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M10 22lr Ak

22lr AK M10

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#1 AZG

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Posted 24 October 2011 - 05:23 PM

Posted Image
Ive seen this up for sale on the centerfire site and was wondering if anyone has any data on this or has one

Why arent there Saiga 22's? I see them on RusMili website all the time but not for importation.

Are there any pros/cons?

Mag interchangeability?

Ive been wanting one of these but can only find a tiny bit of info on them.

Thanks

AZG

Edited by AZG, 24 October 2011 - 05:26 PM.

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#2 Shandlanos

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Posted 24 October 2011 - 06:51 PM

I called Centerfire when I first noticed these on the site, and the sales people were unable to tell me if it is an imported Romanian rifle, or something chopped together by century. They did confirm that they use the same magazines as the WASR-22. They were unable to tell me if the barrel was threaded 1/2x28, but it's probably a safe bet because of the tapco muzzle device.

Edited to remove grammatical error.

Edited by Shandlanos, 25 October 2011 - 07:22 AM.

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#3 AZG

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Posted 24 October 2011 - 11:30 PM

I called Centerfire when I first noticed these on the site, and they sales people were unable to tell me if it is an imported Romanian rifle, or something chopped together by century. They did confirm that they use the same magazines as the WASR-22. They were unable to tell me if the barrel was threaded 1/2x28, but it's probably a safe bet because of the tapco muzzle device.


Thanks for the info! I had similar concerns about the mags and threading. Read on a different forum that the fsgb is non functional and is direct blowback. Not sure what that is but I've got and idea. Not sure if it's true but sounds right aswell. I'm curious if it's all steel receiver and boltcarrier and all or what. I'm hoping so. It would be nice to get saiga 22's in
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#4 ARMOR

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 09:19 AM

I called Centerfire when I first noticed these on the site, and they sales people were unable to tell me if it is an imported Romanian rifle, or something chopped together by century. They did confirm that they use the same magazines as the WASR-22. They were unable to tell me if the barrel was threaded 1/2x28, but it's probably a safe bet because of the tapco muzzle device.


Thanks for the info! I had similar concerns about the mags and threading. Read on a different forum that the fsgb is non functional and is direct blowback. Not sure what that is but I've got and idea. Not sure if it's true but sounds right aswell. I'm curious if it's all steel receiver and boltcarrier and all or what. I'm hoping so. It would be nice to get saiga 22's in

The non functional fsgb means that no gas port is drilled into the barrel. (It's a blow back gun)
P.S. Black Dog makes a 30 round mag for a WASR 22

Edited by ARMOR, 25 October 2011 - 09:19 AM.

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#5 AZG

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 09:49 AM


I called Centerfire when I first noticed these on the site, and they sales people were unable to tell me if it is an imported Romanian rifle, or something chopped together by century. They did confirm that they use the same magazines as the WASR-22. They were unable to tell me if the barrel was threaded 1/2x28, but it's probably a safe bet because of the tapco muzzle device.


Thanks for the info! I had similar concerns about the mags and threading. Read on a different forum that the fsgb is non functional and is direct blowback. Not sure what that is but I've got and idea. Not sure if it's true but sounds right aswell. I'm curious if it's all steel receiver and boltcarrier and all or what. I'm hoping so. It would be nice to get saiga 22's in

The non functional fsgb means that no gas port is drilled into the barrel. (It's a blow back gun)
P.S. Black Dog makes a 30 round mag for a WASR 22


Thanks. That's what I thought. Wish I could pick one up but alas, I'm broke. Maybe one day. Hopefully they'll start importing saiga 22s with folding skeleton stock by the time I'm making $ again. That would be awesome!

Edited by AZG, 25 October 2011 - 09:50 AM.

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#6 ARMOR

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 10:35 AM



I called Centerfire when I first noticed these on the site, and they sales people were unable to tell me if it is an imported Romanian rifle, or something chopped together by century. They did confirm that they use the same magazines as the WASR-22. They were unable to tell me if the barrel was threaded 1/2x28, but it's probably a safe bet because of the tapco muzzle device.


Thanks for the info! I had similar concerns about the mags and threading. Read on a different forum that the fsgb is non functional and is direct blowback. Not sure what that is but I've got and idea. Not sure if it's true but sounds right aswell. I'm curious if it's all steel receiver and boltcarrier and all or what. I'm hoping so. It would be nice to get saiga 22's in

The non functional fsgb means that no gas port is drilled into the barrel. (It's a blow back gun)
P.S. Black Dog makes a 30 round mag for a WASR 22


Thanks. That's what I thought. Wish I could pick one up but alas, I'm broke. Maybe one day. Hopefully they'll start importing saiga 22s with folding skeleton stock by the time I'm making $ again. That would be awesome!

I might pick one up? I told my buddy Dave Harris if I could come up with a .22 AK weapon, I'd take some of his A and D parts and make a 165 round .22 AK. I have a NIB Ceiner .22 AK setup here. I was going to do this setup on the ZK-SD rifle from RJF, but it still hasn't come yet and the recoil rod from the Ceiner conversion doesn't fit my Yugo M92.
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#7 BuffetDestroyer

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Posted 27 October 2011 - 02:43 PM

At $420, I would much rather have a Draco or Saiga .308. Hopefully the Saiga's are inexpensive or have hard to find features like the folding stocks.

Edited by BuffetDestroyer, 27 October 2011 - 02:43 PM.

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#8 AZG

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Posted 27 October 2011 - 03:40 PM

At $420, I would much rather have a Draco or Saiga .308. Hopefully the Saiga's are inexpensive or have hard to find features like the folding stocks.

Eta
I already have both Posted Image . I want something cheaper ammo wise but still in an ak platform. have .223, x39, x51 and 12 gauge. the 308 I just sold because I dont have a decent range and I never shoot it + I needed the $. So I want a lil 22 to play around with. I would much rather have a Saiga22 w/folding skeleton stock but nobody is clear on when/if they might come in. So this would be the closest I could get to one for the time being. Dont think Ill do it though. I have a 22lr conversion for my k3b-m4. Its just lacking in certain areas.

Edited by AZG, 27 October 2011 - 03:44 PM.

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#9 rob-cubed

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Posted 27 October 2011 - 06:34 PM

I have a WASR-22, but not one of the newer Romanian imports.

WASR-22s are known for being... finicky. Some people had their extractors blown off in OOB accidents... others got doubling and tripling or had feed or extraction problems. I got one with a few issues which didn't take long to work out and it's now my favorite AK.

I'm eager to hear if the new imports are as quirky as the old batch, but after the bugs are worked out these are *great* little .22 AKs. They feel exactly like the real thing and are pretty much milspec parts aside from the mag, front trunnion, barrel, bolt, and a few other small parts.
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#10 AZG

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Posted 27 October 2011 - 06:47 PM

Thanks for sharing. Ive gotten more info from you in your post than in searching for the past 3days on 7 different forums. I had hope as much. The bugs are to be expected as I had to deal with just as many in my S12. I still want a Saiga22 thoughPosted Image. perhaps ill give in one day and try it out. Just haven't heard enough about them yet.

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#11 scoutjoe

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Posted 30 October 2011 - 01:23 PM

I have a WASR-22, but not one of the newer Romanian imports.

WASR-22s are known for being... finicky. Some people had their extractors blown off in OOB accidents... others got doubling and tripling or had feed or extraction problems. I got one with a few issues which didn't take long to work out and it's now my favorite AK.

I'm eager to hear if the new imports are as quirky as the old batch, but after the bugs are worked out these are *great* little .22 AKs. They feel exactly like the real thing and are pretty much milspec parts aside from the mag, front trunnion, barrel, bolt, and a few other small parts.



Mine was a doubler and tripler.....then i replaced the disconnector spring with a stiffer one out of an AK. Stopped that dead in its tracks. Had to replace the top cover and locktite the extractor tension screw. Feeds great with 8 rnds in a 10 round mag, with 20 in the Black dog machine mags. So..... ya I had a "finicky" one.

I'd be curious to see if these new ones are more reliable but still able to swap furniture and other accessories with the standard AK.

Edited by scoutjoe, 30 October 2011 - 01:24 PM.

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#12 AZG

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Posted 30 October 2011 - 02:05 PM

Thanks scoutjoe. I appreciate you commenting on this. The more info the better

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#13 uzitiger

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Posted 12 November 2011 - 07:06 PM

Looking at the Centerfire Systems website, the AK22 is an Armscor rifle made in the Philippines and with a little work on the wood it can look more like an AK. My friend has one of them and it's reliable and when shouldered it feels like an AK. It's a nice gun to shoot. I like it second to the Ruger 10/22 for a plinker especially with the cost of ammo. I regret not buying a WASR 22 when they were $199 because ammo was cheap in 2005 but the AK22 is a good .22 rifle companion to the AK or Saigas.

Edited by uzitiger, 12 November 2011 - 07:09 PM.

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#14 Shandlanos

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Posted 12 November 2011 - 07:30 PM

Different rifles, Uzi - armscor makes two semi-auto rifles, one of which vaguely cosmetically resembles an AK, the other, an M16. The M10 .22LR is actually a Romanian rifle that largely uses Romanian AK parts, just like a WASR-22.
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#15 ARMOR

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Posted 19 December 2011 - 09:55 AM

Anyone have one of the M10's in .22 yet?
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#16 AZG

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Posted 19 December 2011 - 11:21 AM

Anyone have one of the M10's in .22 yet?

Not me, Ive heard they dont use the wasr22 mags and im not sure there are any spares out there, so im now hesitant to get one.

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#17 ARMOR

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Posted 19 December 2011 - 11:38 AM


Anyone have one of the M10's in .22 yet?

Not me, Ive heard they dont use the wasr22 mags and im not sure there are any spares out there, so im now hesitant to get one.

Damn! That means the Black Dong mags won't work in it?
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#18 AZG

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Posted 19 December 2011 - 11:58 AM



Anyone have one of the M10's in .22 yet?

Not me, Ive heard they dont use the wasr22 mags and im not sure there are any spares out there, so im now hesitant to get one.

Damn! That means the Black Dong mags won't work in it?

yep, that what ive heard.

From another forum:


I was told by CFS that Blackdog magazines will not work in these guns. Does that mean there are no available after market large capacity magazines for these?





and

I live in Colorado and talked to the owner of CFS. I was told, as of now, there are no extra magazines to be had for this rifle. They are in the works with Blackdog magazines on making one that will fit this rifle. I am not sure why the WASR-22 magazines would not work. You'd think the guys in Romania would make the same 22 mag well for this one too.

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#19 ARMOR

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Posted 19 December 2011 - 03:50 PM

Hey AZG,
Would you P.M. me a link to the posts on that forum? I want to make a .22 tower for 165 round drum to work on a .22 AK for my buddy Dave Harris. He makes the .22 drum towers for Uzi's, HK's and AR's. I told him if I could get my hands on a .22 AK system that worked, I'd build a prototype for him. He has been a great friend and I wanted to do this as a thank you for all he has done for me.

Edited by ARMOR, 19 December 2011 - 03:55 PM.

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#20 AZG

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Posted 19 December 2011 - 03:57 PM

Hey AZG,
Would you P.M. me a link to the posts on that forum? I want to make a .22 tower for 165 round drum to work on a .22 AK for my buddy Dave Harris. He makes the .22 drum towers for Uzi's, HK's and AR's. I told him if I could get my hands on a .22 AK system that worked, I'd build a prototype for him. He has been a great friend and I wanted to do this as a thank you for all he has done for me.

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#21 Shandlanos

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Posted 19 December 2011 - 04:05 PM

That sucks. When I called CFS in October, a sales rep had me on hold for about five minutes while she went to find out, and came back telling me confidently that it would take the same magazines as a WASR-22. If I'd ordered a rifle, I'd be pretty pissed off by now.

I did receive my WASR-22 a week or two ago, after having a bunch of work done by a business member. Barrel threaded 1/2x28, new side rail reinstalled and receiver repaired where the previous owner damaged it removing the side rail, extractor work, firing pin work (Romanians apparently use a round cross-section firing pin in the WASR-22, so reliable ignition was a problem in my rifle). Now, it feeds very well - I got one FTF in 150 rounds. The only remaining problem appears to be headspacing. Every single cartridge it fires is slightly out of battery - the walls of the ejected cartridges are bulged just above the rim, and about one in every 20-25 ejected cartridges blows the case wall out right above the rim, which of course results in a FTE. This is using CCI Blazer .22 LR. If I can get that solved, I'll have a very reliable .22LR AK.

Edited by Shandlanos, 19 December 2011 - 04:20 PM.

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#22 ARMOR

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Posted 19 December 2011 - 07:36 PM

Centerfire has no idea if a BlackDod mag will work or not. I called and talked to "Magnus" and told him I'd ship him a new BD mag to try if he returned it.
P.S. AZG thanks for the link. I wanted to sign up for the site, but they don't allow my gmail account and that's all I have. WTF?
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#23 AZG

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Posted 19 December 2011 - 10:30 PM

Centerfire has no idea if a BlackDod mag will work or not. I called and talked to "Magnus" and told him I'd ship him a new BD mag to try if he returned it.
P.S. AZG thanks for the link. I wanted to sign up for the site, but they don't allow my gmail account and that's all I have. WTF?


No problem armor. Hope these mags workout so we can start shooting these son'bitchs. Yeah that place is hard to get into. You need an ISP email. It's a big PITA.

Edited by AZG, 19 December 2011 - 10:34 PM.

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#24 ARMOR

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Posted 20 December 2011 - 01:14 PM

Got in touch with Matt aka turbothis. He is going to come out with a .22 kit that is better than what's on the market. I think I'll wait to see what he makes first.
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#25 AZG

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Posted 20 December 2011 - 01:20 PM

Got in touch with Matt aka turbothis. He is going to come out with a .22 kit that is better than what's on the market. I think I'll wait to see what he makes first.


Don't suppose he gave an eta?

That would be great!

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#26 ARMOR

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Posted 20 December 2011 - 01:28 PM

Well, not really. He said sometime this winter.
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#27 ARMOR

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Posted 22 December 2011 - 12:30 PM

Okay, I have an update on this M10 .22 AK rifle. I talked to 3 people at CGS about it, but Patrick was the most helpful of them all. He has shot it with the factory mags and the BD mags. He told me the BD mags work, but look to sit a hair higher and the BD mags have FTF problems after 3 or 4 rounds, then it might shoot 7 or 8 more before it happens again. They have extra mags for $29.95 each. The bolt doesn't have a spring loaded firing pin and has some of the same problems as the WASR .22. Some will shoot doubles, empty casing will sometimes end up under the dust cover also. I guess out of 28 rifles, 8 might work correctly and the rest have to be worked on before they can be sold. They are talking of not importing them anymore. I offered to look at the problems and come up with a solution, but because I'm not licensed the owner said no. I think I could redesign the carrier to fix this problem, but why spend the money and time to get nothing for it.
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#28 AZG

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Posted 22 December 2011 - 01:05 PM

Damn, thats a bummer. Thanks for researching. Maybe if they decide to stop importing them then they'll drop the price, which is ridiculous in itself being they dont have alot of spare mags that are compatible.

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#29 scoutjoe

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Posted 23 December 2011 - 02:11 PM

Ya with that goofy top cover it wouldn't be able to kick all the empties out, I replaced the top cover on my WASR-22 with a standard AK top cover so the gun had more room to throw empties out instead of back inside the gun
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#30 Shandlanos

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Posted 23 December 2011 - 02:36 PM

I've got mine running very well now - I had it shipped to Tom Cole shortly before his building caught fire. That delayed the work a bit. I've had it for a couple of weeks now, and am satisfied that it is one of the most reliable WASR-22s out there. He reshaped the firing pin from the original round cross-section for more consistent ignition, worked on the extractor and probably the feed ramp (can't recall), repaired the receiver where the previous owner damaged it removing the optics rail, installed a new optics rail, threaded the barrel 1/2" x 28, and refinished the rifle. When I got it, I fitted a standard AK dust cover (fitting involved removing material on the right side of the dust cover where it would have impeded the charging handle), removed the dragunov-style thumbhole stock, installed a pistol grip and Romy folder, and headed to the range.

The rifle feeds and extracts reliably - the only remaining issue appears to be headspacing - every single casing it ejects is substantially swollen just above the rim, and one in about every 25 cartridges blows out the wall of the case just above the rim. Oddly, while this sometimes causes a FTE, it does not always do so, and enough energy is always imparted to stabilize the bullet and send it all the way through the barrel, and the can, without a baffle strike. Is there anything I can do, on my own, to reduce or eliminate the OOB detonation problem? Again, since it's a .22, the OOB detonations are not a big deal - I wear eye protection when I shoot. My big concern is that such a detonation will damage the extractor. I only noticed the first time because I shoot with a can - click, click, click, click, boom! Got my attention.

Edited by Shandlanos, 23 December 2011 - 02:37 PM.

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