My Vepr-12 VPO-205-00 modification

[Sergii 142]

Papa and Sergii,

 

Thanks again for all your insight. Very interesting and exciting news. I really hope the imports do not have the angled receiver. The other hope is that the new importer will be able to keep the supply of Russian magwell mags up to a decent level.

 

Why not enjoy a corner?

Aesthetically? Or are there technical problems?

[sunnybean 939]

I would want to put a 100 series side folder on it...

[physicsnerd 139]

Papa and Sergii,

 

Thanks again for all your insight. Very interesting and exciting news. I really hope the imports do not have the angled receiver. The other hope is that the new importer will be able to keep the supply of Russian magwell mags up to a decent level.

 

sunnybean, check out this thread as there is a little more information stateside to go along with what we're getting from the Russians.

 

http://forum.saiga-1...t-announcement/

 

 

Papa and Sergii,

 

Thanks again for all your insight. Very interesting and exciting news. I really hope the imports do not have the angled receiver. The other hope is that the new importer will be able to keep the supply of Russian magwell mags up to a decent level.

 

Why not enjoy a corner?

Aesthetically? Or are there technical problems?

 

I don't think it is a technical issue but my sense is that most American shooters like the square cut receiver because it is easier to make them 922r compliant in order to use magazines with greater than 5 capacity, pistol grips, etc.

 

Instead of separate pistol grips and buttstocks, US made furniture for this would look a lot like the Russian thumbhole stocks. Since there are a lot more options for the former rather than the latter it makes them more desirable as less work is needed to add the desired furniture (no welding, extra blocks, etc.).

Edited October 28, 2011 by physicsnerd

[sunnybean 939]

Physicsnerd,

 

Thanks for the link! Totally missed that one. Slant cuts, damn. I guess a 100 folder in the 030 and a block and AR stock on the Verp. I'm excited these are coming in! Hmmmm, a seventh AK 12 gauge... Well, if I have to. LOL!

Edited October 28, 2011 by sunnybean

[yooper14.5 84]

Papa and Sergii,

 

Thanks again for all your insight. Very interesting and exciting news. I really hope the imports do not have the angled receiver. The other hope is that the new importer will be able to keep the supply of Russian magwell mags up to a decent level.

 

Why not enjoy a corner?

Aesthetically? Or are there technical problems?

 

Technical problems. All our stocks on the market are meant for a traditional flat ended receiver.

[Sergii 142]

Papa and Sergii,

 

Thanks again for all your insight. Very interesting and exciting news. I really hope the imports do not have the angled receiver. The other hope is that the new importer will be able to keep the supply of Russian magwell mags up to a decent level.

 

Why not enjoy a corner?

Aesthetically? Or are there technical problems?

 

Technical problems. All our stocks on the market are meant for a traditional flat ended receiver.

 

Technical problems can be solved with an adapter: http://riflestocks.c.../product33.html Pistol Grip set with no problems.

I got it from the U.S.

 

 

Do you have a problem with it is not. It is possible to put on any buttstock.

[sunnybean 939]

Sergii,

 

Yes that adapter would work for some stocks. Even then, the preferred receiver is going to be a square back. The slant cut won't allow for this...

 

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?app=core&module=attach&section=attach&attach_rel_module=post&attach_id=53181

[PapaZorro 401]

Posted this topic here with more pictures .

[steveb327 13]

First of all, thank you for such a great report and for the added information. Very well presented.

 

My question is, of the three brakes you cited, which did the most for reducing muzzle rise for you?

 

(1) "Polygon Muzzle brake .... The muzzle brake was improve a little bit like it was made on Vsevolod Ilyns Polygon Muzzle brake.....;

(2) "Guns Tuning Laboratories Muzzle Brake PSH-2....; and,

(3) "Muzzle Brake GK-01 designed by IPSC shooter Mr.Vselolod Ilyn and made by VYATSKIEPOLYANY MACHINE BULDING PLANT(Molot)."

 

My understanding is that it's very hard to do on a shotgun, due to low pressures, I believe. I'd be interested in reading more on that, or what benefits each one provided.

 

Thanks.

[Sergii 142]

Of these, the most effective GK-01.

1.2 - very similar to each other.

2 - a modern version 1.

3 - is a completely new design, the first

sample was produced in December

2010.

All three of muzzle brakes can be found

here: http://sergii-guns-ru.livejournal.com/66023.html

[PapaZorro 401]

Of these, the most effective GK-01. 1.2 - very similar to each other. 2 - a modern version 1. 3 - is a completely new design, the first sample was produced in December 2010. All three of muzzle brakes can be found here: <a class="bbc_url" href="http://sergii-guns-ru.livejournal.com/66023.html" rel="nofollow external" title="External link">http://sergii-guns-r....com/66023.html</a>

 

I've just to add a little bit.

 

All of them 1,2,3 are made on the same idea, now well known as "Polygon Muzzle Brake-compensator", that was suggested by Russian IPSC shooter Efimov Eugeny Borisovich. Chief Constructor of VYATSKIEPOLYANY MACHINE BULDING PLANT(Molot) Mr. Sergey Urzhumtsev told me that first few samples of them was made by Molot and one still used during test-shootings. Then production of Efimov design Muzzle brake was moved to "Polygon" LLC in Chelyabinsk.

 

I talked to the owner & Technical Director of "Guns Tuning Laboratories" about their PSH-2 around one and half years ago. Their main business is to repair Trucks engines & transmissions, making Muzzle-brakes is a kind of hobby due to the Owner has Saiga-12 and likes shooting. They told that "Polygon" design was taken for their PSH-2 but they used Computer based Math models for the Hot Gases for their design, they recalculated the volumes of the first and the second chambers, increased the "window" in the second chamber & improved the "gills" as in number as in geometry making them like nozzles. As everybody knows nozzle are more effective then standard outlet.

 

PHS-2 with nozzle style "Gills"

 

 

Gills of "Polygon" & "GK-01" has similar standard outlet geometry

 

If we talk about GK-01, this Muzzle Brake-compensator does not have a completely new design, but has the most improved "Polygon" design, like Russian T-34 tank is the most improved version of American Christy tank. Using his huge IPSC practice experience for his design, Ilyn used first chamber of Polygon adding 10 gills like on PSH-01 instead of 8 on Polygon & redesign himself the second chamber of Polygon, that now has a completely new design.

 

There is one of Efimovs design Muzzle brake-comensator.

 

Edited November 18, 2011 by PapaZorro

[steveb327 13]

Spasiba, Segii and PappaZorro! I appreciate all the design information.

 

Segeii, thank you for the link to your videos of the GK-01 in use. Would seem to be fine for a competition gun, but I think it's too large for any other purpose. The same is true for many of the American designs. The smaller PSH-2 appears to be more manageable. Are there any videos of it in use? Sorry, I couldn't translate Russian to find out for myself (I wasted 11 years learning French!).

 

The pics that were posted of the PSH-2 showed no muzzle rise at all, but it's hard to be sure. That's the one I'm leaning toward.

[PapaZorro 401]

 

The smaller PSH-2 appears to be more manageable. Are there any videos of it in use? Sorry, I couldn't translate Russian to find out for myself (I wasted 11 years learning French!).

 

 

This is Sergii's video of use PSH-2

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mewRyo5qo0Q&feature=player_detailpage#t=27s

Edited November 19, 2011 by PapaZorro

[steveb327 13]

There seems to be some reduction in muzzle rise, but I'm not sure if it's enough to justify the cost. We'll see how the price drops if someone starts importing them. Thanks, again.

[PapaZorro 401]

There seems to be some reduction in muzzle rise, but I'm not sure if it's enough to justify the cost. We'll see how the price drops if someone starts importing them. Thanks, again.

There is little muzzle rise up on the video, but I don't know Americans Muzzle break that works even similar or better. I'm not realy sure that PSH-2 will be mass import to US, due to very small production of them in Russia. The Guns Tuning Laboratories does not made enough PHS-2 even to satisfy domestic demand.

Edited November 19, 2011 by PapaZorro

[PapaZorro 401]

For US customers Legion sells, imported by AQUILA standard V12 model VPO-205-00 (430 mm = 16,92" BBL) as is sell in Russia and described in this topic, except welded muzzle attach that increase BBL to 19" and welded ring on the release lever. Assuming that, if I'm right this V12 GB (holes in BBL) is optimized for 430 mm, good news for guys who going convert it to SBS V12 (just to remove pinned muzzle device). For shorter BBL V12 another configuration of GB holes is needed.

This model, is easiest way to restore RUSSIAN ORIGINAL VEPR-12 VPO-205-00 model from the box, only needs:

1) remove pinned muzzle device

2) remove welded ring on the release lever

3) attach Original Molot FH (18,5 mm ID)

On the left side of the receiver we see pained Molot marks in Russian: ВП, ГИС, 13, П

On the right side of the receiver we see pained Molot marks in Russian: П О, Сделано в России, ВЕПРЬ-12 Молот

Meanings are here

That marks are made for local Russian market , IMO these V12 was not made for US as WPA models, that has export Molot marks in English. I suppose these V12 also has Russian marks on BBL under Upper Handguard/Gas Tube and Buttstock Clamp (#3 on the following diagram)

Detailed Molot Vepr-12 VPO-205-00 Diagram

[ec4321 113]

PZ -

 

I posted this question in the legion thread as well - do you suspect this has the metal rail on the dust cover?

 

I am really interested in this if these things turn out to be right. Legion is doing really well with this build out. If it does have a metal dust cover, the only other thing I would like in the future would be the crossbolt safety.

[setlab 11]

I know this is a REALLY old topic, but since it's back up to the top and we can get Veprs now....

 

Does anyone know if we can get this M4 stock adapter in the US?

 

[ec4321 113]

I am thinking about having a buffer tube cut and welded directly to the folding mech on a vepr. Save even more room, and the need to import the m4 folding mech.

[Jeluvsk 58]

PZ -

 

you suspect this has the metal rail on the dust cover?

 

comparing the V12 Legion has to mine it appears to be the same polymer rail

[PapaZorro 401]

PZ -

 

I posted this question in the legion thread as well - do you suspect this has the metal rail on the dust cover?

 

 

 

PZ -

 

you suspect this has the metal rail on the dust cover?

 

comparing the V12 Legion has to mine it appears to be the same polymer rail

My V12 as V12 that are sell by Legion has Standard polymer rail (with steel insert) on the DC. Molot does made Al rails in mass production models. AFAIK this is option for Custom Edition models by now.

[Jeluvsk 58]

Has anyone bought one of the $1399 legions?

[scrub 0]

I was also wondering if anybody has the m4 adapter for the folding stock.I would hate, make that would not cut up the original folding mechanism unless you could buy those to modify.

[kitchengunsmith433 1]

Has anyone bought one of the $1399 legions?

I got one, finally got around to taking it to the range today. Went with some slugs, some buck shot, and some bird shot # 6, 7, and 8. It cycled everything like a champ even when I decided to mix and match shells. Overall I'm very pleased, works as good if not better than my broken in and modified 433. I was only kind of annoyed at people asking me questions about it every 15 minutes, it's like let me shoot for crying out loud. After next paycheck I'm going to have a gunsmith replace the brake for me and I'll take more pics once I have it the way I want it.

[Kingchedr 12]

Owning both a v12 and 030 I'd say they're both equal as far as quality goes they both handle light loads extremely well right out of the box and IMHO this guy went a little overboard with the twister puck and the polishing of rails and bolt