accuracy

[sndman762 0]

i looked at my manual it says 4 shots 124mm spread at 100m what is that in inches and is that the norm for these rifles, also what twist does this have ive read they come in 1in7 1in8 and 1in9

[Alexc.s. 25]

4.88 inches, barrels are commonly being called 1 in 9.5. The recorded spread at 100m means little, it's done to check if it works more then the weapons accuracy.

[Vais01 3]

The factory data is almost worthless. My Saiga groups 3in at 50yds with irons and thats all 30 rounds. A 5 shot group will trips an average of 1.75in to 2in. Practical accuracy is the name of the game there. Don't expect Remington 700 results but don't expect a shotgun pattern either.

Just keep them slow and steady and a group will form on its own.

[josey88 21]

Well ... I cannot compare with Remington or Savage results , but my Saiga .223 with 20" barrel does 1/2 moa at 50 yards all day long with regular Wolf 75gr ammo and 1-1/2 to 2 moa at 100 yards , without any problems . The factory spread says 72 mms . Perhaps the length of the barrel is helping on the accuracy . I can say that it is almost on a pair with my Ar-15 that has a 1 to 7 rifling barrel .The Saiga has a 1 to 9 and the barrel is the thicker .591" . Both have very good scopes mounted . This data is from my last trip to the range , two weeks ago . I will post pics of the targets with the shooting results next time .

Edited October 23, 2011 by josey88

[mancat 2,368]

As others have said before the acceptance test is mostly about function, and doesn't represent your real world accuracy. I don't know for sure what sort of rig is used to bench test the rifle, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's just a couple of shaped blocks with carpet cover. I doubt the action is being locked into a machine bench in any way.

[Mike38 26]

Well ... I cannot compare with Remington or Savage results , but my Saiga .223 with 20" barrel does 1/2 moa at 50 yards all day long with regular Wolf 75gr ammo and 1-1/2 to 2 moa at 100 yards , without any problems . The factory spread says 72 mms . Perhaps the length of the barrel is helping on the accuracy . I can say that it is almost on a pair with my Ar-15 that has a 1 to 7 rifling barrel .The Saiga has a 1 to 9 and the barrel is the thicker .591" . Both have very good scopes mounted . This data is from my last trip to the range , two weeks ago . I will post pics of the targets with the shooting results next time .

 

 

I think you may be getting your terminology mixed up here. 0.5 minute of angle would be 0.26 inch groups at 50 yards, 0.52 inch groups at 100 yards. If you have a Saiga .223 that shoots 0.5 MOA, I will buy it from you for $1000.00 … seriously. There isn’t an AK pattern rifle in the world that shoots that accurately.

 

Google "minute of angle explained". You will figure it out.

 

A one minute of angle rifle will print groups on paper of 1.047 inches at 100 yards. On a dead calm day, no wind at all, that same rifle will print groups on paper of 5.235 inches at 500 yards.

 

Again, there isn't an AK in the world that will shoot that good.

Edited October 23, 2011 by Mike38

[josey88 21]

I meant around 1/2 inch spread group at 50 yards ... Since 1 MOA is 1.047 inch at 100 yards , I divided it in two and came up with 0.5235" , which is about 0.5 MOA or aproximately 1/2 inch, spread out at 50 yards , maybe a few mms more ? At 100 yards it does around 1-1/2 inch or 2 inch or so spread group , which is about 1-1/2 MOA (1.5705") or 2 MOA (2.094") aproximately . That is the kind of accuracy that I get from my Ar-15 and this Saiga is up there with it . I have not tried it at 200 yards since the scope is a 1-4x24 and it is great for up to 100 yards with precision so I don`t think I will . And, no , I don`t plan on sell it , since I already spent around $1000.00 on it , counting the scope and I like this rifle a lot . As I said previously , I will back it up with pics of the targets used , next time I go to the range , perhaps in a couple of weeks . I shot 6-30 mags , so it is 180 rds and the accuracy is consistent . Here it is with my Ar-15 and my VZ-58 on the second pic ... The first is a pic of the target type I was using (so stupid of me, not keeping the used targets ) and I was putting all the rds inside the 5 squares(the 4 ones with the red dot plus the center square ) on the target . The squares measure 1- 1/2" inch long and the rds were touching each other or separated by 1/2 " at the most , inside the squares . I was shooting 10 rds or so at each square . That is outstanding by any Saiga measure . At 100 yards , the group was more open , around 1-1/2 inch or 2 inches spread group . I think that I must be lucky that I got a real nice Saiga ...but the scope helps a lot . The weather was calm , no wind and very hot , around 90 degrees. I haven`t try brass ammo with the Saiga .

Edited October 23, 2011 by josey88

[Mike38 26]

You still don’t have it right. Minute of Angle does not change when the distance from the muzzle to the target changes.

 

MOA is a fixed angle which is 1/60 of a degree. As the distance from the muzzle to the target gets farther, the angle opens.

 

Look at this symbol here ….. < ….. Imagine the left side is the muzzle and the right side is the target. If you increase the distance from the muzzle to the target, the angle does not change. One hundred yards or one hundred miles, the angle is the same. But, the group size of the bullets will get larger the farther away the target is. Again, the angle does not change.

 

In simplified terms, one minute of angle is approximately 0.25 inches at 25 yards, 0.50 inches at 50 yards, 0.75 inches at 75 yards, and 1 inch at 100 yards. No matter the distance, it’s still one minute of angle.

 

In simplified terms, three minutes of angle is approximately 0.75 inches at 25 yards, 1.5 inches at 50 yards, 2.25 inches at 75 yards, and 3 inches at 100 yards. No matter the distance, it’s still three minutes of angle.

 

If you have a Saiga that will punch holes in a paper target that the average group size is one half an inch at 50 yards, you have a one minute of angle rifle. If so, I would like to buy it from you. You have the most accurate Saiga ever made. I believe there has been something like 100 million AK47 pattern rifles made since it’s invention, maybe more? You have a 1 in 100 million. You have the most accurate AK ever made. How much do you want for it?

[josey88 21]

I understand now ... the angle itself doesn`t change , no matter the distance . Well then , I have one in a million Saiga . I was putting 10 rds (Wolf regular , 75gr ) on a square target 1/1/2 inch by 1-1/2 inch at 50 yards and all the rds were inside , in top of each other and some separated by 1/2 inch or so , 10 rds in each square ... I then switched to 100 yards and the spread group opened up to about 1-1/2 inch to 2 inches spread ... consistently . I know that this is AR-15 territory , but that is what it is . Perhaps the group at 50 yards was a couple of mms bigger than 1/2 inch ? I didn`t measured them , but I cut tell that it was very close, one in top of each other , 10 rds inside a one a half inch square , and I shot at least 90 to 100 rds like that , 10 rds to a square , with the occasional runaway shot , but 98% same accuracy . How would you put it , in MOA terms ? 10 rds at 50 yards inside a square one an a half inch by one and a half inch , one in top of the other , repeated many times consistently ... maybe not exactly 1/2 MOA , but impressive nonetheless , if I may say so . At 100 yards , the group opened to around outside the square , so it was around one and half to two inches give or take a couple of mms . This thing is really accurate . The rest of the shots , around 80 rds , were shot at 100 yards . You have given me an idea ... if I ever sell it , I will acompany with a few used targets , to proof and justify the money I will be asking for it . Seriously, I will post pics of the target in a couple of weeks . This is my second time I shoot the rifle . The first time I had to adjust the scope, the mount got loose , the muzzle brake got loose too , the cheek rest fell off and started to rain so they closed the range... horrible day . Second time... perfect . Everything was tight(I drilled and installed a pin on the front sight to hold the muzzle brake correctly with the notch , used Loctite on the scope mount screws , drilled and tapped the cheek rest the way it was suppose to),accurate and I had a great time . I should mention that I wanted to have the option of a bayonet, so instead the replacing the FSB , I had the barrel threaded for a muzzle brake and I installed an AR bayo clamp behind the front sight , modified a little to fit the russian bayonet . Perhaps ... I am stretching it here ... the weight of the clamp is somehow balancing the 20 inches long barrel perfectly and between the muzzle brake and the clamp , it makes for the unusual accuracy... whatever it is , I am happy .

Edited October 23, 2011 by josey88

[Red Star 38]

'A one minute of angle rifle will print groups on paper of 1.047 inches at 100 yards. On a dead calm day, no wind at all, that same rifle will print groups on paper of 5.235 inches at 500 yards.

 

Again, there isn't an AK in the world that will shoot that good.'

 

Saw this thread and found it interesting.

 

First off, my Saiga is in 7.62x39. It has a 20 inch barrel, and has not had the trigger group moved forward. NO mods at all to the factory trigger group.

 

It can do this (see attached pic)

 

that is a 6 inch shoot n see target, mounted at 103 yards (103 yards from muzzle to target, as verified by laser range finder)

 

When you look at the pic, the distance between the green lines is 3 inches (radius of the target), each pink circle is 1 inch in diameter. Look at grouping 2, as highlighted by the oval orange region; I was sighting in the rifle for new golden tiger rounds that I recently got. Group 2 was my best group of the day.

 

when i superimpose one of the pink 1 inch circles from POI to POI across the group, it leaves 1 inch at 103 yards. That is SLIGHTLY under 1 MOA. 6 rounds in an inch, at an outdoor range.

 

If i do my part, the rifle will shoot this all day long. bear in mind that this is the 7.62 round, not the .223 (which is a little more accurate)

 

there is such a thing as a MOA AK, and i am the proud owner of one

 

This leads me to believe that if I have one, there are lots of others out there, and as i have not been shooting for very long (maybe a year and a half, perhaps two), there are other folks who can do far better than I.

 

Hope some photo evidence helps in the debate

[Red Star 38]

and just to throw fuel on this fire, here is a sub-MOA group, fired from the same rifle that i described above, by my brother (who is a significantly better shot than I)

 

thats 3 rounds at a hundred yards, using IRON SIGHTS, all in the space of less than a penny.

[joek4061 6]

and just to throw fuel on this fire, here is a sub-MOA group, fired from the same rifle that i described above, by my brother (who is a significantly better shot than I)

 

thats 3 rounds at a hundred yards, using IRON SIGHTS, all in the space of less than a penny.

 

That is pretty darn impressive!

[Red Star 38]

am still stung by the fact he out shot me with my own rifle >( grrrr......