Inserting Magazines...

[CGuns 3]

This is interesting.

 

I cannot insert a fully loaded magazine into my Saiga.

 

I have to hold the bolt open to insert the mag and for it to strip off the first round.

 

What gives, or is this standard operating procedure?

 

Thanks, CGuns

[olderandslower 0]

This is interesting.

 

I cannot insert a fully loaded magazine into my Saiga.

 

I have to hold the bolt open to insert the mag and for it to strip off the first round.

 

What gives, or is this standard operating procedure?

 

Thanks, CGuns

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Buy some "shorty" shotgun shells (they are about two inches long). Put the shorty on top, insertion with bolt closed is much easier. (In your case it will make it possible.)

Edited August 5, 2005 by olderandslower

[McUZI 1]

I do, yes.

Apparently, Wakal knows of some process where you can relieve material off the bolt so this isn't required, but I have yet to see detailed instructions of the process.

[G O B 3,516]

I hold my bolt open for mag changes. I was lucky enough to get one of Makc's BHO's when the Saiga-12 site was open, but for fast changes I hold the bolt open with my right thumb.

 

 

G O B

[topmaul 42]

CG what kind of mags are we talking about here 5 or 8 rd? The general opinion on mag loading Lock the bolt back with one of those Swift Safety levers or take a dremel tool and cut your own. When you fire your last round Lock the bolt open and switch mags you can do this really fast and if you plan on locking the bolt back you might as well put 9 rounds in it.

[acetomatoco 0]

Five 2 3/4 rds in a 5 rd mag will load on a closed bolt.

[Veen 0]

Five 2 3/4 rds in a 5 rd mag will load on a closed bolt.

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I just forced a mag full of 3"s in too, but it was a REALLY tight fit. As in, it'd be easier and faster to just hold the bolt open. I really do wish that I could take just a bit of material from the bolt to make it easier, though, without compromising structural integrity or functionality of the bolt.

 

I could slap a new mag in and charge it much quicker than pulling the bolt back with my right hand, jamming the butt of my gun against my thigh to hold it, hitting the BHO lever with my left hand, then loading a new magazine and releasing the bolt.

 

There's GOT to be an easier way to do a quick reload with these things, right?

[acetomatoco 0]

I have found it a little easier to insert the mag if I:

Put the the mag up into the magwell close to the front tab.

Press the mag upward slightly to compress the shells.

Then slide it forward slightly to engage the front tab into its pocket.

Now rock the mag into position and lock the rear tab.

 

It seems a little more difficult when I try to engage the front tab first without compressing the shells:

The front top corner of the top shell strikes the bolt at a poor angle and pushes the shell backwards instead of down.

 

That Saiga video where the guy reloads his Saiga faster than the guy with the pump shotgun is really something. He has no trouble at all and reloads twice I believe.

 

Edit,Found Saiga Video,Reloading

http://www.assegaitrading.co.za/firearms_saiga_ak47.htm

Edited August 6, 2005 by acetomatoco

[DaGroaner 2]

Edited August 6, 2005 by DaGroaner

[kmoore 3]

I have found it a little easier to insert the mag if I:

Put the the mag up into the magwell close to the front tab.

Press the mag upward  slightly to compress the shells.

Then slide it forward slightly to engage the front tab into its pocket.

Now rock the mag into position and lock the rear tab.

 

It seems a little more difficult when I try to engage the front tab first without compressing the shells:

The front top corner of the top shell strikes the bolt at a poor angle and pushes the shell backwards instead of down.

 

That Saiga video where the guy reloads his Saiga faster than the guy with the pump shotgun is really something. He has no trouble at all and reloads twice I believe.

 

Edit,Found Saiga Video,Reloading

http://www.assegaitrading.co.za/firearms_saiga_ak47.htm

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, that is a very slick mag change, but he might have been loading a partial. He shucks a live round out, then shoots 3, then he's done. A downloaded mag is much easier to load.

[stokstad 4]

I don't know about 8 rounders but my 5 rounder goes in without a hitch fully loaded. I must be doing something right I guess

[kmoore 3]

I don't know about 8 rounders but my 5 rounder goes in without a hitch fully loaded. I must be doing something right I guess

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

8 rounders with 8 = no problem

8 rounders with 9 must be loaded with bolt open.

[topmaul 42]

I agree with nine lock it back other wise you can lock it or not does matter.

Edited August 7, 2005 by topmaul

[ForGreatJustice 1]

I agree with the "lock it back" philosophy. It's certainly possible to load both 5 and 8 rounders on a closed bolt with 2.75" shells. However, you have be careful to apply pressure and rotate properly, and this is VERY easy to fumble under combat stress (in my opinion...you may run into some Team Saiga 3-gunners who say its easy as pie).

 

Locking the bolt back, while slower, is more reliable under stress. Even though I have a notched safety (and am looking to get a BHO catch), I still open my bolt by tucking the stock under my strong armpit, grasping the charging handle with my right fingers, and pulling back on it until I can insert my right thumb into the trigger guard to hold the bolt open. Then I insert the fresh mag with my left hand, and release the bolt handle to regain my firing grip (and thereby chamering a round).

 

This method works regardless of whether you have a notched safety, or BHO, or 9 rounds crammed in an 8 rounder. You can do it on the move without kneeling or cover, and it is only a little bit slower. In addition, if you lose your head and try to do it while using a conventional AK, you don't really lose anything.

[Salmonaxe 0]

One of the fastest (and probably goofiest looking) ways I've found to load a fresh magazine and also maintain a good cheek weld is to:

 

1) Make sure you have a good cheekweld and the butt is placed firmly in your shoulder.

 

2) Maintain a good grip on the forearm with your left hand, then pull and hold open the bolt with your right hand in the way that is strongest for you. (for me it's with my index finger like I'm holding a bicycle handlebar. Specifically at base of my finger and with a closed fist)

 

3) Let go of the forearm with you left hand. (You should have a nice triangle of support between your cheekweld, shoulder and right hand. If not, maybe you'll drop your gun.)

 

4) Use your left hand to release your old mag, then grab a new mag and rock it in.

 

5) Grab the forearm with your left hand and release the bolt with your right hand.

 

6)Grab the pistol grip.

 

7) Rock and Roll!

 

This could work really awesome if you had a Galil style charging handle.

 

Also,

 

I've found that when trying to load mags on a closed bolt, being as choked up to the top of the mag will help with indexing the mag but not with leverage. So if you are having problems with inserting the magazine, grab farther down. Though too far down and you might not be able to index it just right.

 

No matter what, mag changes with a Saiga 12 is strenuous. So a BHO is nice for laid-back shooting since it can add extra steps. (dependant on your technique)

 

Just my two cents.

 

*BTW, I love that saiga video. The funny space suit and that kick ass van, all to the top gun music. Classic! Russians are too funny.

Edited August 7, 2005 by Salmonaxe

[topmaul 42]

I like the idea of clinching two eights together, I shoot left handed but do everything else right handed. So what I do is start with the left side mag loaded in the gun when it's empty I just lock the bolt and switch mags with my right hand . I think if you right handed shooters practice with your left hand I would load the right hand mag loaded and switch to the left hand mag. This will really speed up the precess.

 

Just pick a technique and practice if it does not work for you try something else I remember all the different ways I tried before I settled on my current method.

 

I still like my chinched 5 rounders because they are a pretty fast 11 rounds. I put one in the pipe then load the left hand mag fire five leaving the sixth then switch mags leaving the bolt closed. Using this method you have to count. Or pick your first 5 targets then do the switch.

[stimpsonjcat 0]

I do, yes.

Apparently, Wakal knows of some process where you can relieve material off the bolt so this isn't required, but I have yet to see detailed instructions of the process.

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Wow, took longer than I would have thought to dind this link