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Calling Saiaga 12 Masters


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Well, after seeing the pics I just kinda scanned over the rest. The pics show a fullsize gas system, which means it canot be an 8" gun, since the gas system takes up over 9" of barrel.

It looks like about a 10 1/2 or 11" barrel.

I built a gun that short without shortening the gas system once, just because the customer wanted to save some coin. It would only run the hotter game loads, the 3 1/4 dram stuff. It would not run the Walmart type stuff at all.

So first, if the paperwork says 8", your builder doesn't know what he's doing, as he can't even read. Second, even at it's current length, it'll need the gas system shortened to run the cheapest ammo.

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Well, I'm not an expert, but I saw a clip of an S-12 on youtube once.   A few things come to mind when I look at that gun.   First, it looks like a full length gas system SBS. Most people who ma

$1600 ??? For a hackjob ??   Jesus, I'm not a business member yet.

I would like to add another forum business member to that list. Lone Star Arms I had a similar problem as the OP did with an S12 that I purchased. The gun was a total nightmare, FTE after FTE. I s

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I agree, just because you're seeing the possible benefits of eating the chuck steak sold to you as tenderloin doesn't mean you should settle with what you've gotten there.

 

As a rook when it comes to short barreled saigas, I can only say that It was my understanding that one large gas port is not as desireable as a number of correct sized, or slightly oversized holes. It was my understanding that the one port system get fouled faster and sometimes shot could get into the gas block (this I haven't heard of actually happening,but I though thats why they are angled and why they use multiple ports not just one bigger one)

 

 

Please do yourself and the Saiga community a favor by returning that gun for what you have into it and spending it on a quality build from a reputable builder or do it yousrself

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You already have the stamp.

Tony R., Tac-47, JT Engineering, Gunfixr, Cadiz, RJF, C&S, R&R... Are all Smiths & all have the ability to make your gun into the refined 8" SBS you were expecting.

 

Some have longer waits than others, all can make it run with a proper length gas system.

With all the broken carrier threads over the last while, I'd go that route.

A more gradual gas buildup is preferable.

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The gas system should have been shortened with a barrel that short, especially since you want to run light birdshot through it.

 

Tony Rumore

Tromix

figures. thanks i will tell the guy.

 

 

tell him.. right before you ask for a complete refund.. I hope you are not going to have him bubba the gun any more than it already has been..

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sounds to me like ol' Freddy poo gave it to you bubba style....

Hopefully the OP will not end up traumatized from this experience and develope a fear of sending things out. After multiple negative experiences sending things out, that is where I am.

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sounds to me like ol' Freddy poo gave it to you bubba style....

Hopefully the OP will not end up traumatized from this experience and develope a fear of sending things out. After multiple negative experiences sending things out, that is where I am.

Yeah it was a nice kick in the sac. Gonna bring it to tac 47 n Texas shooters today n see what's up. Hopefully I want have to pay that much more. No telling though. I will just send the next one to someone on this form.

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sounds to me like ol' Freddy poo gave it to you bubba style....

Hopefully the OP will not end up traumatized from this experience and develope a fear of sending things out. After multiple negative experiences sending things out, that is where I am.

Yeah it was a nice kick in the sac. Gonna bring it to tac 47 n Texas shooters today n see what's up. Hopefully I want have to pay that much more. No telling though. I will just send the next one to someone on this form.

TAC47 has experience building genuine 8" Saiga 12s and they should be able to correct it for you, no problem. This is one of the weirdest horror stories that I have heard and it reminds me that we have never "heard it all". Seems like the original "builder" would try to be accurate when building NFA weapons. The fact that he has shut down his shop and is doing it out of his house now may be a perfect indicator that he didn't get enough business to stay open (burnt his name by bullshitting people out of the hard earned money with his half-assery).

 

Wait a minute....

Was this done on a Form 1? If not, it is my understanding that an NFA manufacturer must have a storefront/shop in a commercially zoned area? Am I mistaken?

Edited by evlblkwpnz
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sounds to me like ol' Freddy poo gave it to you bubba style....

Hopefully the OP will not end up traumatized from this experience and develope a fear of sending things out. After multiple negative experiences sending things out, that is where I am.

Yeah it was a nice kick in the sac. Gonna bring it to tac 47 n Texas shooters today n see what's up. Hopefully I want have to pay that much more. No telling though. I will just send the next one to someone on this form.

 

I REALLY hope you don't intend to let "bubba" off the hook completely free..

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sounds to me like ol' Freddy poo gave it to you bubba style....

Hopefully the OP will not end up traumatized from this experience and develope a fear of sending things out. After multiple negative experiences sending things out, that is where I am.

Yeah it was a nice kick in the sac. Gonna bring it to tac 47 n Texas shooters today n see what's up. Hopefully I want have to pay that much more. No telling though. I will just send the next one to someone on this form.

TAC47 has experience building genuine 8" Saiga 12s and they should be able to correct it for you, no problem. This is one of the weirdest horror stories that I have heard and it reminds me that we have never "heard it all". Seems like the original "builder" would try to be accurate when building NFA weapons. The fact that he has shut down his shop and is doing it out of his house now may be a perfect indicator that he didn't get enough business to stay open (burnt his name by bullshitting people out of the hard earned money with his half-assery).

 

Wait a minute....

Was this done on a Form 1? If not, it is my understanding that an NFA manufacturer must have a storefront/shop in a commercially zoned area? Am I mistaken?

 

Not sure he had a shop for 10 yrs an while we started paper work in feburary he had a shop. Then closed it in like August. That's when the panicking started n being out some cash. Now just got a gun that needs work. Got screwed I'm sure. We got 2 guns from his ass. U figure it was a good a sale. Jerk should have just done shit right. Now the mechanism holding the bolt opens keeps flying up n the gun an keeping slide open. Pain n the ass. Gonna choke his ass this week. Haha

 

sounds to me like ol' Freddy poo gave it to you bubba style....

Hopefully the OP will not end up traumatized from this experience and develope a fear of sending things out. After multiple negative experiences sending things out, that is where I am.

Yeah it was a nice kick in the sac. Gonna bring it to tac 47 n Texas shooters today n see what's up. Hopefully I want have to pay that much more. No telling though. I will just send the next one to someone on this form.

 

I REALLY hope you don't intend to let "bubba" off the hook completely free..

 

F that guy I'll figure something out

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Is the guy Fred Patterson of "A Gun Shop" in katy texas. I brought a saiga 12 to the guy to get turned into a sbs and the same thing happened to me. I paid the guy in full and the day i went to pick it up it was a frankenstein. I had a factory forarm grip with a black pistol grip and a wood but stock that looked like it came out of a box in the attic. I told him hell no. My gun is also registered 8" but reality its 10.5". Then the new but stock he gave me broke the next day. I guess this is what you get when you spend $1600.00

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$1600 ???

For a hackjob ??

 

Jesus, I'm not charging enough.

The amazing thing about the guys out there that do hackjobs isn't the premium that they get away with charging.... the amazing thing is that they are still in business and still doing the hackjobs. I think they depend on the undisputable fact that there is indeed a sucker born every day and they just have to be fortunate enough to find that sucker. Ignorance isn't bliss.... it is expensive. It is a shame that guys like yourself have to compete with others that are not offering a service that is directly comparable to or of the same quality (or accuracy, in this case) as what you offer. I go through the same thing in my industry. My customers are usually "the informed" few that have done a lot of research before they chose a contractor.

Edited by evlblkwpnz
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$1600 ???

For a hackjob ??

 

Jesus, I'm not a business member yet. :)

Sob yep that was about my total. $500 for the conversion. Aka hackjob

 

Ouch...did that 500 include parts as well? or just labor?

I guess just to cut barrel,tapco trigger, flash hider,stock grip, move trigger forward. Jerk didn't even fill n holes from trigger movement. U know how much it cost to get gas system shortened?

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I guess just to cut barrel,tapco trigger, flash hider,stock grip, move trigger forward. Jerk didn't even fill n holes from trigger movement. U know how much it cost to get gas system shortened?

 

Umm, $XXX I'd ask that before you publicly offer your services you become a business member.

Edited by MCASSgt New River
non-business member offering services.
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I guess just to cut barrel,tapco trigger, flash hider,stock grip, move trigger forward. Jerk didn't even fill n holes from trigger movement. U know how much it cost to get gas system shortened?

 

Umm, $XXX I'd ask that before you publicly offer your services you become a business member.

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What we have here, is evidence of Hacks & Smiths.

A Smith, by definition, is a worker of metal.

 

A Hack, just hacks at shit & gets shit results.

 

A Smith would be able to put the barrel on his lathe & turn it down to make a nicely finished Short Barreled Shotgun.

 

There's about 3 or 4 Smiths that have posted in this very thread who can do that.

 

A hack, busts out his "hack-saw" & you end up with a "Sawed-Off-Shotgun".

 

Do it right. Do it now. 032.gif

 

You already have the stamp.

Tony R., Tac-47, JT Engineering, Gunfixr, Cadiz, RJF, C&S, R&R... Are all Smiths & all have the ability to make your hack-job into the refined SBS you were expecting.

 

Some have longer waits than others, all can make it run with a proper length gas system.

With all the broken carrier threads over the last while, I'd go that route.

A more gradual gas buildup is preferable.

 

I would like to add another forum business member to that list. Lone Star Arms

I had a similar problem as the OP did with an S12 that I purchased. The gun was a total nightmare, FTE after FTE. I sent it to Mike from Lone Star. Thousands of rounds later, Flawless. Not one FTE. I'd recommend Mike to anybody.

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What we have here, is evidence of Hacks & Smiths.

A Smith, by definition, is a worker of metal.

 

A Hack, just hacks at shit & gets shit results.

 

A Smith would be able to put the barrel on his lathe & turn it down to make a nicely finished Short Barreled Shotgun.

 

There's about 3 or 4 Smiths that have posted in this very thread who can do that.

 

A hack, busts out his "hack-saw" & you end up with a "Sawed-Off-Shotgun".

 

Do it right. Do it now. 032.gif

 

You already have the stamp.

Tony R., Tac-47, JT Engineering, Gunfixr, Cadiz, RJF, C&S, R&R... Are all Smiths & all have the ability to make your hack-job into the refined SBS you were expecting.

 

Some have longer waits than others, all can make it run with a proper length gas system.

With all the broken carrier threads over the last while, I'd go that route.

A more gradual gas buildup is preferable.

 

I would like to add another forum business member to that list. Lone Star Arms

I had a similar problem as the OP did with an S12 that I purchased. The gun was a total nightmare, FTE after FTE. I sent it to Mike from Lone Star. Thousands of rounds later, Flawless. Not one FTE. I'd recommend Mike to anybody.

Bad ass! 027.gif

I didn't know he's shortening gas systems & doing 8" guns now.

Sorry I left him out.

 

I was just listing those I knew here who were shortening the gas systems.

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I guess just to cut barrel,tapco trigger, flash hider,stock grip, move trigger forward. Jerk didn't even fill n holes from trigger movement. U know how much it cost to get gas system shortened?

 

Umm, $XXX I'd ask that before you publicly offer your services you become a business member.

Understandable. I call some people thanks

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I guess just to cut barrel,tapco trigger, flash hider,stock grip, move trigger forward. Jerk didn't even fill n holes from trigger movement. U know how much it cost to get gas system shortened?

 

Umm, $XXX I'd ask that before you publicly offer your services you become a business member.

 

Actually took it to a guy 45 min from my house today an he fixed some crap from the hack job. Took out the 4" bolt holding my grip on. An made it look good. Added reel heat treated springs cause the others messed up cause the hack job got them from ace hardware. He had clips holding on trigger. Put on a trigger guard with a stopper for my saftey so it does not hit the ground. An did all of this in 20 min. That jerk had my gun for 9 months. Aggghhhh

I got pounded sob

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All great info and I, and the Saiga Forum, appreciate everyone coming together to help this member. I only ask one favor from all involved here...If you are directly or indirectly offering services please be a business member. For those that are business members I extend my "virtual" hand and would like to thank you for offering your advice, comments and participation in this thread.

 

Respectfully,

MCASSgt New River

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ChaosTrigger, are you seeking some sort of reimbursement for the cost you dumped into the hack job, you seem to have a lot that would back you in seeking your money back, this is the type of stuff that shouldn't be happening and by not seeing the unprofessional garage hack gets his just deserts you in a way help keep him in operation.

 

Hope you get this straitened out, sorry if I missed a post where you may have answered this, but from my reading it seems like your excepting the loss here although you shouldn't have to.

 

Plain and simple you where sold a gun not the the specs which are even stated on the paperwork.

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ChaosTrigger, are you seeking some sort of reimbursement for the cost you dumped into the hack job, you seem to have a lot that would back you in seeking your money back, this is the type of stuff that shouldn't be happening and by not seeing the unprofessional garage hack gets his just deserts you in a way help keep him in operation.

 

Hope you get this straitened out, sorry if I missed a post where you may have answered this, but from my reading it seems like your excepting the loss here although you shouldn't have to.

 

Plain and simple you where sold a gun not the the specs which are even stated on the paperwork.

 

Yeah would like him to pay for the changes I had done. At a couple hundred already. I talked to him today n he said I have a yr warrennty on my work. Any problem let me know. It's ur gun if u take it to another smith. It's ur gun. What a dick. I'll just have to cut ties. N pay to get it fixed right. I'll try to post the crap I got fixed. So everyone will see the hack job

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I got a new trigger guard with a saftey stop.(awesome) He removed the 4"bolt holding my grip and the other one that was already getting smashed. And made it alot cleaner. also added heat treated springs and shepards hook instead of the ace hardware pins. Put a better spring on my bolt open lever, which kept getting locked in the open positon.(which the spring was so damn crooked looked like shit. he said that never happens) jerk

 

part 2

 

Crap removed. Maybe i will take it to the scrap yard n get 1 cent for it that away i got something out of this hack job.

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post-32481-0-09431500-1320980038_thumb.jpg

post-32481-0-87969500-1320980125_thumb.jpg

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It looks like about a 10 1/2 or 11" barrel.

 

That's what I was thinking. Certainly not 8". The problem with getting it fixed it that it's as much work as doing the whole job over again and will cost the same.

 

BTW, you measure it by dropping a rod down the barrel until it rests on the closed bolt face; then you at least will know what you are working with.

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It looks like about a 10 1/2 or 11" barrel.

 

That's what I was thinking. Certainly not 8". The problem with getting it fixed it that it's as much work as doing the whole job over again and will cost the same.

 

BTW, you measure it by dropping a rod down the barrel until it rests on the closed bolt face; then you at least will know what you are working with.

Great thanks for the info.

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All great info and I, and the Saiga Forum, appreciate everyone coming together to help this member. I only ask one favor from all involved here...If you are directly or indirectly offering services please be a business member. For those that are business members I extend my "virtual" hand and would like to thank you for offering your advice, comments and participation in this thread.

 

Respectfully,

MCASSgt New River

 

Sorry, I won't mention it again.

I was a business member here, but stopped for a couple reasons. One, it was getting on the expensive side, and I cannot count it on my taxes anymore. Two, I got totally screwed over by another business member here, and nobody cared.

And no, it wasn't MD Arms.

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