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I need some help. I have a Saiga 12 SBS. Just got it back after a long wait. I am still having ejecting issues after about 200 rounds. it seems like there is not enough gas generated to bring back the bolt for complete ejection. i have tried this with mags and with one shell only mag free. Mags (5 round factory) (10 round pro mag). Pro mag sprayed wd 40 n filed back for better fit gun smith did this. I sent the tromix expert Tony my concerns earlier in an email, an used the ammo he suggested AA Sport. Gun worked okay on factory mag. then stoped. i went and bought a tac 47 auto plug and a low recoil spring to also try to solve the solution. Still no results. Gun seems to be under gassed or something. The guy who built the gun does not understand what is happing as neither does myself. This problem is not with just one gun it is with 2 SBS build the same. Does anyone have and ideas for what else i can try to have this gun shooting great as all videos i see. i believe a pauly guy told me just shoot is once i got it back about 7 months ago. i followed his advice to the T.Just need some info before i take it back to the gunsmith. Any ideas or help please or links i have not descovered yet. Thanks

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Well, I'm not an expert, but I saw a clip of an S-12 on youtube once.   A few things come to mind when I look at that gun.   First, it looks like a full length gas system SBS. Most people who ma

$1600 ??? For a hackjob ??   Jesus, I'm not a business member yet.

I would like to add another forum business member to that list. Lone Star Arms I had a similar problem as the OP did with an S12 that I purchased. The gun was a total nightmare, FTE after FTE. I s

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The guy who built the gun does not understand what is happing

 

that right there is your problem..

 

unfortunately after a lot of debate I have decided against a build as short as yours because of exactly what is happening to you.. the gas system has to be just right or the gun is not going to cycle properly.. I hate to make such a costly suggestion.. but I would reach out to a shop that DOES know what they are doing... and see how much they will charge you to take a look at it..

 

since each gun is different.. what has worked for this person.. or that person.. might not work for you..

 

how short is the barrel?

Edited by vladtepes
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The barrel is 8". He said he didnt know because it has never happened before, he has built a lot of them 50+ just like this an said they are supposed to run like a scolded dog. But its not happing yet. He stands behind all his work and will warrenty everything. he just couldnt understand cause he thought it was all good. i went to him last week and he too 1000th of the puck. but still no results after shooting today. i have seen them run fine at that length so i know that have to work. seems like he knew to open the port holes at 90 degrees instead of 3 at 45. guess ill just keep shooting till something happends hahah

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From the sound of it, you may end up worse off by sending it back. The only thing worse than someone fucking up your weapon is.... letting them do it twice. Where are you?

 

From the pic, it appears that your gas system is untouched and the barrel looks much longer than 8", more like 12". Are my eyes playing tricks on me?

Edited by evlblkwpnz
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did he shorten the gas system?

 

apparently if it is only an 8in gun.. the gas system should be shortened.. again I don't know shit about this.. as I have not done it.. but I would think chopping that thing that short would require some pretty substantial work to get it to cycle correctly.. MORE than just adjust gas ports..

 

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?/topic/38318-sbs-technical-info-thread/

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nope he cut it of right after gas system.

yea its 8' thats what my atf form 4 paper specifies. the flash hider is treaded. gas work he drilled that big hole that he said is manditory once you go that short. i am in huntsville texas. i found a guy today in spring that tac 47 sent me to and he seemed pretty knowledgable. so i might have him take a look at it. what do yawl think its not getting enough gas for. i figured the hole would make sure it got plenty. but i am just learning by reading everything. machanics of it seem simple.

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nope he cut it of right after gas system.

yea its 8' thats what my atf form 4 paper specifies. the flash hider is treaded. gas work he drilled that big hole that he said is manditory once you go that short. i am in huntsville texas. i found a guy today in spring that tac 47 sent me to and he seemed pretty knowledgable. so i might have him take a look at it. what do yawl think its not getting enough gas for. i figured the hole would make sure it got plenty. but i am just learning by reading everything. machanics of it seem simple.

 

 

as far as that thread I linked.. you are not even close..

if 12 MIGHT require a shortened gas system.. I am going to go out on a limb and assume that 8 is definitely going to need a shortened gas system.. I actually JUST was asking about this recently on here and got a lot of really good info..

 

drilling a giant hole in the barrel is not right.. I assume because the barrel is so short.. there is not enough pressure on the gas system to cycle it correctly.. the reason you push the system back is because there will be more pressure there.. thus enabling the gun to cycle..

 

I assume the gas system is moved back because if you are right at the muzzle of the gun.. and the gas has the option of acting on that tiny ass hole.. OR going out the muzzle.. it is going to bleed out the muzzle before it can adequately pressurize the gas system.. that being why you need to move the gas system back..

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yeah thats an awesome link. i got some more reading on it. Thanks thats what i was looking for. it says gas port needs to b back 3.75". Is the gas port considered the hole he drilled. when i use the AA 1-1/8 oz sport clay ammo with the 5 round mag. it was cycling fine. Should i just have to run only expensive heavy ammo. i want it to run the cheap remington stuff. Thats why i bought the auto plug n low recoil spring today hoping that would solve the issues. so you think i got a bigger issue?

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Well, I'm not an expert, but I saw a clip of an S-12 on youtube once. smile.png

 

A few things come to mind when I look at that gun.

 

First, it looks like a full length gas system SBS.

Most people who make those enlarge the hole in the gas block & run 5-6 HUGE ports for a barrel so short.

I'm personally not a fan of full length gas system SBS's at all, but lets not get into that.

 

Second is the UTG quad.

They can clamp down on the gas system which is a big no-no for some S-12s.

Maybe try it without the quad.

 

Third thing that comes to mind is your optic...

Seems people running optics over the ejection port have issues at times.

 

Check out this thread; http://forum.saiga-1...-fail-to-eject/

 

I'd try it without the quad & optic first then either address the gas, or have someone shorten the gas system like they really should be so you don't need so much porting.

 

If gas does need to be added & you go that route (but seriously, have the gas system shortened instead) & need to extend the hole in the block, do so toward the muzzle so you don't render your gas plug ineffective at gas regulation by extending the hole past the point it can cover.

 

Also, only test with your factory-5.

MANY ProMag Sticks have just as many issues as the guns that need to be addressed.

Troubleshooting one system at a time is easiest.

 

Good luck, & keep us posted. beer.gif

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The front of the gas block on a factory length gas system is at ~9", so there is no way that the barrel is 8" with the factory gas block location. Measure it and let us know how long it is. If you can't get the muzzle device off, subtract the overall length of the muzzle device, then add 1". this will give you a very close estimation of the barrel length. That doesn't look like an 8" barrel.

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Cool pauly. thanks yeah the guy kind of gave me a crazy look when i decked it out like that. he was even mentioning the charging handle. i seen that on a post here about the gali style, but mine was just the bolt on. yeah i will try it like the way he gave it to me an see if it will run. thanks for the links

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i measure the barrel maybe its 10.5" paper work says 8". i never measured it until now. jerk told me 8"

That sucks. I'm sure you paid good money for it. Being an NFA item that has been registered as an 8" weapon, I wonder if the builder is obligated to make it the stated length on the form?

 

I agree with Pauly, ditch that UTG rail. They tend to bind the op rod a little with the downward pressure on the gas tube. Bad design.

 

Cool pauly. thanks yeah the guy kind of gave me a crazy look when i decked it out like that. he was even mentioning the charging handle. i seen that on a post here about the gali style, but mine was just the bolt on. yeah i will try it like the way he gave it to me an see if it will run. thanks for the links

We live and we learn. Let us know how it goes. I have a feeling that you will end up liking that drum....

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i measure the barrel maybe its 10.5" paper work says 8". i never measured it until now. jerk told me 8"

 

 

call* a lawyer.. have the asshole buy the gun back from you.. take that money and go to a reputable builder..

 

no offense.. but I think that is your BEST route.. as opposed trying to rig something that is already rigged..

 

also definitely let us know how this goes..

 

also maybe let us know WHO this is.. so others can avoid said "services" or at least bring lube if they decide to go anyway..

 

no offense to YOU of course.. since you have NOTHING to do with all the mistakes.. the sad thing is.. he did nothing difficult.. whatever he did YOU could have likely done in an afternoon in the garage..

Edited by vladtepes
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i measure the barrel maybe its 10.5" paper work says 8". i never measured it until now. jerk told me 8"

 

 

call* a lawyer.. have the asshole buy the gun back from you.. take that money and go to a reputable builder..

 

no offense.. but I think that is your BEST route.. as opposed trying to rig something that is already rigged..

 

also definitely let us know how this goes..

 

also maybe let us know WHO this is.. so others can avoid said "services" or at least bring lube if they decide to go anyway..

 

no offense to YOU of course.. since you have NOTHING to do with all the mistakes.. the sad thing is.. he did nothing difficult.. whatever he did YOU could have likely done in an afternoon in the garage..

haha right yea conversion cost $500. would have been way cooler if it ran good. tommorrow i will put it back to its original way and give u an update. ill tell you this he is in Katy texas an his name is Fred. he works out of his house just shut down his shop. yeah i may do something if i cant get it to fire right. n bring a bigger flash light so i can watch n make sure i dont get pounded agian. haha

 

i measure the barrel maybe its 10.5" paper work says 8". i never measured it until now. jerk told me 8"

That sucks. I'm sure you paid good money for it. Being an NFA item that has been registered as an 8" weapon, I wonder if the builder is obligated to make it the stated length on the form?

 

I agree with Pauly, ditch that UTG rail. They tend to bind the op rod a little with the downward pressure on the gas tube. Bad design.

 

Cool pauly. thanks yeah the guy kind of gave me a crazy look when i decked it out like that. he was even mentioning the charging handle. i seen that on a post here about the gali style, but mine was just the bolt on. yeah i will try it like the way he gave it to me an see if it will run. thanks for the links

We live and we learn. Let us know how it goes. I have a feeling that you will end up liking that drum....

yeah $500 for the conversion. i will take it off. it was kind of tough to put on there it went on tight. plus i think all the ones i see in videos dont have all the crap thats on mine. ding ding haha. yeah i am so ready for the drum to fire off. now all i got is a semi auto pump saiga. one at a time. bs haha thanks man

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Definitely not a great source of info, but if you want a good quad rail for it Cameron at Chaos makes a quad specifically for the SBS saiga. Website is chaosus.com and he is a vendor here. They don' t bite down on the gas block and interfere with the functionality of the firearm. Also, as I learned the hard way, an eotech is extremely heavy and doesn't fit with an extended charging handle. An aimpoint is much more practical since it sits higher with an elevated platform and is much more narrow. Good luck with the rest.

 

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Get rid of the fucking UTG rail and test fire it without any handguards, then go from there.

its gone tomorrow

 

Definitely not a great source of info, but if you want a good quad rail for it Cameron at Chaos makes a quad specifically for the SBS saiga. Website is chaosus.com and he is a vendor here. They don' t bite down on the gas block and interfere with the functionality of the firearm. Also, as I learned the hard way, an eotech is extremely heavy and doesn't fit with an extended charging handle. An aimpoint is much more practical since it sits higher with an elevated platform and is much more narrow. Good luck with the rest.

how about the nitrogen field siaga side mount red dots. that use the ak side scope rail. yea ill get a chaos rail for sure then

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Definitely not a great source of info,

I disagree.

 

 

but if you want a good quad rail for it Cameron at Chaos makes a quad specifically for the SBS saiga. Website is chaosus.com and he is a vendor here. They don' t bite down on the gas block and interfere with the functionality of the firearm.

See, don't discredit yourself.

That definitely is a great bit of info. 032.gif

 

 

Also, as I learned the hard way, an eotech is extremely heavy and doesn't fit with an extended charging handle. An aimpoint is much more practical since it sits higher with an elevated platform and is much more narrow. Good luck with the rest.

 

After your experience with the Eotech I got to brainstorming.

 

I can't exactly (in good conscience) put charging handles the size of tall ship's booms & mount them at periscope height.

When the quad is eventually taken off the gun by the next owner, or if the shooter changes it up, I don't want them to have a disproportionately large handle.

It'd just look funny.

 

Now, the perfect vertical charging handle system IMHO is how Tony of tromix sets his guns up.

Like this;

index-5.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

8inchLage3w.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sexy little bitch with that shortened gas system huh ChaosTrigger? (do it do it do it do it... Shorten your gas system like it's supposed to be done [/ subliminal message] )

 

 

It's the quickest setup because you just slide your hand down the top of the gun & catch the knurl, charging the weapon in a lightning fast sweeping motion.

 

I mount them this way if the customer is going to run H&K sights & I encourge people to build the guns with the sights & handles like that.

I generally mount them slightly higher & out from the receiver if people are running pistol sights.

 

For quads, I was mounting them out farther & even higher at the customer's request, but really don't like that mount as much as the smaller handles.

 

But people want to run quads & optics, so I had to brainstorm on what would work best for the application.

 

I recently acquired an Eotech clone (The larger 2-AA battery version) & side optics mount for my personal S-12. The side optics mount is pretty much like a quad as far as having stuff around the charging handle is concerned.

It's fun & I'll admit... It does make me quicker. I stick to my guns though about demanding instant access to my Iron sights if batteries were to die, or the optic broke, so the quick release is the way to go for me.

 

When practicing & testing, I found that for a right handed person holding the PG with his right hand, it's more natrual to tilt the weapon to the 10-O'clock as one charges with a vertical charger with their left hand.

 

With that in mind & wanting to get the knurl away from potential optics I wanted to do a canted version to get the knurl where I wanted it for optimal ergonomics, but with the cylindrical shapes of the vertical charging handle knurls, I was unsure how it would look canted to the side so it'd be straight when the shooter went to charge naturally tilting the weapon slightly, to about the 10-O'clock.

 

It looks great with a hollowed ball handle like this 1-off custom one I did for Goose, but I didn't know how it'd look with a cylindrical Pauly's Piston or Tromix Galil;

ballVCH001.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well, I tried it with a knurled Pauly's Piston, It looks & works great. I love it.

The cant looks aggressive & graceful at the same time

 

It's now my favorite style of mount for an extended/vertical charger.

Especially for quads.

It's conducive to left hand charging with a quad with the slight tilt, it's conducive to quicker right handed charging (for those who aren't quite so tacti-cool) & it's spaced far enough away from optics so so ergonomics are great when right hand charging as well.

Also, it looks proper when there's no quad-rail or side optics mount present.

 

Personally, I like the style more than any other for its versatility & adaptability with or without rails, for righties, or lefties, for everyone from ex-Israeli the commando who's used to vertical charging with the Galil, to the inexperienced girlfriend or 12 year old kid who's going to instinctively charge with their right hand no matter how the weapon's set up..

It's also the style of extended charging handle I use for people who are getting it so their women, children & people with a weak hand due to arthritis, tendinitis, carpel tunnel, tendon/nerve damage etc... can use their weapons more effectively.

knurledcharger004.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

knurledcharger007.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The way Nailbomb mounted his influenced the mount a bit;

NailbombCH.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Then again, there's always full strength left hand chargers with enlarged bases which allow left hand charging without even thinking about it;

Millmessedupbolt0341024x818.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And even extended left side chargers (full strength mount with enlarged base of course) so people can grip them with multiple fingers & easily charge with a weak left hand;

022.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Cool pauly. thanks yeah the guy kind of gave me a crazy look when i decked it out like that. he was even mentioning the charging handle. i seen that on a post here about the gali style, but mine was just the bolt on. yeah i will try it like the way he gave it to me an see if it will run. thanks for the links

 

Actually, the weight of the verticals I've done don't adversely affect cycling.

It may be because I always end up doing GlassBolt with them & the added performance makes up for the weight & then some, but I get many reports of performance gain despite the added weight of the charging handles.

Plus, a weld on is less weight than a bolt on.

 

You do the math, keeping in mind that you subtract weight before adding it with the weld-ons by cutting off the factory handle.

Also, there's never been a post on this forum stating that a bolt-on adversely effected cycling & it's a very good seller.

With all the borderline guns out there, I'm sure we'd have heard if there was an issue there.

007407x640.jpg006414x640.jpg005410x640.jpg010393x640.jpg008407x640.jpg

 

 

 

 

ETA; Just out of curiosity, what type of gas puc are you using? huh.png

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If the gun doesn't match the paperwork (barrel-length wise), make the dude who did the work buy it off of you. If he raises a stink, remind him that it's his ass as the maker for NFA items.

 

And then take the money you paid this clown and get on Tromix's list. I've never heard of a Tromix SBS that didn't to run like a track star on speed.

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Definitely not a great source of info,

I disagree.

 

 

but if you want a good quad rail for it Cameron at Chaos makes a quad specifically for the SBS saiga. Website is chaosus.com and he is a vendor here. They don' t bite down on the gas block and interfere with the functionality of the firearm.

See, don't discredit yourself.

That definitely is a great bit of info. 032.gif

 

 

Also, as I learned the hard way, an eotech is extremely heavy and doesn't fit with an extended charging handle. An aimpoint is much more practical since it sits higher with an elevated platform and is much more narrow. Good luck with the rest.

 

After your experience with the Eotech I got to brainstorming.

 

I can't exactly (in good conscience) put charging handles the size of tall ship's booms & mount them at periscope height.

When the quad is eventually taken off the gun by the next owner, or if the shooter changes it up, I don't want them to have a disproportionately large handle.

It'd just look funny.

 

Now, the perfect vertical charging handle system IMHO is how Tony of tromix sets his guns up.

Like this;

index-5.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

8inchLage3w.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sexy little bitch with that shortened gas system huh ChaosTrigger? (do it do it do it do it... Shorten your gas system like it's supposed to be done [/ subliminal message] )

 

 

It's the quickest setup because you just slide your hand down the top of the gun & catch the knurl, charging the weapon in a lightning fast sweeping motion.

 

I mount them this way if the customer is going to run H&K sights & I encourge people to build the guns with the sights & handles like that.

I generally mount them slightly higher & out from the receiver if people are running pistol sights.

 

For quads, I was mounting them out farther & even higher at the customer's request, but really don't like that mount as much as the smaller handles.

 

But people want to run quads & optics, so I had to brainstorm on what would work best for the application.

 

I recently acquired an Eotech clone (The larger 2-AA battery version) & side optics mount for my personal S-12. The side optics mount is pretty much like a quad as far as having stuff around the charging handle is concerned.

It's fun & I'll admit... It does make me quicker. I stick to my guns though about demanding instant access to my Iron sights if batteries were to die, or the optic broke, so the quick release is the way to go for me.

 

When practicing & testing, I found that for a right handed person holding the PG with his right hand, it's more natrual to tilt the weapon to the 10-O'clock as one charges with a vertical charger with their left hand.

 

With that in mind & wanting to get the knurl away from potential optics I wanted to do a canted version to get the knurl where I wanted it for optimal ergonomics, but with the cylindrical shapes of the vertical charging handle knurls, I was unsure how it would look canted to the side so it'd be straight when the shooter went to charge naturally tilting the weapon slightly, to about the 10-O'clock.

 

It looks great with a hollowed ball handle like this 1-off custom one I did for Goose, but I didn't know how it'd look with a cylindrical Pauly's Piston or Tromix Galil;

ballVCH001.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well, I tried it with a knurled Pauly's Piston, It looks & works great. I love it.

The cant looks aggressive & graceful at the same time

 

It's now my favorite style of mount for an extended/vertical charger.

Especially for quads.

It's conducive to left hand charging with a quad with the slight tilt, it's conducive to quicker right handed charging (for those who aren't quite so tacti-cool) & it's spaced far enough away from optics so so ergonomics are great when right hand charging as well.

Also, it looks proper when there's no quad-rail or side optics mount present.

 

Personally, I like the style more than any other for its versatility & adaptability with or without rails, for righties, or lefties, for everyone from ex-Israeli the commando who's used to vertical charging with the Galil, to the inexperienced girlfriend or 12 year old kid who's going to instinctively charge with their right hand no matter how the weapon's set up..

It's also the style of extended charging handle I use for people who are getting it so their women, children & people with a weak hand due to arthritis, tendinitis, carpel tunnel, tendon/nerve damage etc... can use their weapons more effectively.

knurledcharger004.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

knurledcharger007.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The way Nailbomb mounted his influenced the mount a bit;

NailbombCH.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Then again, there's always full strength left hand chargers with enlarged bases which allow left hand charging without even thinking about it;

Millmessedupbolt0341024x818.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And even extended left side chargers (full strength mount with enlarged base of course) so people can grip them with multiple fingers & easily charge with a weak left hand;

022.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Cool pauly. thanks yeah the guy kind of gave me a crazy look when i decked it out like that. he was even mentioning the charging handle. i seen that on a post here about the gali style, but mine was just the bolt on. yeah i will try it like the way he gave it to me an see if it will run. thanks for the links

 

Actually, the weight of the verticals I've done don't adversely affect cycling.

It may be because I always end up doing GlassBolt with them & the added performance makes up for the weight & then some, but I get many reports of performance gain despite the added weight of the charging handles.

Plus, a weld on is less weight than a bolt on.

 

You do the math, keeping in mind that you subtract weight before adding it with the weld-ons by cutting off the factory handle.

Also, there's never been a post on this forum stating that a bolt-on adversely effected cycling & it's a very good seller.

With all the borderline guns out there, I'm sure we'd have heard if there was an issue there.

007407x640.jpg006414x640.jpg005410x640.jpg010393x640.jpg008407x640.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

ETA; Just out of curiosity, what type of gas puc are you using? huh.png

 

Hey thanks for all the great info. i am running the factory puck. do you have one u recommed. i looked every where,on all sites. havnt seen nothing that grabbed me yet.

i was gonna get the gali cause it looks awesome. but a dealer at a gun sjhow informed me that with my quad rail i would b slicing up my hand an they would not sell them. but with the way u angled it its genius. and now that im scrapping that utg rail i can get one for sure.

and that sbs pic is a sexy bioocchhhh for sure. do you have pricing if todays shoot goes sour. u deffenitly helped me. all of yawl thanks

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If the gun doesn't match the paperwork (barrel-length wise), make the dude who did the work buy it off of you. If he raises a stink, remind him that it's his ass as the maker for NFA items.

 

And then take the money you paid this clown and get on Tromix's list. I've never heard of a Tromix SBS that didn't to run like a track star on speed.

 

good idea..

 

 

call* a lawyer.. have the asshole buy the gun back from you.. take that money and go to a reputable builder..

 

Who built it? should be able to fix it, no one should ever say that they cant figure it out.

 

haha right yea conversion cost $500. would have been way cooler if it ran good. tommorrow i will put it back to its original way and give u an update. ill tell you this he is in Katy texas an his name is Fred. he works out of his house just shut down his shop. yeah i may do something if i cant get it to fire right. n bring a bigger flash light so i can watch n make sure i dont get pounded agian. haha

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Who built it? should be able to fix it, no one should ever say that they cant figure it out.

Fred Patterson. i just bought 2 of your auto plug an low recoil spring yesterday from i guy you sent me to in spring i talked to you on the phone twice. small world. haha his screws all the way down an mine has a small gap to reach the 10-2 position. its that ok.

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aight took the quad rail off and used it as target practice. haha will it is cycling at times now an actually does what it needs to instead of getting choked down. just not running flawless yet. but the gas pressure issue is not really for the moment. not 100% yet, i will still mess with it i ran out of ammo. just put 75 rounds threw it.

 

Big Thanks to all of you guys for the help. as for suing the guy it might b okay cause, the tony tromix guy said he didnt like the fire n his face from the 8". so i might hold that card.

 

pauly thanks for the great info for the gali. ill let yawl know once i get it running great. hopefully today

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Who built it? should be able to fix it, no one should ever say that they cant figure it out.

The builder has already shown one of the following, if not both.... incompetence and/or dishonesty. Either of those would be enough reason for me not to allow any more work to be done by him to the weapon. Making him take it back, and refund all moneys, and compensate for the tax seems like a logical path to pursue.

 

Props to all of you with patience and the reading skills to decipher this thread.secret_smile.gif

Thanks for clearing that up for me.... I thought that I just had too many glasses of wine to comprehend.

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Who built it? should be able to fix it, no one should ever say that they cant figure it out.

Fred Patterson. i just bought 2 of your auto plug an low recoil spring yesterday from i guy you sent me to in spring i talked to you on the phone twice. small world. haha his screws all the way down an mine has a small gap to reach the 10-2 position. its that ok.

 

prolly not need to see it. you should bottom out the AP then scew it out to the first chance of detent and that should be ten and two.

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