Lidocaine Looney 26 Posted October 16, 2011 Report Share Posted October 16, 2011 See you on the news.. Good luck explaining why they were shot and how your life was in danger while they were running away.. Where i live,if they break into your castle,you can kill them,not all people live in Massachusetts,California or New York. When i say running Target i did not say the word .."away"..you did....running to gain cover,once hearing a bolt close. And if you hesitate,i will see you in the obituares. Kentucky is far from any of the listed.. lol.. and you must have a huge house if they can "run" to gain cover and still be coming toward you.. I wouldn't hesitate, but I also wouldn't boast on an online forum about my tactics to take care of someone who is seeking cover/refuge from me instead of trying to kill me.. Link to post Share on other sites
rpur441044 5 Posted October 16, 2011 Report Share Posted October 16, 2011 (edited) wouldn't boast on an online forum about my tactics to take care of someone who is seeking cover/refuge from me instead of trying to kill me.. Boast ? Here is the topic of this thread "Which magazines for HD, and how do you store your S-12?" he asked a question people gave their opinions .How do i know their intentions ? They (break into your home) and "their" intentions are well meaning by your standards ?? lol.. because they run into another room. ..they could go into another room to gain a better angle,i would..only a dope charges a shotgun...yes some people have farm houses,not all live in one bedroom apartments.I will take my chances killing them first,questions later.If you dont like my answers too bad,read the next post. Least i forget.."tactics" ...shotgun tactics have been around for decades using different sizes of buckshot,nothing new there for the big bad internet,and people dont use just one tactic,you must have many tactics to fit a particular scenario,just like a shotgun has many different types of ammunition and chokes for many different types of scenarios,same with a tactic..what i submitted earlier has been known. Edited October 16, 2011 by DodgeTomahawk Link to post Share on other sites
Lidocaine Looney 26 Posted October 16, 2011 Report Share Posted October 16, 2011 lol. Link to post Share on other sites
taseal 12 Posted October 16, 2011 Report Share Posted October 16, 2011 factory 5 rd with Federal tactical 00 buck hi velocity nobody will come after me in court, because if they came into my house and did not leave and the sight of the weapon did not scare them off to run away, nobody will bother me in FL. they probably won't even take my gun. but I won't shoot someone unless I had no choice left. I'd hate to get blood all over my house. Link to post Share on other sites
montec 164 Posted October 16, 2011 Report Share Posted October 16, 2011 factory 5 rd with Federal tactical 00 buck hi velocity nobody will come after me in court, because if they came into my house and did not leave and the sight of the weapon did not scare them off to run away, nobody will bother me in FL. they probably won't even take my gun. but I won't shoot someone unless I had no choice left. I'd hate to get blood all over my house. I've got a great protein stain remover. Leaves no residue that there was any blood there ever. Nice working in the auto detailing field. Link to post Share on other sites
rpur441044 5 Posted October 16, 2011 Report Share Posted October 16, 2011 lol. For me Lidocaine its quite simple process as follows,maybe read some. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheshire,_Connecticut,_home_invasion_murders During this time, Hayes and Komisarjevsky escalated the aggravated nature of their crimes. Komisarjevsky sexually assaulted the 11-year-old daughter, Michaela. Komisarjevsky, who had photographed the sexual assault of the youth on his cell phone,[13] then provoked Hayes to rape Hawke-Petit. While Hayes was raping Hawke-Petit on the floor of her living room, Komisarjevsky entered the room announcing that William Petit had escaped. Hayes then strangled Mrs. Petit, doused her lifeless body and parts of the house including the daughters' rooms with gasoline. The daughters, while tied to their beds, had both been doused with gasoline; each had her head covered with a pillowcase.[14] A fire was then ignited, and Hayes and Komisarjevsky fled the scene. 17-year-old Hayley and 11-year-old Michaela both died from smoke inhalation.[5] 1. http://www.chron.com/neighborhood/pasadena-news/article/Joe-Horn-cleared-by-grand-jury-in-Pasadena-1587004.php 2. http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/pdf/07-290P.ZO Justice James Wilson interpreted the Pennsylvania Constitution’s armsbearing right, for example, as a recognition of the natural right of defense “of one’s person or house”—what he called the law of “self preservation.” 3. http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/09pdf/08-1521.pdf Heller points unmistakably to the answer. Self-defense is a basic right, recognized by many legal systems from ancient times to the present, and the Heller Court held that individual self-defense is "the central component" of the SecondAmendment right. 554 U. S., Link to post Share on other sites
Lidocaine Looney 26 Posted October 16, 2011 Report Share Posted October 16, 2011 (edited) lol... ok, calm down buddy.. find the most extreme case of violence and post it.. I never said i was against home defense, did i? I was making the point that when trying to kill someone, it should be when your life, or the lives of those around you are threatened. Not when they're "running away," which was how I interpreted your initial post because I can't see another circumstance where someone would be "running to hide" in a house unless they were scared of you and in that case, it would be in the opposite direction.. I'm obviously on this board and a supporter of the S12, so I don't know where the last post came from as if I was anti-gun or just for letting someone cause harm... With that said, I don't use the S12 as a primary HD gun. I have a pistol loaded with GoldDots and a TLR-2 mounted on it. I don't have 5 fmj bullets for "just in case they hide", followed by 5 hollow points for "when they come out," followed by 7 more fmj for "just in case they have body armor or a vehicle with more guys in it." I keep it simple.. get my point.. Edited October 16, 2011 by Lidocaine Looney Link to post Share on other sites
JackKelly 4 Posted October 16, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 16, 2011 The logistics of when home defense is and is not justified isn't really germane to the topic. While it's a fascinating topic, I'm more interested in the question of equipment choice...when force is needed is and how to apply it is going to be different for every person, for every state, and for every situation. Link to post Share on other sites
PinkFloyd 63 Posted October 16, 2011 Report Share Posted October 16, 2011 I have found drums, be they MD-20's or Promags, are ultimately unreliable in my S12. Likewise I've also had jams with my AGP's, which I think are pretty good in most occasions. The SGM magazines are far better, but still not perfect. Izhmash factory 8 rounders are way too expensive to be feasible. I'd probably take factory 5 round magazines simply because they're the only thing that seems to run 100% in my gun. Link to post Share on other sites
Roadhawg 10 Posted October 16, 2011 Report Share Posted October 16, 2011 Factory 5 round mag with Centurion Buck and ball. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
ChileRelleno 7,071 Posted October 16, 2011 Report Share Posted October 16, 2011 I have found drums, be they MD-20's.............., are ultimately unreliable in my S12... Wow, I must continue to count my small blessings.The MD20 is damned near flawless in my S12, if it wasn't so heavy-n-bulky, it'd be in place of the factory 5... Which is also damned near flawless. Link to post Share on other sites
Alpha Kilo 42 Posted October 17, 2011 Report Share Posted October 17, 2011 I have found drums, be they MD-20's or Promags, are ultimately unreliable in my S12. Likewise I've also had jams with my AGP's, which I think are pretty good in most occasions. The SGM magazines are far better, but still not perfect. Izhmash factory 8 rounders are way too expensive to be feasible. I'd probably take factory 5 round magazines simply because they're the only thing that seems to run 100% in my gun. Not to be a dick, but it sounds like your gun is borderline reliable. Link to post Share on other sites
Scott Kenny 144 Posted October 21, 2011 Report Share Posted October 21, 2011 I run 2 SGM 10 RD mags with bolt open ...top 4 rds is # 1 winchester super x 3 inch buck, rest of the mag is 000 Remmington 3 inch buck..i figure once they hear the bolt charge,they are now a running target,and i need the 24 pellets.Once they get clipped by the 24,i finish them with 000 10 pellet or if they are behind something... the 000 should get them to come out..lol.. one way or another. See you on the news.. Good luck explaining why they were shot and how your life was in danger while they were running away.. If your last command was "Move and I shoot!" it has been documented *in court cases* that human reaction times are slow enough for a person to turn away from you before your brain can *stop* you from pulling the trigger. You're still likely to go to court (depending on your state laws), but it is a proven legal fact that it is possible to shoot someone in the back when they started facing you. And anyone kicking in my front door will be staring down a 9mm, if only because the 9 is the closest thing to hand! Link to post Share on other sites
leadsled 40 Posted October 22, 2011 Report Share Posted October 22, 2011 I run 2 SGM 10 RD mags with bolt open ...top 4 rds is # 1 winchester super x 3 inch buck, rest of the mag is 000 Remmington 3 inch buck..i figure once they hear the bolt charge,they are now a running target,and i need the 24 pellets.Once they get clipped by the 24,i finish them with 000 10 pellet or if they are behind something... the 000 should get them to come out..lol.. one way or another. See you on the news.. Good luck explaining why they were shot and how your life was in danger while they were running away.. Running does not mean running away. An intruder in the home running away from the resident does not make him a good guy. See YOU on the news as another victim of the PC media. If anyone has the audacity to break in while I am home, they are an immediate and deadly threat. I will use any means necessary to survive the encounter and neutralize the threat. If that means my most expensive gun so be it! My life and others in the house are worth thousands of times more than any gun I may have. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Lidocaine Looney 26 Posted October 22, 2011 Report Share Posted October 22, 2011 Running does not mean running away. An intruder in the home running away from the resident does not make him a good guy. We've established that. And any intruder is not a good guy, obviously.. I will use any means necessary to survive the encounter and neutralize the threat. If that means my most expensive gun so be it! My life and others in the house are worth thousands of times more than any gun I may have. When did I say anything different? lol Can we please forget my poorly placed aside and keep this thread on topic? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
ScuseMePrincess 23 Posted February 23, 2012 Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 I would only trust my factory 5-rounder for HD. If I need more than that, I have my handgun for backup. That being said, could one of you fine gentleman point me in the right direction of some Izzy 8s? I understand that this is probably a pointless endeavor, but I've been on the lookout for a while with no luck. The last gun show I went to had no Izzy mags and wanted $200 for an MD20. Link to post Share on other sites
havok 21 Posted February 23, 2012 Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 Rusmilitary will have some around april and they go fast. Link to post Share on other sites
Boomstick12 11 Posted February 24, 2012 Report Share Posted February 24, 2012 If ya need more than 5-8 rounds of 12 ga HD ammo.... odds are you are having a VERY bad day.... Yeah....Like a SWAT Team coming through your door, LOL! I know, I know... I'm going to get mega flamed by the suck-ups, "LEO's", and groupies... But it NEEDS said. The fact that this is a JOKE to some is VERY demonstrative and instructive on our society and it's attitude towards the encroachment of the police state. It is also PRECISELY why my family keeps a loaded S-12 with an MD-20 (staggered load), the S-.223 (SS-109), a few pump 12 guages (staggered loads), and some sidearms located at various secure points throughout our house, why we train to defeat body armor, and why we have "managed" choke points and fatal funnels throughout our house as well. NOT because of fear of a LEGITIMATE warrant (that is a non issue)- but if they hit the wrong house- as SWAT teams are documented to have done- with tragic results, COUNTLESS times in this country... They're going to regret it- In my book a home invasion is a home invasion- an act of WAR- regardless of costume or "authority". It is NOT funny, it is NOT a joke. It IS a legitimate problem and concern for every Free man and woman living in this land. Perhaps instead of casually "brushing off" this real threat to our personal privacy and security as amusing, you could take the time to consider YOUR reaction to a situation such as the photo suggests- and plan accordingly. Sorry for the tangent. I can just recognize the subtle indoctrination rearing it's ugly head, and won't let it pass. I'm sure you'll get flamed for that, but I totally agree. It's starting to get to the point that when I leave my house, I'm more afraid of the police. People may laugh, but really think about it. If a criminal confronts you, you shoot them, things go from there, and usually, if it's self defense, you're good. If a cop confronts you, they can lie, beat you, make things up, delete their dash cams, and get away with it scott free. As far as home defense. I have a 10 round drum with 00 buck. I don't have one in the chamber in the hopes that racking it will scare the scumbags off. I live in NY, so I basically have to prove that my life was in danger before I go blasting some scum even if they are in my house. And even then, because of NY I'm nervous about it. I have found drums, be they MD-20's or Promags, are ultimately unreliable in my S12. Likewise I've also had jams with my AGP's, which I think are pretty good in most occasions. The SGM magazines are far better, but still not perfect. Izhmash factory 8 rounders are way too expensive to be feasible. I'd probably take factory 5 round magazines simply because they're the only thing that seems to run 100% in my gun. Not to be a dick, but it sounds like your gun is borderline reliable. Not trying to be a dick either, but I agree. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
armory 142 Posted February 24, 2012 Report Share Posted February 24, 2012 Factory 5 with PDX1.... Bolt open, ready to drop the modded safety lever BHO..... I'll give up my position when that occurs,...... But most bad guys know that sound, and know that something unpleasant is coming their way. That's only fair in my opinion..... Link to post Share on other sites
Scatillac 22 Posted February 26, 2012 Report Share Posted February 26, 2012 A lot of times i dont have my Saiga loaded. I do have a .357 revolver on bedside table and .40 w/streamlight right beneath it. Unload the revolver then get any more! Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted March 3, 2012 Report Share Posted March 3, 2012 While this isn't the first topic along these lines I'll chip in my choice. I live in an apartment with neighbors. OOb punches though too many walls. FBI and independant tests give best manstopping ratings to #1Buck with a very close second to #4B. #4b punches slightly less deep and is easier to get. I used to use 3" #4B, but I did some speed drills and found I really could get on to the follow up quicker with 2 3/4" so I swithched. Either is instant lethality. So, I have either a SGM 12 or 10 rounder in one by my bed, and another with an SGM 8 in the cabinet. I would rather have a promag 12 rd drum in the rock n' lock. I would obviously trust a factory 8 as well, and probably AGPs if I had them. I would also trust MD 20, and Keep on shooting 5s . There are more right answers than wrong. I would not trust promag. I keep the bolt locked open, safety off. I can grab it in one smooth motion. I've been storing them loaded at least as often as not, and the 12 has always been kept loaded. They are all still working fine after about 4 years. I'm not too worried about the ammo making me look like a maniac. A jury will be able to see me for what I am. If they are the sort to think I am a villain for having a scary gun, then any gun is scary enough to push them over the edge. No one who's ever been in a fire fight complained about having too much ammo or too many second chances. I don't ever expect to use my gun in a self defense scenario, but for pest control I have always appreciated having a follow up. Even my brief experience working in the paperwork department of a jail and for the prosecutor's office made me more paranoid than I would have ever expected. A lot more bad stuff happens than makes the news. Most of it is to bad people. A surprising amount bleeds over to others by mistake as much as anything. I don't think 4 or 5 murderous gang members or wackos is absurd. I've worked through case files of stuff like that. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
saltydecimator 482 Posted March 3, 2012 Report Share Posted March 3, 2012 bohound is on point on this....no judge, i need a no knock wardant cause they might flush the coke. WHO CARES!!!! Drugs are only illegal cause the CIA needs to be able to covertly fund their secret wars and politicians and friends make too much on incarcerating folks... in the last 6 months i have heard of many no knock warrant issues.... _AZ marine getting shot 60x's _friend at works son that got shot reaching in his couch as cops kicked in door. my theory is if i hear noises i grab my gun and come down stairs with it. if you hesitate you die, so i am slinging lead no matter who is in my house...chances are if its "law enforcement" they are gonna shoot me anyways cause of the gun in my hands... so my questions are 1-if izzy cant deburr a hole in a gas port, how could they make a decent plastic mag? i feel they ARE generally reliable (factory mags) , but i dont see why we discount the USA made mags (if they have been tested for reliability in your gun ) 2- surefire mags arent good for 3" correct? are promag 10s rated for 3"? 3- fine i drank the koolaid, how much are I-8's gonna cost me when rusmil has em? Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted March 3, 2012 Report Share Posted March 3, 2012 1-if izzy cant deburr a hole in a gas port, how could they make a decent plastic mag? i feel they ARE generally reliable (factory mags) , but i dont see why we discount the USA made mags (if they have been tested for reliability in your gun ) -- Right. Everyone who has them loves them. I still bet if they were as common here as the other brands we would start seeing people with issues. 2- surefire mags arent good for 3" correct? are promag 10s rated for 3"? I've only heard of a couple problems with 3" shells in the 12 round model. I have mot heard of problems with 8 or 10 shot SGM. Also the only reports of problems with SGM were early models years ago. The have changed the shape of the front lug at least once since then. Link to post Share on other sites
The_Caged_Bird 474 Posted March 4, 2012 Report Share Posted March 4, 2012 I had a Surefire 12 rounder break a front tab and fall out of my weapon while shooting slugs. I won't own another one but let me tell you how it broke. I had been running drum dump after drum dump with the weapon. I probably ran three hundred rounds of bird shot through it. While it was still warm after a twenty round drum dump and a 12 round stick dump immediately after, I adjusted the V-plug to the #2 setting and began loading slugs into the stick mag. When I fired, the bolt didn't move at all, this was because the lead and plastic that had gathered in the gas block, when I turned the plug to change settings, I basically scraped that shit over my ports. While I loaded the mag and casually spoke with my friend, that shit cooled off and hardened. I didn't realize this and tried changing settings, on the third round, with the gas system completely sealed off, the front tab on the mag broke. I don't blame the mag. I have chosen AGP, only because I can remove the screws and work on the mag if need be. That is the only reason for my choice. Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted March 4, 2012 Report Share Posted March 4, 2012 Interesting. How old was your mag? Link to post Share on other sites
The_Caged_Bird 474 Posted March 4, 2012 Report Share Posted March 4, 2012 Not too sure, I bought it in '09, shortly after I purchased the weapon. It actually held 13 rounds if that helps. Thing is though, I don't think any large capacity polymer mag can take too many rounds of magnum slugs with the gas system essentially shut off. I'm sure an AGP or any other 10+ round mag would break under that kind of punishment (probably the reason why the Izzy only holds 8). I sure know that my shoulder couldn't take it. These things kick like mules when the gas is off! Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted March 8, 2012 Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 interesting. I bought mine in 08, so yours is probably not the first run. they can all hold 13, but you are over compressing the spring, and there is no room for the shell to move if you are loading on a closed bolt. It may be putting extra stress on the feedlips. I used mine for a while and ran about 40 3" shells with no problems. I don't know if it ever would shear the front lug because after that I ground the lug off and it is now supported by a magwell. If I remember correctly the other two failures were shooting 3" shells in very cold winter, so possibly the weather was making the plastic more brittle. AGPs have some steel reinforcement like the Russians, so their tab is probably a little stronger. Link to post Share on other sites
Gene 5.6 1 Posted March 8, 2012 Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 Factory 5 round mag with Centurion Buck and ball. Same. But good luck getting that ball to hit anything accurately past 25 yards. Luckily my house at it's longest length is shorter then 15. I have 20 5 rounders strategically placed around the house in certain key points to where I can hunker down and hold back any would-be intruder (that includes an act of mistaken house/identity by LEO) If it ever gets REALLY bad I have two 20 round magazines in my bedroom which is at the furthest back corner of my home. At that point it's game on and good luck trying to get past my door. Unless you have a sniper perched on my neighbors roof with a means of seeing heat signature through my wall. Then I'm fucked regardless. Link to post Share on other sites
The_Caged_Bird 474 Posted March 8, 2012 Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 Factory 5 round mag with Centurion Buck and ball. Same. But good luck getting that ball to hit anything accurately past 25 yards. Luckily my house at it's longest length is shorter then 15. I have 20 5 rounders strategically placed around the house in certain key points to where I can hunker down and hold back any would-be intruder (that includes an act of mistaken house/identity by LEO) If it ever gets REALLY bad I have two 20 round magazines in my bedroom which is at the furthest back corner of my home. At that point it's game on and good luck trying to get past my door. Unless you have a sniper perched on my neighbors roof with a means of seeing heat signature through my wall. Then I'm fucked regardless. Hide behind a large pane of glass, thermal imaging can't see through glass... Link to post Share on other sites
Uwishucould158 4 Posted March 12, 2012 Report Share Posted March 12, 2012 Full promag 10rd last 3 rounds in mag are rifled slugs in the s12 boot closed no rounds in the bolt just because I'm hoping the sound alone will deter someone for continuing Link to post Share on other sites
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