad for 2A unfriendly LEOs and/or various LE Depts. I currently don't, but I might start doing so. Start treating every firearm like a NFA item and carry paperwork (receipt) on it. Another reason to start demanding some sort of basic receipt when making a private transaction. Edited October 12, 2011 by ChileRelleno Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chevyman097 2,579 Posted October 12, 2011 Report Share Posted October 12, 2011 (edited) It is unlawful for a legally owned firearm to be taken from you regardless of you having a receipt in hand proving you purchased it. I understand what you are getting at, Ive seen many of these threads around the net. But think about it. Do you carry around a proof of purchase for the shoes, pants, and shirt you wear? Just another case of the man trying to keep us down. You defend yourself, oh they take you gun. Case closed. Too bad you couldnt prove you owned it even though there is no law saying you have to. Best approach is to get a lawyer and hound the shit out of them until they give it back if a gun is ever confiscated. A proof of purchase wont do much good anyways if they are determined to be dillheads. Edited October 12, 2011 by Chevyman097 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
22_Shooter 1,560 Posted October 12, 2011 Report Share Posted October 12, 2011 There's no way for an officer to find out who owns a gun from the serial anyway. All he can do is run it through NCIC to see if it's been reported stolen. If it comes back clean, they have no further business with the gun. If they take it further and run your personal info through NCIC, they may be able to find out if you're barred from owning a firearm (I've seen plenty of NCIC hits where it specifically states that the individual is barred from owning/possessing firearms and ammunition, due to previous felony convictions or domestic violence convictions). I must be missing out on the news; have there been many recent cases where "LE runs a serial number check, and ask for proof of ownership, if not provided they confiscate/impound on the grounds they don't 'Know' who it actually belongs to"? Because like I said, there's zero ways for an officer to find out who owns any particular gun from running the serial, or by any other means. But to answer your question; No. I don't keep proof of ownership of any gun I'm traveling with (nor will I when I finally get my CWP..........about halfway through the damn 90 day wait! ). 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DrThunder88 912 Posted October 12, 2011 Report Share Posted October 12, 2011 In Michigan pistols are registered with the state, so running the gun through the database will reveal the owner. Otherwise, as -Shooter- says, all that can be ascertained through a computer search is if it's stolen. Still, it's not inconceivable that an officer would confiscate a firearm if he or she found the circumstances surrounding finding it were suspicious. It may just be that the officer will just write a brief report that so-and-so was in possession such-and-such firearm with serial number yadda-yadda. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
zenman223 460 Posted October 12, 2011 Report Share Posted October 12, 2011 Ive had guns confiscated and could not get them back due to no proof of ownership. Back when I was younger a shooting occurred at my house. I was not involved, I was not even home but I came home to quite a scene! In the melee my carry gun was confiscated along with my SKS that was used by my friend to defend himself against some black guys who thought it was a good idea to shoot at my house b/c I beat one of their ass earlier that day I learned that day a 7.62 will go through a windshield, A TORSO and a door panel like butter! The shooting was eventually deemed self defense. However I was never given my guns back I called and hassled the officer repeatedly about getting them back and was finally told if I could provide a bill of sale from the original owner He would release them, otherwise I would have to get a judge to order them released. Needless to say I could not afford an attorney and didnt have to time to do it all myself. Plus I could not provide any proof of ownership (even though It was taken out of the dash of my car!!) So in the end that asshole detective ended up with my MINT cond S&W 1006, an SKS and I ended up learning a valuable lesson(or two)! If you didnt buy it with a 4473 you better have some proof you legally own it b/c you never know what could happen and you could lose all your guns that you cant PROVE you own! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
termite 463 Posted October 12, 2011 Report Share Posted October 12, 2011 I've had the Po Po stop me and after finding out I was carrying, they'd run the serial # to see if it was stolen, then gave it back. Only had ONE prick ask me if it was actually mine and why wasn't the serial # on my permit, BECAUSE my permit is UNRESTRICTED, didn't you read that part, and YES, the gun is mine, I bought it with my own money. But to have to carry a receipt for every pistol I have, it ain't gonna happen. But I guess if you are involved in some crap, they may take it for investigation, and just to be stopped for a traffic violation and they take it, that's BS. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lbsrdi 1,078 Posted October 12, 2011 Report Share Posted October 12, 2011 I don't carry proof but maybe it would make sense to scan the reciept and shrink it down to go with your CCP. I do not think you should have to tho. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BpS12 512 Posted October 13, 2011 Report Share Posted October 13, 2011 I don't, but my primary's are all registered somewhere, OH or AZ. My low dollar firearms are not but save my stepdad's single shot 20ga. would just piss me off but not be a great loss. Likely wouldn't hurt to have docs though, next thing you know, they'll be forcing us to get insurance and have to show it with registration. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Marc 147 Posted October 13, 2011 Report Share Posted October 13, 2011 If you acted within the law to defend yourself or you were just "caught" legally carrying by some cop who wants to confiscate your gun(s) for "investigative purposes" then YOU need to DEMAND a receipt from that cop for EACH INDIVIDUAL gun he confiscates. I would also suggest that you demand that he include any magazines that he is also taking AND to list the caliber, type, brand of any ammunition being confiscated along with a round count on each receipt (or better yet, get a reciept for each individual round of ammo ). THE NEXT DAY you take copies of the receipts down to the police station and politely hound the chief of police about getting your property back going back everyday afterwards until you do, if you don't get it back then get a lawyer to handle it. IANAL, but this is what I would do, however. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ken1961 14 Posted October 13, 2011 Report Share Posted October 13, 2011 Here in Ga. we don't have to have proof. But there are exceptions to that depending on circumstances. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
yakdung 2,926 Posted October 13, 2011 Report Share Posted October 13, 2011 (edited) A sworn affidavit should to the trick. If someone tries to remove a gun from your possession due to not having a receipt, that is theft. http://www.legalwebreview.com/attorney-forms/general-affidavit-form-formal-sworn-statement/ Yakdung Edited October 13, 2011 by yakdung 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
xsmokey11499x 1 Posted October 13, 2011 Report Share Posted October 13, 2011 There's no way for an officer to find out who owns a gun from the serial anyway. All he can do is run it through NCIC to see if it's been reported stolen. If it comes back clean, they have no further business with the gun. If they take it further and run your personal info through NCIC, they may be able to find out if you're barred from owning a firearm (I've seen plenty of NCIC hits where it specifically states that the individual is barred from owning/possessing firearms and ammunition, due to previous felony convictions or domestic violence convictions). I must be missing out on the news; have there been many recent cases where "LE runs a serial number check, and ask for proof of ownership, if not provided they confiscate/impound on the grounds they don't 'Know' who it actually belongs to"? Because like I said, there's zero ways for an officer to find out who owns any particular gun from running the serial, or by any other means. But to answer your question; No. I don't keep proof of ownership of any gun I'm traveling with (nor will I when I finally get my CWP..........about halfway through the damn 90 day wait! ). its happened to me.. my buddy and I took my saiga and 12 gauge out, to go shoot on our way back to my house, We were pulled over, (he had expired Registration) cop ran my name, his name. I notified them That I had my property in the trunk, And They were firearms. I get pulled out of the car, slapped the cuffs on, They pull the guns out, and run the numbers Nothing came up for the saiga, My 12 gauge has been taken by the LEO before. they run the numbers on it, and try to say it's still supposed to be at the police station, I had to call for a ride to go all the way back to my house, get the copy of the letter from the DOJ stating that I can have my 12 gauge back etc.. go all the way back to where my buddy is sitting, and then they try to say that the guns arent registered to me (registered long gun lol ?) so all in all, 2 and a half hours later.. I get my guns from the PD but they took the car! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
22_Shooter 1,560 Posted October 13, 2011 Report Share Posted October 13, 2011 Ive had guns confiscated and could not get them back due to no proof of ownership. Back when I was younger a shooting occurred at my house. I was not involved, I was not even home but I came home to quite a scene! In the melee my carry gun was confiscated along with my SKS that was used by my friend to defend himself against some black guys who thought it was a good idea to shoot at my house b/c I beat one of their ass earlier that day I learned that day a 7.62 will go through a windshield, A TORSO and a door panel like butter! The shooting was eventually deemed self defense. However I was never given my guns back I called and hassled the officer repeatedly about getting them back and was finally told if I could provide a bill of sale from the original owner He would release them, otherwise I would have to get a judge to order them released. Needless to say I could not afford an attorney and didnt have to time to do it all myself. Plus I could not provide any proof of ownership (even though It was taken out of the dash of my car!!) So in the end that asshole detective ended up with my MINT cond S&W 1006, an SKS and I ended up learning a valuable lesson(or two)! If you didnt buy it with a 4473 you better have some proof you legally own it b/c you never know what could happen and you could lose all your guns that you cant PROVE you own! This situation is a little different from I what think Chile was talking about. You're talking about getting your already-confiscated guns back. I can see where proof of ownership would come into play there. I think Chile was talking more along the lines of being stopped, having a gun, and not being able to prove that you own them. But DrThunger and Illusion bring up a good point. I guess I forgot about states that have registration. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
454496 71 Posted October 14, 2011 Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 Make sure you have proof of ownership if you have a loaded firearm going through an Indian reservation. Laws are different on Indians reservations. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChileRelleno 7,071 Posted October 14, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 (edited) http://blog.al.com/l...lice_offic.html This one hits close to home, 20 minutes away. Supposedly, after some more digging into the story, the guns were Illegally Seized in direct violation of Our 5A and legal CCW possession, in the very manner of this thread's Topic. " You can reclaim it with Proof of Ownership." Edited October 14, 2011 by ChileRelleno Quote Link to post Share on other sites
FORKLIFT352 63 Posted October 14, 2011 Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 Why yes they are mine officer....can't you see my finger on the trigger. LOL Quote Link to post Share on other sites
22_Shooter 1,560 Posted October 14, 2011 Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 http://blog.al.com/l...lice_offic.html This one hits close to home, 20 minutes away. Supposedly, after some more digging into the story, the guns were Illegally Seized in direct violation of Our 5A and legal CCW possession, in the very manner of this thread's Topic. " You can reclaim it with Proof of Ownership." That story doesn't read out as a cop retaining possession of a weapon because the person in possession can't prove ownership. It seems he was just blatantly stealing peoples guns, period. It's pretty funny that he threw away 11 years on the force for some shitty ass guns. I guess he didn't realize that he can get damn good discounts on quality handguns, just for being an officer! lmao Idiot. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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