S12 w/ MD ARMS V-Plug won't Cycle

[12GH34T 0]

Ok, so heres my deal and setup....

 

i built a S-12 last winter and just got around to test firing her .....the MD ARMS 20 rd mag feeds w/ no issues and so does the stock 5rd mag..... it will not cycle the Federal ammo or the PDX ammo i ran through it... i tried to adjust the MD ARMS V-Plug on all 5 settings and still wont cycle the next round into the chamber or eject the shell with either mag or ammo ... it was CeraKoted so i cleaned the gas tube and barrel really well (or so i thought).... its a really beautiful S-12...i'd appreciate any help or insight... i know i could have the gas tube holes opened up more but i dont think thats necessary...?

 

heres the mods:

 

S-12 Mods:

• CeraKote'd Black Stainless
  
• BCG CeraKote'd Stainless
  
• FCG Moved to Correct Position
  
• CSS Trigger Guard w/
  
• Hogue Grip
  
• Tang Removed- CSS Back-Plate w/ 8.5" Skelteton Stock
  
• MD-Arms 5 Position V-Plug
  
• Go Gun Magnum Puck ***i think this is the problem!!!!!?***
  
• Tromix FCG
  
• E-Tac Brake
  

[corbin 621]

Assuming your ports are clear, I'd look at the points of friction (rails, BCG, hammer face, etc). Of the mods you listed, the puck would be a quick and easy fix.

[D.C.MORRISON 494]

did you try using the factory puck & plug? did you run a bent wire or angle pick through the gas ports?

i use the v-plug and like it. you may need to check carefully that it is aligned properly. have you done any polishing?

[Paulyski 2,227]

Ditch the puc.

I like the CSS Performance Puc & the MD Arms Booster Puc Personally.

 

Clean out the ports with a wire close to the size of the ports.

A paperclip won't cut it unless it's about the size of the ports.

This is half the reason I include the free precision port-gauge/cleaning tools with GlassBolt Reliability System.

 

Also, maybe try profiling the bolt, carrier & hammer to reduce resistance; http://forum.saiga-1...olish-the-bolt/

 

I've tested the V-plug & it works great from my experience.

[evlblkwpnz 3,418]

Did the Cerakote get on the rails and the bearing surfaces of the bolt carrier? If so, remove it from these areas. Less friction is more reliability.

 

I have seen S12s with Duracoat on everything.... rails, BCG, barrel hood, chamber, bore, etc. It sucks that some people posess so little attention to detail. I mean, how hard is it to plug or mask something off? That must be a forgotten concept....

 

ETA: As Pauly stated, It sounds like you may need some friction reduction. I do it to all of mine whether they require it or not.

 

I too have used the V-Plug and it is a fine product. It will not increase the amount of gas getting through your ports and it will not reduce friction in the action (there's your clue). It was merely intended to offer finer adjustment of the gas from the ports into the gas block. Instead of "wide open" or "closed", like the factory plug, there are plenty of intermediate adjustments with the V-Plug.

Edited October 31, 2011 by evlblkwpnz

[DLT 1,646]

Remove your recoil spring and hand cycle it while holding down the trigger so the diconnector holds the hammer and then almost close the bolt. Stand your gun up and release the bolt but not the trigger. If it falls all the way to the trunion, you don't have to worry about anything in the receiver dragging, so go check your gas ports. If it hangs up, examine and Identify the friction points. With me, I had two problems: my bcg was dragging on my axis pin retaining plate, and my gas ports were undersized and misaligned.

[12GH34T 0]

Ditch the puc.

I like the CSS Performance Puc & the MD Arms Booster Puc Personally.

 

Clean out the ports with a wire close to the size of the ports.

A paperclip won't cut it unless it's about the size of the ports.

This is half the reason I include the free precision port-gauge/cleaning tools with GlassBolt Reliability System.

 

Also, maybe try profiling the bolt, carrier & hammer to reduce resistance; http://forum.saiga-1...olish-the-bolt/

 

I've tested the V-plug & it works great from my experience.

 

I did do some bolt work before everything was cerakoted but not much.... i will try to do the polishing and such this week and re-test fire it.... the entire receiver was also coated (inside/out). should i remove any cerakote from the receiver rails as well?

 

Pauly- do you have any BCGs that are already polished you can sell? or does anyone know where i can get a OEM/Stock version and have it polished/polish it myself?

 

i am going to ditch the Magnum Puck and put the stock one in with the V-Plug and run it after i remedy the BCG.

 

Did the Cerakote get on the rails and the bearing surfaces of the bolt carrier? If so, remove it from these areas. Less friction is more reliability.

 

I have seen S12s with Duracoat on everything.... rails, BCG, barrel hood, chamber, bore, etc. It sucks that some people posess so little attention to detail. I mean, how hard is it to plug or mask something off? That must be a forgotten concept....

 

ETA: As Pauly stated, It sounds like you may need some friction reduction. I do it to all of mine whether they require it or not.

 

I too have used the V-Plug and it is a fine product. It will not increase the amount of gas getting through your ports and it will not reduce friction in the action (there's your clue). It was merely intended to offer finer adjustment of the gas from the ports into the gas block. Instead of "wide open" or "closed", like the factory plug, there are plenty of intermediate adjustments with the V-Plug.

 

how can i clean some cerakote out of the spring loaded retaining pin that holds the V-plug in place? it moves and appears to function, but seems like it could be smoother? i think some cerakote or media from blasting may have gotten in there during the process....

 

Remove your recoil spring and hand cycle it while holding down the trigger so the diconnector holds the hammer and then almost close the bolt. Stand your gun up and release the bolt but not the trigger. If it falls all the way to the trunion, you don't have to worry about anything in the receiver dragging, so go check your gas ports. If it hangs up, examine and Identify the friction points. With me, I had two problems: my bcg was dragging on my axis pin retaining plate, and my gas ports were undersized and misaligned.

 

thanks! i am going to try this later and report back....sounds like a good test....

 

thanks alot guys, i appreciate the feedback and help!!

[Bridis 319]

 

how can i clean some cerakote out of the spring loaded retaining pin that holds the V-plug in place? it moves and appears to function, but seems like it could be smoother? i think some cerakote or media from blasting may have gotten in there during the process....

 

 

Remove the front gas block retention pin. Make sure you're holding the spring loaded button down before you pull the pin all the way out or it'll shoot across the room.

[physicsnerd 139]

 

 

i am going to ditch the Magnum Puck and put the stock one in with the V-Plug and run it after i remedy the BCG.

 

 

Why don't you try shooting it with a new puck before doing anything to the BCG? I would not be surprised at all if it suddenly runs 100% or pretty close to it. That would be cheaper and give you more information faster.

[12GH34T 0]

 

 

i am going to ditch the Magnum Puck and put the stock one in with the V-Plug and run it after i remedy the BCG.

 

 

Why don't you try shooting it with a new puck before doing anything to the BCG? I would not be surprised at all if it suddenly runs 100% or pretty close to it. That would be cheaper and give you more information faster.

 

well i prob wont be able to get to the range or up north to where i shoot for sometime so i figuured id try a few of the possibilities.... plus all that cerakote on the bcg cant be all that good?

 

edit: the puck that was in there was the E-TAC Standard TwisterPuc not the Magnum

[Paulyski 2,227]

Ditch the Twister.

I don't want to knock another business's product, but just trust me. It's a poor design.

It lacks its high pressure piston grooves.

 

Use a course dremel abrasive buff & take the coating off of your carrier rails & out of the chamber & barrel hood if it's there.

 

Also, although I'm always looking to buy spare bolts & carriers, there's none out there & if there were it'd be hit & miss if another bolt would just fit right in & work inb your gun, not to mention you do want to keep it numbers matching.

 

So pretty much don't screw up & go too far profiling

I already have one botched abortion where a guy raped his bolt & punched through worse than anything I have seen in pics or in person in the shop & I really don't want another.

The hole is larger than a .177 bb.

 

I'll be posting a before & after pic with tutorial when I eventually get time to repair it in the hopes that someone else picks up the bolt repair niche, because I really don't want it. It's a royal PITA for the money the AK crowd generally has to spend.

[zenman223 460]

 

 

i am going to ditch the Magnum Puck and put the stock one in with the V-Plug and run it after i remedy the BCG.

 

 

Why don't you try shooting it with a new puck before doing anything to the BCG? I would not be surprised at all if it suddenly runs 100% or pretty close to it. That would be cheaper and give you more information faster.

 

well i prob wont be able to get to the range or up north to where i shoot for sometime so i figuured id try a few of the possibilities.... plus all that cerakote on the bcg cant be all that good?

 

edit: the puck that was in there was the E-TAC Standard TwisterPuc not the Magnum

Regardless of which one it was the puck was likely the problem, the twists bleed gas around the puck. Plus the pucks have been known to mushroom and get stuck in the gas block.

I dont mind knocking their product after "Jammer" lied to me and then to everyone on this forum about me!! He's a liar and there product sucks!

Everyone should know it so people will stop buying the damn things and coming here asking whats wrong!!

 

 

When I first got my S12 and knew nothing about the gun or the gas system I bought one too!

[12GH34T 0]

Ditch the Twister.

I don't want to knock another business's product, but just trust me. It's a poor design.

It lacks its high pressure piston grooves.

 

Use a course dremel abrasive buff & take the coating off of your carrier rails & out of the chamber & barrel hood if it's there.

 

Also, although I'm always looking to buy spare bolts & carriers, there's none out there & if there were it'd be hit & miss if another bolt would just fit right in & work inb your gun, not to mention you do want to keep it numbers matching.

 

So pretty much don't screw up & go too far profiling

I already have one botched abortion where a guy raped his bolt & punched through worse than anything I have seen in pics or in person in the shop & I really don't want another.

The hole is larger than a .177 bb.

 

I'll be posting a before & after pic with tutorial when I eventually get time to repair it in the hopes that someone else picks up the bolt repair niche, because I really don't want it. It's a royal PITA for the money the AK crowd generally has to spend.

 

i went ahead and polished the bottom of the bolt carrier and didnt touch the bolt itself yet.... like DLT told me, i tried his test before removing the cerakote from the bottom of the bolt.... not the bolt seems to be alot smoother and have less contact/friction with the rails/receiver/etc. there was also a little bit of cerakote where the bolt contacts the receiver, i removed some of that as well.... ill take pics of the bolt carrier this afternoon to make sure i didnt remove too much..... i also put the stock puc back in but kept the V-plug.....i also cleaned the gas tube out really well as it seemed to be a little dirty...... i appreciate it gents!

 

i get the keeping the same #'s but i just would feel better having a spare lying around?

[evlblkwpnz 3,418]

Ditch the Twister.

I don't want to knock another business's product, but just trust me. It's a poor design.

It lacks its high pressure piston grooves.

 

Use a course dremel abrasive buff & take the coating off of your carrier rails & out of the chamber & barrel hood if it's there.

 

Also, although I'm always looking to buy spare bolts & carriers, there's none out there & if there were it'd be hit & miss if another bolt would just fit right in & work inb your gun, not to mention you do want to keep it numbers matching.

 

So pretty much don't screw up & go too far profiling

I already have one botched abortion where a guy raped his bolt & punched through worse than anything I have seen in pics or in person in the shop & I really don't want another.

The hole is larger than a .177 bb.

 

I'll be posting a before & after pic with tutorial when I eventually get time to repair it in the hopes that someone else picks up the bolt repair niche, because I really don't want it. It's a royal PITA for the money the AK crowd generally has to spend.

 

i went ahead and polished the bottom of the bolt carrier and didnt touch the bolt itself yet.... like DLT told me, i tried his test before removing the cerakote from the bottom of the bolt.... not the bolt seems to be alot smoother and have less contact/friction with the rails/receiver/etc. there was also a little bit of cerakote where the bolt contacts the receiver, i removed some of that as well.... ill take pics of the bolt carrier this afternoon to make sure i didnt remove too much..... i also put the stock puc back in but kept the V-plug.....i also cleaned the gas tube out really well as it seemed to be a little dirty...... i appreciate it gents!

 

i get the keeping the same #'s but i just would feel better having a spare lying around?

The only way you will get spares will be to buy another S12. It is possible that some poor soul may FUBAR their S12 and sell off the remaining parts, but very unlikely.

 

From what I am reading here about the Cerakote, you will likely see some improvement. However, there is no substitute for friction reduction and introducing more gas into the system. These weapons run and feel completely different when they have been refined and there are many companies here who's services will offer a noticeable improvement to your weapon, if you do not feel comfortable doing it yourself. Another option is to find a member in your area who will help or give you some instruction while leaning back drinking a few beers that you bought. Of course, if people do not know where you are, they probably won't realize that they are close and could lend a hand with it. Whatever happens, don't give up. These weapons are very rewarding once you give them some proper attention in the right areas.

[12GH34T 0]

i have to say that after removing the cerakote from the bottom of the bolt and contact surfaces on the receiver, the bolt cycles ALOT more smoothly.....i put the stock puck back in....ill run it asap and see what happens

 

Removed CeraKote from bottom of BC.... needs a polish (i ran out of compound)

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 1, 2011 by S3M1-4UT0 BURP

[PA Shooter 7]

I'm still curious if the stock puck fixed this... I would have to assume so though.

[evlblkwpnz 3,418]

Remove the Cerakote from the red areas.

 

Where the bolt goes inside the carrier, where the carrier moves on the rails (where the red arrow is too), and where the bolt rotates in the carrier for lockup.

 

 

If you want to reprofile the bottom on the carrier, leave the front angle alone, leave 1/2"-5/8" of flat on the bottom (see blue box), and elongate the rear angled surface to give you the 1/2"-5/8" of flat (see yellow lines).